Value of a college degree

[JHZR2]

Is apparently worth far less than claimed: http://finance.yahoo.com/college-educati...nuing_education I never "bought" the claims of vast differences in income over a lifetime between colege and non-college earners, in MANY fields. Now for full disclosure, I have beyond a college degree, and I work in a good field which pays well. And I HAD to have a college degree to get in. I see a lot of bellyaching in this. I dispise the argument that the womens' college grads numbers are lo because women earn less. I'm sorry, if you choose to leave the workforce to have kids, then you will earn less if for no other reason then reduced seniority. Im sorry nature works that way but it isnt my problem. A handout shouldnt be given for pay parity because a woman has kids. Parity for equal work, equal seniority, equal capability, etc should be a given. But the biggest thing is that most college degrees are worthless. Where is the high level calculus, chemistry and physics? It isnt there. Biology, as I understand it, is the most popular major in many universities, and the dumbed down maths and sciences that they must take makes it worthless. Education is extremely valuable, the educations that are given out for the most part, are not. Anything art, finance, even most business is marginally worthless, because it really only makes you capable of being a line manager at the wal-mart or cell phone store. I am a strong advocate for trade schools and most folks going into skilled trades. We do not have a lot of them, and from what I've seen, a good, capable skilled tradesperson will make as much if not more than your run of the mill college graduate. Correct me if Im wrong... I see most college graduate degreed-jobs being viewed to be as disposable as any factory worker or tradesperson, and I don't see the perks being all that great for most positions. Dont like math or science? Sorry, that's what makes the world go round. Go do something meaningful then... Oh, dont like hard work and to get your hands dirty? Im sorry, that makes it tough to eat. Its great if you love art and literature, etc. Plenty of other educated and not formally educated folks do too. But if it isnt reasonably going to provide a decent wage, then why do it? Getting to the end of my rant... I just despise how colleges and universities sell degrees, and care more about giving sports scholarships to undeserving students than caring about true scholarship. I think there are way too many colleges and universities out there, but there is a propagating issue coming because they all depend upon growth at this point, not focusing purely on academics for the sake of academics. Most secondary education is worthless, and I have to agree that for many, the value of a college degree is far overstated. Thoughts?

 

[Geo_Prizm]

I have a BA, it does not help me, on the contrary, it is an obstacle before finding jobs.

 

[CivicFan]

Jeez.

 

[eljefino]

Expensive tuition is a cancer that needs addressing like expensive health coverage. Nobody is standing up to schools and calling them out. Get two politicians debating it and one will try to top the other over how important they think education is and how much money they'll throw at it. Here's my secret hunch: Keep a kid out of the workforce another four years and that's about 8% less unemployment. We keep coming out with clever low interest loans and even free grants, which get gobbled by the machinery. IIRC an adjunt professor who teaches one class, three hours a week, is typically paid $1500 a semester. I'm contemplating a change of career into auto mechanics, but it's a one-way jump: Imagine sending a resume in for a white collar/IT type position that says you get greasy. The good ole boy network of liberal arts nobodies will throw it right in the dustbin!

 

[stockrex]

someone pls tell mr billy bob gates he "needs" to get a college degree to make it in life. ;-)

 

[javacontour]

Not too shabby. Of course ROTC paid my tuition, so my ROI is out of sight. http://images.businessweek.com/ss/10/06/0628_payscale1/27.htm

 

[CivicFan]

Billy Bob came from old money. College dropouts from more mainstream backgrounds to not have similar successes.

 

[Schmoe]

Man, now THAT'S a rant!!!! I can smell what your cooking, but it's just the "way" it is. I've been in civil service for 20 years and this is how it's progressed within my time frame of observations. In 1990, you could start out about a GS-5 or 7 with no college. Then about 95'ish, you had to at least have a BA to just be able to qualify for a GS-7 and you could move up from there. About 2K-ish, you had to have a post college BA or Bach. Science to qualify for a GS-9. Now, you need almost a PhD to qualify as a GS-11 entry level position. Now within that run at the beginning, your experience counted towards education. Fast forward twenty years, your experience doesn't count towards education any longer. Now, don't go all postal on science degrees, they are needed. You have to have some good general knowledge, beyond high school, in biology, chemistry and mechanics to be able to write permits for EPA. That's what I do. Could a trades student fill one out or a gradutated high school student? Maybe, but if it's not spot on, it gets sent back to you and the project is on hold. Like the BRAC construction going on here. I'm talking multi-million dollars.....if the permit is wrong or rejected, you can't even turn dirt so the contractors sit and wait and get paid for our mistakes by not having the permit correctly filled out due to lack of intelligence on our part. Now I agree with you on some of your points. Seems a lot of ROTC students all majored in political science.......man, I'm not EVEN going there. But, there is a need for science educated people out here.

 

[stockrex]

one has to look into the reason behind rising tuition, the cost of doing business has gone through the roof, the main cost of doing business, for most, is healthcare for the employees. most educational insts, state owned or state subsidized are getting less and less from the state but their costs are going up.

