Thoughts on the 2012 Honda Civic?

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Yeah, if I was going to get another Compace to replace my 2011 Focus, I'd be looking at the Cruze and '12 Focus.

Dart ... eh ... everyone here knows what I think of Chrysler


Technically it's more of a Fiat, specifically an Alfa Romeo Giulietta.

Pretty exciting! We get the opportunity to buy an "Alfa Romeo" in the USA. One does wonder how much of the Alfa DNA made the transition to Dodge though.

Still haven't driven one.

I do like the Cruze. Even the LS model with the 1.8. I like that you actually get a few models with a manual transmission in stock at the dealer.
If you don't want a white base model Focus with the plastic wheel covers, seems like you have to get the horrid DCT from dealer stock.


No special order needed for my Cruze with the 1.4T and manual transmission. It was picked out of dealer stock.

The Civic is a solid, if dated, choice. Can't wait to see what Honda has for 2013.


That's what I'm saying. Last time I checked, I had to go to Oklahoma City to get the 1.4T with manual, Pioneer stereo and sunroof. There weren't any here. But there were plenty of Ecos and LSes and even a few LTs with a manual.

The only Focus in the area with a manual was a white Focus S with plastic wheel covers that looked like they were sourced from JC Whitney.

I hope that there are as many Darts with manual as there were Cruzes.

 

[Bamaro]

Here is what Consumer Reports had to say about it:
Quote:
So what happened? The new Civic feels insubstantial with a cheap interior. You don’t get much feature content for the $19,405 that our Civic LX automatic costs, either. That’s a problem given the high bar set in this class by the new-to-market Chevrolet Cruze, the redesigned-for-2012 Ford Focus, and the redesigned-for-2011 Hyundai Elantra.

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/201...-recommend.html

 

[rjundi]

The Acura ILX is what the Civic could/should be except for the silly price on Acura. I rode in one and its quite rich/nice and competent car that is essentially 2012 Civic make over.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I like the ILX a lot. I also like Acura's refresh on the RDX. I'm excited to see what they have in store for a new TL and MDX. Acura is checking many of the right boxes for me right now.

 

[cptbarkey]

honda has definitely lost their way across their entire product line.

disappointment galore:

Civic - everybody has already touched on this one
Insight - pointless hybrid with sub par mpg performance
Odyssey - way too expensive for the value (lack of)
Ridgeline - too expensive for a unibody truck with barely any capacity.
Accord - cheap and outclassed.
Fit - mpg should be better
Pilot - too expensive for the value.
Crosstour - Honda Aztek.

The one vehicle that i thought was great was the Element, and its gone. the CR-V is OK, but again a bit expensive. There is a reason Hyundai and Kia is doing so well, its because they outdid Honda all around.

 

[AmericaWestCMH]

I like my 2012. It's not sporty or luxurious, but that's not what I'm after. The 45+ mpg I'm getting is what matters to me.

 

[rjundi]

When you finally sell the car it will be an easy task with (Civic and Accords). Even the hot hits now IMHO like Hyundai/Kia, Chevy Cruze etc won't be easy at top dollar like Honda/Toyota sedans.

 

[kkreit01]

I'm sure it's not a terrible, or even poor car, but it's no longer near the top in the segment. I wouldn't even consider one. I bet they aren't providing many incentives either -- as Honda doesn't believe in them.

 

[BrianWC]

Like Scott I have a 2012 Si. Love it. Yes I have 3 Hondas so flame away but I really did look at a lot of different cars-ask Critic.

I've been very surprised by mine. This is the first Honda I've owned (including my 09 Fit Sport) where I can achieve stated highway mileage as my overall mpg with absolutely no effort at all. I got some crazy mpg with the Fit but I had to hypermile to do it. With the Si I can make trips up into the triple digits and still knock back 32 mpg no worries, with a/c blaring the whole time. Quietness-wise, it's quieter than my Fit unless I'm at full throttle. About all I can compare it to.

Regarding the changes for 2013, they are not going to be big. Word leaking out so far is revised interior plastics to address those complaints. Also the new DI CVT 4 cyl will supposedly appear in 2014...

