The main reason I change oil at 3000 miles...sludge!

[dnewton3]

Or Amsoil or other quality oil

If your oil is sludgy at 3K something is drastically wrong

Indeed; there are other very good lubes with excellent add-packs for cleaning.

Pablo, which of the Amsoil products have both esters and ANs, versus only esters? I must confess my ignorance in that I simply don't understand their line-up very well.

 

[twX]

In addition to the 70k to 100k miles put on per year I cant be sure how much idle time but its a lot. These are not commuter vehicles.

Your driving might actually be easier on the oil vs commuting, especially in terms of sludging. Sludge is primarily caused by doing short trips with a cold engine. Your engine is hardly ever cold, and wouldn't be building up any moisture.

If you're driving 85k miles / year, 50 hours per week, that works out to an average speed of 33 miles per hour, which isn't terribly low.

If I was changing my oil every 2-3 weeks, I'd extend the interval, and then monitor the engine to make sure it was reasonable. You could do some UOAs, and look for sludge by cutting your filters open, or by removing the valve cover or using a boroscope. 5-6k miles could be perfectly reasonable in your application with a good oil.

Dexos1 Gen3 is about twice as stringent as API SP in terms of sludge performance.

 

[tig1]

Neither engine would look like that with M1, 10W-30 or 10W-40 HM and 5000 mile oil changes. They'd be spotless under both valve covers, no phaser problems and no tensioner problems.

Very true. My engines have no sludge or varnish even with 10K OCIs using M1 oils.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I concur with kschachn; cleanliness isn't only a function of OCI.
In addition to the OCI, the add pack, the engine series lineage, the unique application; they all play into this.

For a great cleaning lube, it's hard to beat the HPL PCEO for it's superior add-pack inclusion of ester/AN. (Price is steep, but if you want "clean", this is one of the top choices out there). You could run HPL PCEO for 10-15k miles, and the engine would likely still be cleaner than using low-cost alternatives at 3k miles.

Dave, bowing to your vast experience, isn’t oxidation the main driver for sludge formation? So, if the oil’s not oxidizing, there’s almost zero chance of sludge, correct? And oxidation is mainly driven via the presence of oxygen and excessive heat?

Also, in addition to their cleaning capabilities, don’t ANs also boost the oxidative stability along with the antioxidant package? And depending on the type of esters, they could oxidize quickly or slowly?

 

[Navi]

I do all the oil changes myself on all my vehicles. Changing oil is just another day over here just like gassing the cars.

I will not be using boutique oils like Amsoil or Redline. Whatever is on the Walmart shelf is what I will select from.

At some point you have to draw a line at price point and I think eventually I will be using the Motorcraft/ACDelco filters versus the Wix and Quaker State versus Valvoline. The OEM filters and Quaker State are good quality at the right price.

 

[ARB1977]

You can go ahead and search on Google and Youtube to learn about sludge if you are not knowledgable. In "severe" and "extreme" duty driving one challenge is sludge.

Sludge is the main reason I change the oil every 3000 miles. Most notably I found the best oil to be one with the most detergents. Through my testing and reviews of VOAs I found the best value oil to be Quaker State High Mileage Full Synthetic but the best oil to be the Valvoline family which has detergent rich formulations.

For Ford Ecoboost engines I use Valvoline Full Synthetic Max Life. For the GMs I use Dexos rated Quaker State High Mileage Full Synthetic. Both are detergent rich oils.

My real life experience is the livery business in and around New York City. I have had engines sludge up in the past. When I first started in the industry I did 5000 and 7000 mile intervals and through hard lessons I learned 3000 is the way to go.

Here is one video from the Ford tech of a sludged engine. However there are countless videos and articles which can be found with a Google search. If you ask any mechanic they will tell you to change at 3000 miles and why? Sludge!

We all have different situations. If you lease or plan on selling before 70000 miles a 3000 mile interval may not matter to you. However if you plan on keeping the vehicle above 100000 miles or describe your use as "Severe" or "Extreme" duty trust me...3000 is the way to go.

Toyota Tacoma 4.0L. I guess I should worry. 5500-6500 oci with Amsoil XL. A few runs with SS 0W30 10K runs.

 

[Nesterenko]

Using name brand oils for 3k OCI's especially running a fleet of vehicles sounds like an unnecessary wallet killer for sure.

