2016 Volvo parasitic drain

Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
Sorry this is long but it is a long story.

In March 2019 I bought a low mileage (20,000 miles) certified pre-owned Volvo V60. One lesson I learned is never buy a CPO car that went through the CPO inspection 6 months earlier and then was driven 1,000 miles by an employee at the dealer.

Yep I am a car guy and know how to catch these dealer service people in their pranks and I foolishly should have pushed for more when I bought the car. But it was a fun car to drive and I liked it - we all know what can happen with love at first site.

The tires were barely passable at the CPO inspection and then driven another 1,000 miles --- I should have said new tires or I walk.

Nine months later low battery light comes on and of course I went to the dealer because the car has a lot of warranty remaining. They found a fault and fixed it. They found a Sirius radio update and fixed it (it could be a battery drain). Now why that wasn't done at the CPO inspection is beyond me because the CPO sheet says "all updated preformed". They did want to charge me for that radio update but I squawked. They trickle charged the battery, gave it a battery is good - 12.06 and out the door. The low battery light stayed off until this september.

The light comes on if the car sits longer than a day without driving and goes off as soon as the car starts. But Volvo is involved in a Class Action suit about battery drain so back to the dealer.

Dealer says - "service tech says battery light not illuminated". Well duh I told them the car has to sit and I did already drive it to the dealer that day. Did I say I opened a case with Volvo USA?

So I get an e-mail from the dealer service department saying that nothing is wrong but they will trickle charge for the day.
"Battery Trickle Charger
Battery good/ recharge 11.93 volts 481 CCA with a 10mA draw."

From all the charts a 12.06 volt battery (January 2020 reading) is not what ya call a good battery at that time. Now the voltage is 11.93 and they still say good? This was all done in tehir shop not at zero degrees temp. My manual says the minimum batter is 520 CCA.

Then I get a call that they want to trickle charge all night and I can pick up the car on Saturday. Saturday arrives and I get another call from the dealer. Dealer says that Volvo USA want them (dealer) to do more tests before releasing the car, I can pick up on Monday. Ok...test away.


The original CPO inspection report reads "Battery (condition/fluid/level/load test - record readings _______)" but there is no recorded reading so I have no idea of the battery voltage at the time of the CPO inspection?

Now my wife during these times of Covid might not go anywhere on Saturday or Sunday but on Monday when we get in and see a low battery warning, to me is not normal. Our Honda CRV sits a lot longer and we never see any battery issues.

If there was a parasitic drain for a long time it may have gone un-noticed while the employee drove the car 1,000 miles as his daily commute car. It may have been discharging at night but the daily recharge wasn't low enough to illuminate the light. But still that long parasitic discharge-recharge cycle most likely created an early demise for the battery.

My thought is that the dealer just wants to hand the car to the lowest end tech who puts it on the trickle charger and that makes everything well for X amount of months. Then when my warranty is out they can sell me on their $300 batter install. I know that number because when I was in for my State inspection the guy in front of me was pay --- you got it -- $300 for a new battery.

I won't tell you how they tried to make me pay for a $280 front brake pad job. When in reality there was only one inner pad that was badly worn. That one inner pad was only seen because I pulled the front wheels. And wouldn't you know it, there was a TSB describing right, front, premature inner brake pad wear. And the TSB came out in 2018 long before I owned the car. Upon showing them the TSB and what needs to be fixed to stop the premature wear, they agreed and fixed it (no charge). All the other pads were almost new.

So I don't know that buying a CPO car is worth the extra expense and I feel bad for people who can't pull the wheels to look at brake pads, don't know anything about cars. I've also caught the dealer not doing an extended warranty PCV job on another Volvo. When I got home I checked their work, I squeezed the PCV tube (Volvo has a system) and it was hard as a rock. Called the dealer and said, you didn't change. They said we only change if needed. I said it is rock hard, Volvo USA is paying you for a new one. There was also intake O rings included but couldn't check. They also used a zip-tie instead of a hose clap.

They said bring the car back we will fix it. When I picked it up they had a $50 gift card waiting for me. So I don't exactly have the greatest trust in them. :(

Does this chart still hold true?

Battery Voltage and State of Charge (at 80 degrees F):
(NOTE: Subtract 0.024 volts for every 10 degree F drop in temperature)

12.66v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%
 
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Messages
15,879
Location
NE,Ohio
i dont understand why they are "trickle charging" it.. put it on a 10amp smart charger all day?
 

urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
i dont understand why they are "trickle charging" it.. put it on a 10amp smart charger all day?
Ya would think that a dealer would have a smart charger. I have a good charger 6V / 12 V with 2a and 10a charging. With start boost etc, auto shut off and reverse attachment protection. But it isn't one of the smart chargers.