 

[javacontour]

Oh, and I walked away with TWO degrees during my time at STL's Harvard.

 

[SuperDave456]

Every job I have ever applied for requires a Diploma with BA or [censored]. If they check the validity of such a thing is another discussion. Most management positions that I have looked at ask for at least 1 Masters degree. Having one and certifications on top of it is preferred. My wife on the other hand has done the trade school thing. Every job she has ever had sucked and paid beans. She tried 2 different trade schools for 2 different areas of employment, and after 10 years of work she realized that she needs a College Degree. Currently she is enrolled as a full time student and we are living off my income. A college degree is the new high school diploma. 20 Years ago all you needed to succeed is a high school education or a GED, the world has changed. Unfortunately the world has not changed for the better. 4 year degrees are now a mandatory 5 years, and since everyone now has a College Degree it is worthless. In order to succeed you need a Masters degree, at least another 2 years of investment after that initial BA or [censored]. I think the college system in the USA has gone to POT for profit, and the only thing it promotes is the creation of more Professors who do nothing. What we are lacking are thinkers, creators, and (dare I say it) artists. People who don't regurgitate information that they have devoured in pursuit of profit, but people who create their own ideas and bust their tail to make them work. The education system is broken, and I have no idea what we do to create a better one.

 

[bepperb]

All depends on the degree. I have a [censored] in Information Systems and a MBA. Not as fun as being a skydiving instructor, but they pay for themselves pretty quickly if you get a degree in a field with demand, that pays well, from a state university that costs very little.... or have work pay for it.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe

But, there is a need for science educated people out here.

As a scientist myself, I absolutely think there is a need for science degrees. Science and math are key to most anything else. Not saying that art, music, literature, language arent important too, but there are FAR too many of these folks getting degrees that are effectively worthless. I say more science and math type degrees, but don't dumb them down. Make them tough, make the degrees worth what was paid for them, and make sure the graduates are worth the degree. Don't just dumb down curriculum so that the degree can be sold. Then, most any other area should be reviewed very thuroughly with a fine-toothed comb to ensure value.

 

[Solo2driver]

I have a lot to say on this but I'll hold my tongue. My wife and I both work for the same company. She has a Masters, and I did not finish school (so we could pay for her grad work). She's been there a year longer than I have. I make 20% more than she does. Yet we both have a lot of student loan debt, even 7 years later.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SuperDave456

A college degree is the new high school diploma. 20 Years ago all you needed to succeed is a high school education or a GED, the world has changed. Unfortunately the world has not changed for the better. 4 year degrees are now a mandatory 5 years, and since everyone now has a College Degree it is worthless. In order to succeed you need a Masters degree, at least another 2 years of investment after that initial BA or [censored]. I think the college system in the USA has gone to POT for profit, and the only thing it promotes is the creation of more Professors who do nothing. What we are lacking are thinkers, creators, and (dare I say it) artists. People who don't regurgitate information that they have devoured in pursuit of profit, but people who create their own ideas and bust their tail to make them work.

Couldnt agree more. And what makes it sadder to see is when in advanced topical areas within science and engineering, we cannot get our own citizens to fill the rosters. HUGE numbers of Chinese and Indians get educated. Some stay, some leave. But why can't we fill these spots with our own? Because it isnt cool and the stupidity of TV/Media/Sports/Music solidifies this on soft young minds...

 

[Burt]

I only skimmed the article, but the part about ROI on tuition cost makes my stomach turn. Having said that, I agree with most everything JHZR2 said. But I would add that you have to follow both your heart and your head. It's not about making the most money but knowing who you are, what you can contribute and what society needs. We might all like to be forest rangers or photographers or editors, but the world only needs so many. Absolutely nothing wrong with learning a trade. It is true that the name of institution makes a difference. Having a degree from a big name school will open doors that are not open to regular folk.

 

[javacontour]

Because engineering degrees are work. When I was up working on a programming or EE project, my peers studying business or some other similar degree were off partying. Of course, I knew if I flunked out, game over. ROTC scholarship gone, and I'm active duty Army, probably infantry, LOL. So there was some additional incentive. There were many who knew mom and dad would just pay for a different college if they flunked out here and that was that.

 

[Johnny]

My wife has a masters in secondary education and I have a two year associates degree in business. She taught for 37-years, I worked for Pennzoil/Shell for 21 years. She was union, I was not. When we both retired I was making 3-times more than she was and I have a better pension and benefits than she does. Go figure.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: javacontour

Because engineering degrees are work. When I was up working on a programming or EE project, my peers studying business or some other similar degree were off partying.

That is part of my point. Most degrees are garbage because they arent much work. The student gets the slip of paper, and the college gets $$$. Creates lots of ineffective, dumb people that still can't do much of anything.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Originally Posted By: javacontour

Because engineering degrees are work. When I was up working on a programming or EE project, my peers studying business or some other similar degree were off partying.

That is part of my point. Most degrees are garbage because they arent much work. The student gets the slip of paper, and the college gets $$$. Creates lots of ineffective, dumb people that still can't do much of anything.

Are you talking about science degrees?