The only college degree that truly was an education

[joekingcorvette]

I did fine in life educating from the book of hard knocks. I had a lot of different jobs and some were much better than others. In today's world businesses change or liquidate and send you down the road. You get a job you like, keep it, and if something happens you go out there and find another job. I always had my eyes open for something new to come up and was never afraid to change careers.

 

[Dave Hess]

Some colleges and universities have become degree mills handing out useless educations with the grads having really no hope of getting a decent job. They end up working a low paid job not needing any degree.

I have looked at some of the degrees offered at various learning institutions and it’s a shame students load themselves up to their eyeballs with debt and regret their decision. $150K in debt and they are working Starbucks drive thru window, Chick-fil-A or Build A Bear workshop.


How much will artificial intelligence hurt STEM in the next 5, 10, 20 years…. ?

Coding was the craze 5 years ago. How is coding career field doing today ?
Can it be done cheaper overseas (Indian coders for Boeing) ?

Will healthcare / medicine be the only ‘safe’ career field with all the city, state, government cutbacks ?

Military is NOT an option for most Americans so nobody please don’t offer that suggestion.

Daily Job Cuts . Com
^^^
Visit this site a few times per month and see the job losses across many different career fields / industries.

*** Edit ***
Added links for tech layoffs.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/05/21/tech-layoffs-2025-list/

https://techcrunch.com/2024/12/31/a-comprehensive-archive-of-2024-tech-layoffs/

 

[SC Maintenance]

How much will artificial intelligence hurt STEM in the next 5, 10, 20 years…. ?

Coding was the craze 5 years ago. How is coding career field doing today ?
Can it be done cheaper overseas (Indian coders for Boeing) ?

This concerns me immensely - as I have a kid getting her masters in software. She is focused on big data / training AI models - so maybe there is hope for her - I don't know.

I read a post on X where someone posted they had thought about retiring early but decided that they make so much money and that there kids might be screwed, there going to work much longer - to save up for them. I am sort of here myself - long ways from retirement but hope to leave both my kids at minimum a house - free and clear.

As for India - I worked for a Fortune 500 that was already having their code done in India, and I think in a deglobalizing world that is a non fear. Any company that is relying on off-shore code to control their business system deserves where they end. This stuff will come back on shore if it hasn't already.

Will healthcare / medicine be the only ‘safe’ career field with all the city, state, government cutbacks ?

Health care costs are unsustainable. Most of the increase over the years is the larger number of elderly, which has peaked, and also more and more spent on administration and the like. I think a lot of that will be replaced by AI or simply chopped. If your a physical therapist your likely in good shape. If you move paper around for a healthcare system or press buttons to run the CT machine, your out of luck.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The local Community Colleges around here are amazing. Low cost, many instructors from business, many late afternoon and night classes. They taught me to code. And the 1st 2 years of business school...

San Jose State is a legendary school. Got my degree at 40.
These schools took a broken man and gave me an incredible career and life.
Today we attend many free lectures; I have mentioned the Stanford KIPAC lectures here many times.

Education, all if it, is for life.

 

[Al]

Not arguing with any of the above. I had a mechanical engineering degree from PSU. I would guess for the majority of job openings in M.E. the real learning takes place on the job. The Degree weeds out some folks that are either not smart enough or motivated enough to perform the job. I was barely smart enough but made up for it in motivation. Just an opinion.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This concerns me immensely - as I have a kid getting her masters in software. She is focused on big data / training AI models - so maybe there is hope for her - I don't know.

That degree easily starts at $150K around here, Google is paying some grads upwards to $300K.
As in most things, the degree gets your foot in the door. Technology changes so rapidly; it is what you do once you get in there that counts.

 

[Pablo]

Some people get gov backed student loans with no intention of repaying them. Then the gov shows up with loan forgiveness.

Penalize the honest person who actually is paying back or has paid off. Seems fair.

And almost even sadder, most geniuses don't have any concept of how much this easy money has driven college costs up.

 

[97prizm]

I want to start off this thread by sharing my assessment that a four-year degree is an awesome thing. Not for the education one receives, unless the education is a STEM degree. A four-year degree demonstrates that a person can finish a long-term goal, meet requirements over four years, etc.

Often on BITOG there are discussions about doctrine taught in college level economic course/ majors. Life experience has taught me the professors teaching these courses, and the professors authoring books on economics for college curriculums are often incompetent at best, frauds at worst. I have two master's degrees (one master's from a top ten rated institution), a bachelor's degree, and an associates in science degree. I did my associates in science at age 20, the degree was a STEM, electronics engineering technology. I also taught at the University level, both as an adjunct professor and a tenured professor (top 30 university).