After all the battery has been through I bet it has a lot of sulfication.

About 6 weeks ago I put the battery on a 2a charge, it took hours for the green charged light to come on. It lasted about 4 weeks until I started to see the low battery light again at the days first start. There are times during the day that I'll stop somewhere, come back into the car and see the low batt warning.
 
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urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
It seems that Volvo knows there is a problem but is unwilling to fix it. It is easier to give the dealer a profit center to sell $300 battery installs.

I've put all my ducks in a row and filed a complaint with Volvo USA and they know, that I know the class action is still active. Who knows, Vovo USA doesn't know but may I'd be the one more that might just make enough people to reach full class action status. So Volvo USA seems to be on the case here with making the dealer do more tests.

Personally I think there is an electrical engineering problem and the electronics don't go to sleep at night as it should do.

The big question is can they fix it?
 
Last edited:
Messages
25,971
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Sorry this is long but it is a long story.

In March 2019 I bought a low mileage (20,000 miles) certified pre-owned Volvo V60. One lesson I learned is never buy a CPO car that went through the CPO inspection 6 months earlier and then was driven 1,000 miles by an employee at the dealer.

Yep I am a car guy and know how to catch these dealer service people in their pranks and I foolishly should have pushed for more when I bought the car. But it was a fun car to drive and I liked it - we all know what can happen with love at first site.

The tires were barely passable at the CPO inspection and then driven another 1,000 miles --- I should have said new tires or I walk.

Nine months later low battery light comes on and of course I went to the dealer because the car has a lot of warranty remaining. They found a fault and fixed it. They found a Sirius radio update and fixed it (it could be a battery drain). Now why that wasn't done at the CPO inspection is beyond me because the CPO sheet says "all updated preformed". They did want to charge me for that radio update but I squawked. They trickle charged the battery, gave it a battery is good - 12.06 and out the door. The low battery light stayed off until this september.

The light comes on if the car sits longer than a day without driving and goes off as soon as the car starts. But Volvo is involved in a Class Action suit about battery drain so back to the dealer.

Dealer says - "service tech says battery light not illuminated". Well duh I told them the car has to sit and I did already drive it to the dealer that day. Did I say I opened a case with Volvo USA?

So I get an e-mail from the dealer service department saying that nothing is wrong but they will trickle charge for the day.
"Battery Trickle Charger
Battery good/ recharge 11.93 volts 481 CCA with a 10mA draw."

From all the charts a 12.06 volt battery (January 2020 reading) is not what ya call a good battery at that time. Now the voltage is 11.93 and they still say good? This was all done in tehir shop not at zero degrees temp. My manual says the minimum batter is 520 CCA.

Then I get a call that they want to trickle charge all night and I can pick up the car on Saturday. Saturday arrives and I get another call from the dealer. Dealer says that Volvo USA want them (dealer) to do more tests before releasing the car, I can pick up on Monday. Ok...test away.


The original CPO inspection report reads "Battery (condition/fluid/level/load test - record readings _______)" but there is no recorded reading so I have no idea of the battery voltage at the time of the CPO inspection?

Now my wife during these times of Covid might not go anywhere on Saturday or Sunday but on Monday when we get in and see a low battery warning, to me is not normal. Our Honda CRV sits a lot longer and we never see any battery issues.

If there was a parasitic drain for a long time it may have gone un-noticed while the employee drove the car 1,000 miles as his daily commute car. It may have been discharging at night but the daily recharge wasn't low enough to illuminate the light. But still that long parasitic discharge-recharge cycle most likely created an early demise for the battery.

My thought is that the dealer just wants to hand the car to the lowest end tech who puts it on the trickle charger and that makes everything well for X amount of months. Then when my warranty is out they can sell me on their $300 batter install. I know that number because when I was in for my State inspection the guy in front of me was pay --- you got it -- $300 for a new battery.

I won't tell you how they tried to make me pay for a $280 front brake pad job. When in reality there was only one inner pad that was badly worn. That one inner pad was only seen because I pulled the front wheels. And wouldn't you know it, there was a TSB describing right, front, premature inner brake pad wear. And the TSB came out in 2018 long before I owned the car. Upon showing them the TSB and what needs to be fixed to stop the premature wear, they agreed and fixed it (no charge). All the other pads were almost new.