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
honda has definitely lost their way across their entire product line.

disappointment galore:

Civic - everybody has already touched on this one
Insight - pointless hybrid with sub par mpg performance
Odyssey - way too expensive for the value (lack of)
Ridgeline - too expensive for a unibody truck with barely any capacity.
Accord - cheap and outclassed.
Fit - mpg should be better
Pilot - too expensive for the value.
Crosstour - Honda Aztek.

The one vehicle that i thought was great was the Element, and its gone. the CR-V is OK, but again a bit expensive. There is a reason Hyundai and Kia is doing so well, its because they outdid Honda all around.





You pretty much summed up their lineup, except I think the Fit is actually their best offering, and the new CRV is getting good reviews (I wasn't a fan of the outgoing model).

And what is with the CR-Z? Poor fuel economy (for a hybrid), poor performance...what is it supposed to be?

 

[mikefxu]

We bought one for my wife two weeks after they came out. We both really like the car. It is very easy to pull off 40+ MPG both highway (70mph) and city. I wanted a car that will get good MPG and will last 10 years and still have resale value. Hondas has always done that for me. I drive a 04 Accord LX I4 Manual Sedan 158k. Hers is 12 Civic LX Auto Sedan 22k. Only thing I might have considered instead would have been a Prius C.

The 12 was mostly a carry over with tried and true technology. The 13 will have DI and CVT, I will let other people work the bugs out.

 

[VicVinegar]

I've had my Civic for 10 years and put about 180k nearly trouble free miles on it. You'd think Honda would be at the top of my list for a replacement, but it isn't.

To repeat another post, they aren't what they used to be. Cheaper interior, I don't like the speedo being on top of the gauge cluster, and I think the exterior stinks on the new Civic. Plus its performance isn't busting up the competition.

If I bought another Honda for my high mileage commuter car, it would be a Fit since that still retains some "old Honda" DNA. The Accord is too big and bloated these days to consider for me. I'd also strongly consider a 2008 TSX, but that is out of the segment. Maybe a newer TSX, but those are edging on too big for me as well.

I'm always weighing whether to keep the Civic and keep repairing things (a lot of things become "wear" items at some point) or get something new. If I had to choose a car in that segment today, I'd be checking out the Mazda 3, Focus, Elantra, and Impreza way before I go to a Honda dealer.

The cheaper interior vibe is everywhere though. For my wife's car, we looked at a Honda Pilot and a Toyota Highlander along with the Outback. My 12 year old Civic has nicer interior materials than the Honda and Toyota did and IMO the Subaru was better than both. I didn't get to sit in a new Civic, but the new CR-V's materials were shameful.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
honda has definitely lost their way across their entire product line.

disappointment galore:

Civic - everybody has already touched on this one
Insight - pointless hybrid with sub par mpg performance
Odyssey - way too expensive for the value (lack of)
Ridgeline - too expensive for a unibody truck with barely any capacity.
Accord - cheap and outclassed.
Fit - mpg should be better
Pilot - too expensive for the value.
Crosstour - Honda Aztek.

The one vehicle that i thought was great was the Element, and its gone. the CR-V is OK, but again a bit expensive. There is a reason Hyundai and Kia is doing so well, its because they outdid Honda all around.





You pretty much summed up their lineup, except I think the Fit is actually their best offering, and the new CRV is getting good reviews (I wasn't a fan of the outgoing model).

And what is with the CR-Z? Poor fuel economy (for a hybrid), poor performance...what is it supposed to be?


I guess thought it was going to be sporty and a throwback to the CRX. The Veloster is the same situation too unfortunately. Maybe they will wisen up and tighten up the suspension/steering.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

IRS has no place in a "pickup" or whatever the ridgeline claims to be. Same with the pilot.

I've seen a lot of Pilots on vacation, loaded to the gills, practically riding on the sidewall of the rear tires.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
IRS has no place in a "pickup" or whatever the ridgeline claims to be. Same with the pilot.

I've seen a lot of Pilots on vacation, loaded to the gills, practically riding on the sidewall of the rear tires.


I agree there. Same goes with Ford Exploders and other larger SUVs. You see so many of them loaded up looking like this from the back; /---\

In regards to the 2012 Civic, I know my BIL still loves his basic LX 4dr. He just took a 600mi road trip loaded with kids and gear and averaged ~37mpg. I think he's got about 12K miles total on it.

 

[supton]

Well, that has to do with suspension settings--I'm sure they could get an IRS to not change camber like that. Looks weird, but unless if the tires wear funny then I'm not sure it's a big deal.