Reflecting back, the only degree where I really learned anything was the associates degree in electronics engineering technology. Being honest with myself, the other three degrees were just fluff, a way to get to a position of higher responsibility. In all my degrees I maintained a near 4.0 GPA, and I can't even write a proper sentence (active/ passive voice, etc). It speaks volumes a dumb dumb like me can have a near 4.0 in four degrees, how truly hard is the instruction, grading, and standards?

Sunday morning here in Asia. Drinking coffee, about to write a report...... what comes to mind is STEM degrees are the real deal, other degrees-- maybe not so much.

My complaint is that there are so many "fluff" degrees that push skilled people out because they don't have a specific degree but have many years of experience in a field. Hospitality management comes to mind. I worked for seven years at a hotel, and ended up with alot of long-term guests that initially were a walk-in. There wasn't really anything that a book was going to tell me.

 

[OVERKILL]

I like to refer to a lot of what it taught in universities as "Stupid Studies" degrees. You know the ones, such as Anthropology, undergrad level Sociology and Psychology, Communications, Performing Arts, and anything that ends in the word "Studies." None of those degrees should be eligible for the massive student loans that kids are saddling themselves with to get.

My dad has a PhD in Anthropology, how much do you actually know about what that career path entails?

When I took Computer Science, I did a joint CS + Arts program, which means I took calc and various programming courses, but also took English, Sociology, Anthropology, Psychology, Canadian History and Ancient Greek Mythology.

I couldn't stay awake for Ancient Greek Mythology and, compared to the higher level Anthro courses my dad taught, I found Anthro insanely boring as well. Sociology was interesting, as was Psych. The fundamentals of the human condition, our history, our cultures, how we interact and how we function aren't what I'd call stupid, quite the opposite. As the world around us becomes increasingly fractured and cultural incompatibilities overflow into our streets, knowing the histories and psychological aspects of what drives this is paramount in understanding why this is happening.

There are of course degrees in the humanities that seem to be incredibly easy to get and, shocker, since they provide little value, often don't result in gainful employment. Gender Studies is probably one that's harped on a lot, but there are a lot of "history-related" degrees that are effectively DEI-driven propaganda factories that promote a victim mentality, create division and needlessly inflate a sense of entitlement for people who then enter the world as somebody who identifies as an oppressed or marginalized person who cannot find satisfactory employment because of "the system", or, somebody who feels it's now their duty to become a voice for these people and march against this repression and marginalization. These people are often used as "useful idiots" by foreign actors to drive instability in the West.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

My BIL majored in English Literature at an Ivy League, MBA at another, had 3 kids, saved for undergrad for all and put one through private school (HS) at the tune of ~$70k/yr. He likes to hunt and drives an old RAM.

 

[jhellwig]

Not sure I holistically concur with "educational system did to my generation was try to tell everyone they had to get a 4-year degree".

From my foxhole, I would ponder " four-year degrees need to be STEM, non-STEM learning should not generate a bachelor's degree".

Your post brings to light this question; would the U.S. job market be different if all four-year degrees were STEM degrees?

I graduated highschool in 2001. Back then everyone had that attitude that if you liked to work with your hands or do technical stuff you should go get an engineering degree. The ability to work with your hands or do technical stuff or even make it through a four year degree doesn't mean you have the common sense to find your butt with two hands and a map. "STEM" (I hate that term) doesn't have to or need to be a four year degree. Skilled trades, regular trades or associate degrees are a much better education route for many people.

Then there is the problem where the trades are being stripped of any skill needed to the point where you have to be dead inside to do it for any length of time. Businesses in the mid 2000s to 2010s wanted people with ridiculous amounts of "experience" and a narrowed scope of skill of only knowing how to do their specific thing while taking the skill out of the job and replacing it with what is essentially a script then paying you next to nothing to do it. If you did manage to get into a good paying job where you could use your skill the micro managerial garbage you have to deal with makes the job not worth having.

The good thing about COVID was many of the boomers retired making way for everyone else to get into these jobs instead of working service jobs.