So I don't know that buying a CPO car is worth the extra expense and I feel bad for people who can't pull the wheels to look at brake pads, don't know anything about cars. I've also caught the dealer not doing an extended warranty PCV job on another Volvo. When I got home I checked their work, I squeezed the PCV tube (Volvo has a system) and it was hard as a rock. Called the dealer and said, you didn't change. They said we only change if needed. I said it is rock hard, Volvo USA is paying you for a new one. There was also intake O rings included but couldn't check. They also used a zip-tie instead of a hose clap.

They said bring the car back we will fix it. When I picked it up they had a $50 gift card waiting for me. So I don't exactly have the greatest trust in them. :(

Does this chart still hold true?

Battery Voltage and State of Charge (at 80 degrees F):
(NOTE: Subtract 0.024 volts for every 10 degree F drop in temperature)

12.66v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%

CPO is meaningless and worthless unless it includes some sort of iron clad warranty, the low man on the pole gets the job and they sweep it under the rug. No way are they paying an "A" mechanic to do this sort of work, the bugger goes out for a smoke then checks all the boxes, next.
Ask me how I know.
 

urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
CPO is meaningless and worthless unless it includes some sort of iron clad warranty, the low man on the pole gets the job and they sweep it under the rug. No way are they paying an "A" mechanic to do this sort of work, the bugger goes out for a smoke then checks all the boxes, next.
Ask me how I know.
That is kind of what I thought. There are boxes where the top one is checked and then a line is drawn down through the other boxes. IT was as though they didn't want to waste the time making a check mark. Notice where it says battery load and to record. Where is that record and to me it should be on the CPO report. Plus an employee drove this car 6 months and 1,000 miles after the initial report.

I have a lot of buyers remorse on this one. BTW I marked out all pertinent information about the dealer. Normally admins on sites don't like to see names when you are complaining about them.

I should have pushed for a new battery and new tires.

Plus the CPO says all updates completed. So why did I need a Sirius radio update in January to fix a known problem. The update had been out for a looooong time. So can I say there isn't a lot of trust here?

Red mark-ups on the inspection sheet were done by me.
 

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urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
It's a 5 year old battery. Just get a $55 battery from Walmart and save yourself the aggravation of dealing with the service department.
Oh if it were so easy. :)

Apparently you need to get a computer update done for a new battery. That is about $150 and can only be done with VIDA (Volvo software). And if the computer doesn't like the battery output, it will give you notification responses on the dash.

I always installed my own batteries, never quite as low priced as the $55 from Walmart but not the expensive Optima types. Apparently now we can't even install our own batteries. If that computer doesn't get re-set the alternator may not put out the correct voltage.

Now my ignorance in this is I don't know if my 2016 Volvo V60 has the battery intelligent battery sensors but I am guessing that small computer board/chip attached to the ground cable talks to the computer.

I'm thinking of getting something I've read about on other forums, the Memory Saver.


But then there are those that say don't use a memory saver. Who knew that changing a battery became such an issue?

 
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urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
Again what’s the quiescent current draw?
I don't know, the car is in the shop.

This is what the shop sent last Friday and it is the best info I can give at this time.

Battery Trickle Charger: The low
battery light is not on at the time of
service, battery test good/recharge
11.93V 481CCA, with a 10mA draw.
 

urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
What the heck? Three hours ago I called the service department and they said they are still running tests. I just got a test that later today they will let me know what they found. How hard can this be?

This is three days they've had the car.
 
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Messages
25,971
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
One of a few things have happened, they are all scratching their backsides because they don't have clue what is wrong or how to fix it, they found something and still have no idea how to fix it, the guy that does know how to fix it is self quarantining in some hotel in parts unknown or they didn't get to it yet, take your pick.
 

urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
What am I to believe?

The service guy just called at 5 pm EST. He said that they are still working with Volvo USA to do tests to leave no stone un-turned. They had it all day Friday, half the day Saturday (shop only works 4 hours) and all day today on Monday.

He says the car was “attached” all weekend and showed no drain. I asked have you a clue? He said no and they have not seen the low battery light.

So the easiest thing would have been to place a new battery in the car and say … see how it goes. Instead they are spending a lot of shop time on what ---- or are they spending shop time?

Is Volvo USA really sending them ideas to check so that no stone is un-turned?

I’m starting to smell stinky fish here or maybe there was something, a something that needed a big part ordered?

This has turned very, very strange. Seriously why would they spend hundreds of dollars of shop time when they:

  1. Tell me there is no low batt light
  2. Tell me the battery is good
  3. Tell me there was no drain
What is going on???
 
Messages
25,971
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
What am I to believe?