Ridgeline is an interesting trucklet. Too expensive, obviously. And I think it needs a 4 or even 4.5L engine, as it's generally panned as being low in power; or at least a severe weight loss of at least 500lb. Maybe even one more cog in the transmission, mostly to extend the lower gearing (top gear is pretty tall as it is, 1800rpm or so 60mph if memory serves right), for off-road or towing (perhaps only engage that extra-low if in tow/haul mode--think of it as a gimmicky "low range"). I still think it comes close to what most are looking for in a truck: four doors, short bed, AWD, car like behavior. Cut the price by $5k, cut 500lb and/or add 50hp (but with a more-torque rich engine, instead of the typical Honda rev'er), and I suspect most would be willing to overlook the 18-20mpg for Honda quality and its moderate ability.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: supton
Well, that has to do with suspension settings--I'm sure they could get an IRS to not change camber like that. Looks weird, but unless if the tires wear funny then I'm not sure it's a big deal.


Despite how it looks, this is exactly what they intend for it to do. Negative camber in the rear adds stability to the vehicle, and you definitely want as much stability as you can get with a loaded vehicle. Getting a little bit of negative camber also tucks the top of the tire in as the suspension compresses so they can set the static track of the vehicle (essentially how far apart the wheels are) as bit wider, which also adds stability, all else being equal.

Another benefit of IRS is they can tune in some negative toe gain under compression to further add stability to the back end. None of this is generally possible with non-independent suspensions, especially those that are solid beams.

I've owned both types (large family vehicles with solid beam rear axles and IRS designs) and although the comparison obviously can't be apples-to-apples, those with IRS have been more stable and handle better than those with solid beams.

Originally Posted By: supton
top gear is pretty tall as it is, 1800rpm or so 60mph if memory serves right


If it's the same as our MDX (and the rest of the powertrain is), it's very tall. 2,000 rpm is about 72 mph, so yeah, 1,800 rpm would be at least 60 mph.

Originally Posted By: supton
Cut the price by $5k, cut 500lb and/or add 50hp (but with a more-torque rich engine, instead of the typical Honda rev'er), and I suspect most would be willing to overlook the 18-20mpg for Honda quality and its moderate ability.


The Ridgeline has far outlived its original intended life, and apparently keeps selling enough for Honda to continue to build it. It's clear that they intend for it to pass away, as it's the only SUV/van in their stable to not have been updated with current generation suspension components and a newer version of the venerable 3.5L V-6 engine. It comes with the same EPA ratings (15/21) as our 2005 MDX. It clearly hasn't evolved with the rest.

But that may be changed soon. Honda is said to be working on a second generation Ridgeline for 2014 which would presumably fix many of the current generation's shortcomings.

Motor Trend WOT article

 

[Spazdog]

1.4T Multiair apparently has a timing belt with a 74,500 mile change interval. Scratch the Dart off my list. Unless I find that it is easier than a D16 Honda Civic timing belt. I just keep remembering the nightmare that was the '82 Bertone X1/9 timing belt.

The Cruze is looking better and better. I can't believe I'm seriously pondering a small GM.

They just need to make this happen for the US:

 

[sw99]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What sort of MPG did you hope for and what MPG were you actually getting from the Sportage?

It's an SUV after all...


I certainly hoped for more than 22 average MPG that we were getting. It's rated for 28 on the HWY and the best we saw was 26 on a road trip. Thought it was doable when we bought it but the low average made it unbearable.

The Civic is rated for 39 HWY and we saw that on the first tank. The second was almost 41. We do approximately 60 Hwy / 40 City on the average.

 

[VicVinegar]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
1.4T Multiair apparently has a timing belt with a 74,500 mile change interval. Scratch the Dart off my list. Unless I find that it is easier than a D16 Honda Civic timing belt. I just keep remembering the nightmare that was the '82 Bertone X1/9 timing belt.

The Cruze is looking better and better. I can't believe I'm seriously pondering a small GM.

They just need to make this happen for the US:

Is that Cruze hatch supposed to be coming? The only news I can remember is a diesel in the pipeline.

Even without the hatch I think the Chevy deserves a look if I get serious about a new ride. Haven't read too much that is negative about them, unlike the Focus and the not so positive vibe I've been getting about their new AT. I know, I should get a stick.