 

[Pew]

When I went to community college in 2010/12 for Geology and CAD, I was fortunate that my professors worked in their industry for decades before settling down as a teacher. They told us how work actually was and what to expect, as well as the differences between what to expect in the classroom versus on the job. My favorite one was an old Geology professor who didn't believe in extra credit because if you paid attention in class, you wouldn't need extra credit. My least favorite one was a German PoliSci one who had us buy a textbook he wrote that we used like 3 times.

My part-time job's boss used to work for
GM, Motorola, and I think Lucent. I am very fortunate that he brings a lot of talent and is willing to teach me. He does teach at various colleges/Unis if the price is right but he does note how a lot of teachers/professors he comes across don't have a lot of real-world experiences. They're not dumb by any means but they may lack critical skills where proper job experience would help problem solve issues that don't exist a text books.

Observational bias; it seems that first gen Americans are harped on harder by their parents who immigrated from third world countries to go to college and get a degree. That way they're not 'stuck' working physically demanding jobs that is usually seen as chores back in their country.

 

[JunkdrawerDog]

I want to start off this thread by sharing my assessment that a four-year degree is an awesome thing. Not for the education one receives, unless the education is a STEM degree. A four-year degree demonstrates that a person can finish a long-term goal, meet requirements over four years, etc.

Often on BITOG there are discussions about doctrine taught in college level economic course/ majors. Life experience has taught me the professors teaching these courses, and the professors authoring books on economics for college curriculums are often incompetent at best, frauds at worst. I have two master's degrees (one master's from a top ten rated institution), a bachelor's degree, and an associates in science degree. I did my associates in science at age 20, the degree was a STEM, electronics engineering technology. I also taught at the University level, both as an adjunct professor and a tenured professor (top 30 university).

Reflecting back, the only degree where I really learned anything was the associates degree in electronics engineering technology. Being honest with myself, the other three degrees were just fluff, a way to get to a position of higher responsibility. In all my degrees I maintained a near 4.0 GPA, and I can't even write a proper sentence (active/ passive voice, etc). It speaks volumes a dumb dumb like me can have a near 4.0 in four degrees, how truly hard is the instruction, grading, and standards?

Sunday morning here in Asia. Drinking coffee, about to write a report...... what comes to mind is STEM degrees are the real deal, other degrees-- maybe not so much.

My four year STEM degree from Purdue opened a lot of doors for me over the years in both technical and non technical fields of employment. Along the way I used employer tuition reimbursement programs to do continuing education in accounting, business law and management. No MBA for me but a good foundation from my years at Purdue, combined with continuing education worked well for me. Comfortably retired now.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My four year STEM degree from Purdue opened a lot of doors for me over the years in both technical and non technical fields of employment. Along the way I used employer tuition reimbursement programs to do continuing education in accounting, business law and management. No MBA for me but a good foundation from my years at Purdue, combined with continuing education worked well for me. Comfortably retired now.

Local companies paid my way. Big bosses told me to keep up with school and allowed my work schedule to accommodate school. They even offered to send me to do Post Grad work at Santa Clara or Stanford. Guess they liked my computer programs?
DeAnza Community College put me on a fast track to advancement. I am forever grateful. Stock options and grants for the win!

 

[cheetah50]

Accounting, Taxation and Finance now appear to be considered STEM by some, but need to be included if not. Many non-STEM courses also hold value depending on career choices. As someone who started in auditing and accounting but moved to controllership, M&A then operations leading large global organizations, I will say I benefitted greatly from various management coursework as well as other 'soft' subjects including communications.

Economics is such a broad field that you cannot really generalize, but I see your point. I have an Econ undergrad degree but I focused on what I considered useful once I was beyond the basics; Money & Banking, Economies of Developing Nations, etc. I will agree that the overall Econ Department (heck the whole field) outside of my little corner seemed chock full of idealogues that I disagreed with, the smartest people you've ever met (just ask them), and others who thrived only in academia. I did my best to avoid them....and took accounting electives. My do-over would flip my choices; Acctg degree, Econ minor....better yet Embry Riddle.

Our Offspring seems laser focused on Public Health Admin then law school hopefully leading to a job in pharma or healthcare. We're good w/ helping fund that plan.

When I got my Engineering Degree ~15 years ago now (Gah! how time flies) the best professors I had were experienced engineers, a few of those classes I really looked forward to attending, one professor in my Power Engineering studios was just awesome. The rest of the college experience...Blah.

 

[andrew_j]

I did structural engineering and was so happy at graduation to pass and be with some amazing friends. I got a 2.3 gpa and it was an amazing 4 years in my life away from strict parents.