The service guy just called at 5 pm EST. He said that they are still working with Volvo USA to do tests to leave no stone un-turned. They had it all day Friday, half the day Saturday (shop only works 4 hours) and all day today on Monday.

He says the car was “attached” all weekend and showed no drain. I asked have you a clue? He said no and they have not seen the low battery light.

So the easiest thing would have been to place a new battery in the car and say … see how it goes. Instead they are spending a lot of shop time on what ---- or are they spending shop time?

Is Volvo USA really sending them ideas to check so that no stone is un-turned?

I’m starting to smell stinky fish here or maybe there was something, a something that needed a big part ordered?

This has turned very, very strange. Seriously why would they spend hundreds of dollars of shop time when they:

  1. Tell me there is no low batt light
  2. Tell me the battery is good
  3. Tell me there was no drain
What is going on???

No stone unturned my foot, the first thing they should have done when their inital attempt failed is put a new battery in that car. It isn't being worked on and they are not spending hundreds on it, it has a charger on it sitting there. Tell them you want a new battery installed if they balk call Volvo. Worst comes to worst tell them thats fine you will post their shenanigans all over the internet (do this as a last resort only).
 
Messages
17,284
Location
Upper Midwest
Yes a new battery but the 1.1 thing they should have done is to determine the quiescent current draw compared to the FSM values. If you don't have that then you have no idea whether the car is even drawing too much current when off, which is the title of this thread.
 

urdrwho

Thread starter
Messages
64
Location
PA, USA
Yes a new battery but the 1.1 thing they should have done is to determine the quiescent current draw compared to the FSM values. If you don't have that then you have no idea whether the car is even drawing too much current when off, which is the title of this thread.
True but something draws down the battery. I'll place it on my charger and it will be good for a month.

I spent $28,000 with the dealer and 8 months later a battery problem. If it is a bad battery just for goodwill ya think they would have just put a new battery in and said goodbye. In the past I've used this dealer for other Volvo parts and shop when needed.

I have this that they sent last Friday --

"Battery Trickle Charger: The low
battery light is not on at the time of
service, battery test good/recharge
11.93V 481CCA, with a 10mA draw.
Vehicle passed alternator quick test.
NPF, will connect charger the rest of
the day."

Although in the past on an extended warranty for my V50 I caught them not doing the entire job --

From 2016 e-mail to the dealer ---

"Yesterday the dealer completed the Extended Warranty 205 - PCV Oil Trap and Vent job. I am a 99% DIY guy and rarely use the dealer. So I checked their work. One thing that I saw was that they used a zip tie to attach the upper hose to the PCV housing. I can push/ rotate the zip tie.

I am also not 100% sure that they installed the new upper vent hose. It is dusty as though it has been on the car for a while. I tried to squeeze the hose and was not able to squeeze it.

The invoice contains the Vent hose, the intake gaskets, the PCV housing, etc. Since the housing can be replace without removing the upper intake, I believe that is what they did to the car. Therefore the hose and intake gaskets were being billed to Volvo N.A. and were never installed. That means several things:

1. There was a mistake on the invoice
2. The tech made a mistake and didn't install everything
4. There was no mistake on the invoice or by the tech. It was done in an attempt to make more labor and more money on parts.

The service manager never, ever said....the tech already installed those parts and once I called him on it he was immediately ready to install the parts. I wonder if the average person even knows where the PCV vent hose is located let alone check to see if a new one was installed."

Dealer email response to me --- BTW a cable tie is NOT what the repaid calls for and they installed a real clamp.

"The hose for the PCV system would be replaced as needed as part of this repair and a cable tie is what the repair calls for to secure the hose to the breather box. By the looks of your picture the hose was not replaced. If you would like the hose replaced we would be happy to do so at no charge to you."


Well hell yeah I wanted it to be done because next year when that hose breaks you'll be charge me to fix it. Volvo USA is paying you now to fix it. How many people would have even checked that hose? I caught them and when I picked up my car they had a $50 gift card waiting for me.

So you see I already have a history of lack of trust with them.
 
Messages
25,971
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
A battery nearing EOL which can be much shorter than people think with some vehicles will drain down sometimes in a very short period. A 10mA drain is not pulling a good battery down in a few days or a week.
10mA seems low for that car I would expect 60-100mA. I would expect them to arm the anti theft system, to do this they would probably have to feed the test leads to outside as it wont arm with the hood open.

Some cars that are not going to be driven should have the doors locked with the key not the remote so the system does not arm, it can draw quite a bit of current armed and idle. Just some thoughts.
 
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