Peugeot 309 1.9D Death Trap Brake Discs.

[Donald64]

Whilst my current insomnia is going to see my through until dawn, I thought I'd share this:

Working for myself as a French car specialist mechanic, a seemingly mint Peugeot 309 diesel came in with persistent brake fade that several other garages couldn't fix.
They couldn't find a cure because they were seemingly bone idle.

And the consequences potentially very, very scary.

Please bear with me.
An unusually firm brake pedal, yet the pump-driven engine servo was fine.
Braking from anything above say 20mph and there was a remarkable lack of retardation.
To say the least.
A simple fix. The brake discs - unvented type - had worn to just under 3mm thick. The thinnest clapped out discs I've ever come across.

The failure of the other workshops to spot this was laziness. Viewed through the front wheel slots and you could see lovely shiny discs.
But the a proper inspection revealed 2xdiscs worn to hardly any thicker than a 45rpm single.
The thin discs couldn't get rid of the heat. The pad material was operating on literally red-hot discs and rapidly the temperature of the parts soared.

My local motor factor was selling complete rear brake assemblies for this car, all mounted on new back plates for a bargain $16 both sides.
Pads/discs for under $19. Bendix too!

New pads, discs and fluid change: everything like new and photographic evidence for the customer.

He was happy. I was even happier.
47 years on and I still love my job.

 

[Donald64]

Whilst my current insomnia is going to see me through until dawn, I thought I'd share this:

Working for myself as a French car specialist mechanic, a seemingly mint Peugeot 309 diesel came in with persistent brake fade that several other garages couldn't fix.
They couldn't find a cure because they were seemingly bone idle.

And the consequences of this were potentially very, very scary.

Please bear with me.

An unusually firm brake pedal, yet the engine driven brake servo pump was fine.
Braking from anything above say 20mph and there was a remarkable lack of retardation.
To say the least.
A simple fix. The brake discs - unvented type - had worn to just under 3mm thick. The thinnest clapped out discs I've ever come across.

The failure of the other workshops to spot this was laziness. Viewed through the front wheel slots and you could see lovely shiny discs.
But the a proper inspection revealed 2xdiscs worn to hardly any thicker than a 45rpm single.
The thin discs couldn't get rid of the heat. The pad material was operating on literally red-hot discs and rapidly the temperature of the parts soared.

My local motor factor was selling complete rear brake assemblies for this car, all mounted on new back plates for a bargain $16 both sides.
Pads/discs for under $19. Bendix too!

New pads, discs and fluid change: everything like new and photographic evidence for the customer.

He was happy. I was even happier.
47 years on and I still love my job.

 

[hemitom]

How did they not warp or just break apart .

 

[Donald64]

How did they not warp or just break apart .

Because he only drove very short journeys and also drove like a kitten.
He was very lucky.
More typical usage and warping would definitely follow. Then the inevitable catastrophic failure?
The Citroën C15 van had the sameish system. I've seen both discs on these shear off on vehicles just a couple of years old still on their original pads owing to casting flaws.
At the same time.
Citroën UK responded: we thought they cured this ages ago.
Life was seemingly cheaper in the eighties.
The first batch of Citroën AX to come to the UK and a couple of cars had bolts on the steering rack fail. A scary amount of free play ensued.
Same response: we thought they'd cured that one...

 

[hemitom]

yes he was very lucky could have been fatal in a higher speed emergency stop .
How other shops could miss this is unbelievable laziness is being kind I lean to the side of stupid !
pulling a wheel and looking this would have been obvious.
Good on you for doing it right.

 

[Donald64]

Because he was very lucky. Short journeys to the local shops and the fact he drove like a kitten.
More typical usage and, sure they're going to warp. An emergency brake and those discs would've disintegrated.
A Mazda pickup driver I used to know 'repaired' his worn out track rod end with a (stout) elastic band to prevent it from popping out!
A taxi driver's Datsun failed the MOT test on brake pipe corrosion.
An aerosol of silver paint and the offer of a free can of cold Coke didn't result in a 'Pass'.

Any other stories of folk taking economy motoring a bit too far?

My cats will want their breakfast in around 90 minutes. No sleep for me tonight...

 

[slacktide_bitog]

A professional shop couldn't be bothered to pull the wheel and look in the caliper inspection window, which might have revealed the too-thin rotors

Glad you replaced them after the other shop didn't.

 

[Donald64]

yes he was very lucky could have been fatal.

Apart from that, don't these shops like making money?
A very simple repair, with excellent results.
There are many, many good garages. Being a decent mechanic is a prerequisite if you are going to work for yourself. Vehicles are nowadays so fragile, overcomplicated and in some cases a downright mechanical disaster.
Land-rover?

Both the US and UK governments have considered a super-complaint against the marque.

The road to my local school has a minor incline immediately following a sharp left turn.
Two Range Rover TDV6 have broken down at the same spot.
Both with a broken crankshaft.
Maybe the 'just right' scenario?
Land Rover Did modify the Ford design, to lighten the component, but allegedly didn't do it right.

But broken crankshafts?

I can only recall three other cars with this happening. In 47 years.
Heavens above

 

[edyvw]

Whilst my current insomnia is going to see my through until dawn, I thought I'd share this:

Working for myself as a French car specialist mechanic, a seemingly mint Peugeot 309 diesel came in with persistent brake fade that several other garages couldn't fix.
They couldn't find a cure because they were seemingly bone idle.

And the consequences potentially very, very scary.

Please bear with me.
An unusually firm brake pedal, yet the pump-driven engine servo was fine.
Braking from anything above say 20mph and there was a remarkable lack of retardation.
To say the least.
A simple fix. The brake discs - unvented type - had worn to just under 3mm thick. The thinnest clapped out discs I've ever come across.

The failure of the other workshops to spot this was laziness. Viewed through the front wheel slots and you could see lovely shiny discs.
But the a proper inspection revealed 2xdiscs worn to hardly any thicker than a 45rpm single.
The thin discs couldn't get rid of the heat. The pad material was operating on literally red-hot discs and rapidly the temperature of the parts soared.

My local motor factor was selling complete rear brake assemblies for this car, all mounted on new back plates for a bargain $16 both sides.
Pads/discs for under $19. Bendix too!

New pads, discs and fluid change: everything like new and photographic evidence for the customer.

He was happy. I was even happier.
47 years on and I still love my job.

Saw that, if not thinner on the FIAT Tipo. Several of us were in the garage my friend owned and gathered around rotors, thinking, "How are they still alive?" My friend sees it and asks the guy who took off rotors: "Are these standard on TIPO? Because if they are, just to know to downshift and run away if I see TIPO in the rearview mirror."

 

[Donald]

Never understood why people love their Pegueot cars but they do. Never owned one.

People love their Jeeps (and I have owned 2) even though bottom of the barrel for reliability.

 

[Opelman]

Wow, good catch on that. How many km on the car to wear the rotors down so far? Is it possible that your kitten like driver is riding the brakes? I miss my 505TD, very nice driving car.