 

[PWMDMD]

"the only degree where I really learned anything was the associates degree in electronics engineering technology."

WOW! I learned A TON in my undergraduate degree (math, chemistry, physics, biology and I use all that knowledge every day of life because it changed how I think about the world). I learned A TON in dental school and obviously use that every day so that's easy. I've leaned A TON in my MBA and again it is something I use every single day.

What I see as someone who has serval degrees is people go to school and for some reason seem to revel in forgetting what they've learned like it's a badge of honor. I have an incredible memory for what I've learned because I lean things to really understand them and not to just regurgitate information for the exam and then forget it. I work with a person who is a dentist who has a math degree from a just sub-Ivy League school and 14 years out she seems to have a shocking lack of understanding of math. I've tried to "bond with her" over math and she just doesn't get it. The other day showed her a meme that showed a cartoon figure on scale on one side of the equals sign and on the other side it said (Sqrt -1)/8 and she didn't get it. I was reading something about Richard Feynman's sum over all paths integral and I tried to have a basic conversation and she could not follow the conversation. I'm not asking her to calculate anything, just follow the conversation, and it's shocking how little she remembers.

I'm 25 years from taking organic chemistry and I can still draw out an SN1, SN2, E1 and E2 reaction and I know that because a friend with a chemistry PhD didn't believe me one night at trivia and she was super impressed I could still do it. I can still do this because I took learning it seriously, I didn't memorize it, and I tried to really understand and remember it. I think 5% of students look at learning the way I do and the other 95% memorize it, regurgitate it, and are happy to purge it from their brains a week later. It's not that they didn't learn anything in undergrad, it's they didn't bother to remember what they've learned and use it in their lives. I just figured that as long as I was paying to learn something, I may as well try and retain it, AND APPLY IT TO MY LIFE.

The problem are the students with these attitudes and not the universities.

 

[GSCJR]

My son just accepted an offer to the best architectural school in Canada. His other offer was an engineering degree, I hope things work out for him

 

[GSCJR]

because I lean things to really understand them and not to just regurgitate information for the exam and then forget it.

I took learning it seriously, I didn't memorize it, and I tried to really understand and remember it. I think 5% of students looks at learning the way I do and the other 95% learn it, regurgitate it, and are happy to purge it from their brains a week later. It's not that they didn't learn anything in undergrad, it's they didn't bother to remember what they've learned. I just figured that as long as I was paying to learn something, I may as well try and retain it, AND APPLY IT TO MY LIFE.

The problem are the students with these attitudes and not the universities.

100%

 

[JeffKeryk]

"the only degree where I really learned anything was the associates degree in electronics engineering technology."

WOW! I learned A TON in my undergraduate degree (math, chemistry, physics, biology and I use all that knowledge every day of life because it changed how I think about the world). I learned A TON in dental school and obviously use that every day so that's easy. I've leaned A TON in my MBA and again it is something I use every single day.

What I see as someone who has serval degrees is people go to school and for some reason seem to revel in forgetting what they've learned like it's a badge of honor. I have an incredible memory for what I've learned because I lean things to really understand them and not to just regurgitate information for the exam and then forget it. I work with a person who is a dentist who has a math degree from a just sub-Ivy League school and 14 years out she seems to have a shocking lack of understanding of math. I've tried to "bond with her" over math and she just doesn't get it. The other day showed her a meme that showed a cartoon figure on scale on one side of the equals sign and on the other side it said (Sqrt -1)/8 and she didn't get it. I was reading something about Richard Feynman's sum over all paths integral and I tried to have a basic conversation and she could not follow the conversation. I'm not asking her to calculate anything, just follow the conversation, and it's shocking how little she remembers.

I'm 25 years from taking organic chemistry and I can still draw out an SN1, SN2, E1 and E2 reaction and I know that because a friend with a chemistry PhD didn't believe me one night at trivia and she was super impressed I could still do it. I can still do this because I took learning it seriously, I didn't memorize it, and I tried to really understand and remember it. I think 5% of students look at learning the way I do and the other 95% memorize it, regurgitate it, and are happy to purge it from their brains a week later. It's not that they didn't learn anything in undergrad, it's they didn't bother to remember what they've learned and use it in their lives. I just figured that as long as I was paying to learn something, I may as well try and retain it, AND APPLY IT TO MY LIFE.

The problem are the students with these attitudes and not the universities.

What a wonderful, refreshing attitude. Education is for life. Every class I took left me with something I did not have before.