 

[demarpaint]

Blanket statements can cost you money, waste your money, and get you in trouble. Do your homework, what works for one person isn't always going to work for someone else.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Using name brand oils for 3k OCI's especially running a fleet of vehicles sounds like an unnecessary wallet killer for sure.

I laid out financials for each method for OP, including vehicle downtime which included extremely conservative “extended” OCIs (10k, which ironically is what OP’s OM and OLM recommend). IIRC, it was worth a solid 5 figures per year to ditch the 3k routine and go to 10k, but OP didn’t care. Some of the board experts have tried to expose the folly of “3k or bust” but those have failed also.

So I just sit back and laugh every 2 weeks (probably every oil change) when the “latest and greatest” 3k oil post pops up, with dubious claims made from a 2-week test based on a $38 UOA from a lab that generates a lot of data that is questioned for its accuracy.

 

[Pablo]

Indeed; there are other very good lubes with excellent add-packs for cleaning.

Pablo, which of the Amsoil products have both esters and ANs, versus only esters? I must confess my ignorance in that I simply don't understand their line-up very well.

All the top line up have plenty of anti-oxidants and detergents/dispersants. Base oil selection is important as well, but any ester/PAO/AN or even a clean Group III base oil would be fine in this application. No Amsoil oils are only ester. No such animal.

In this situation, the XL line up would be more than fine, which is a high additive Group III oil. But OP seems to want to stick with Walmart oils.

 

[loneryder]

I think he should try a 0-40 or QS Euro 5-40. A 229.5 oil would prevent sludge.

 

[chris719]

“Detergent rich” .

 

[02zx9r rev2]

View attachment 200681
Toyota Tacoma 4.0L. I guess I should worry. 5500-6500 oci with Amsoil XL. A few runs with SS 0W30 10K runs.

I always like when you post this picture

 

[The Critic]

“Detergent rich” .

“Detergent rich” .

He hasn’t seen HPL!

 

[2015Corolla]

At some point you have to draw a line at price point

Why?

 

[Vitamin Yoda]

So I just sit back and laugh every 2 weeks (probably every oil change) when the “latest and greatest” 3k oil post pops up, with dubious claims made from a 2-week test based on a $38 UOA from a lab that generates a lot of data that is questioned for its accuracy.

Everyone needs a hobby. For some it's collecting stamps, going fishing, or trying a new oil every so often.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

He hasn’t seen HPL!

He refuses to acknowledge it, because of the “excessive cost” to buy HPL, compared to changing oil and filters & equipment downtime every 2 weeks.

And re: the hobby comment above, changing oil on fleet vehicles that could be out making you money is not a hobby. It’s pure expense and lost revenue.

 

[busdriver]

If you want to change your oil every 3k, go for it..The behind the keyboard oil experts will criticize you, sadly, that's just the way keyboard oil experts are...

 

[M1Accord]

If 3k OCI is a hobby and the money making assets are forced off the clock in order to make the excel or little OCI book happy, then I say it is the cheapest hobby out there.

But 3k OCI is a lot and it is important to understand who is doing the changes If it is grease monkeys, then there is a chance of improper work that can cause more problems. What about oil filter, air filter, transmission fluid and filter change interval. There are a lot more to keep a car running than 3k OCI.

Unless the engine and vehicle have a design flaw, extended idling while racking up that kind of miles (70k-100k annually) isn’t nearly as severe as say police revenue collection vehicles that spend 80% idling and fully under load with A/C blasting and all other electronic running. Think about taxi and the rough miles they out in. I doubt they get the high quality oil just for 3k OCI and those vehicles will rack up miles.

Come to think about it, if it is 70k-100k annual miles, these vehicles will start having their own record book in 5 years. Diesel without bs epa restrictions would be a great option for fuel economy and longevity.

And then there are specific products on top of high quality oil to extend OCI to 15k since it is not the miles but rather the operating hours that dictate how often the oil should be changed.

 

[Brons2]

If you want to change your oil every 3k, go for it..The behind the keyboard oil experts will criticize you, sadly, that's just the way keyboard oil experts are...

Why exactly is it that he has joined an oil forum? Why have you joined an oil forum? To extol the virtues of doing things the way you have always done them?

This guy advocates his way of thinking because he saw a video on the FordTechMakuloco channel? Brian is a great mechanic but he has absolutely zero OCI data on these two engines. Completely anecdotal beyond the fact that one looks better taken care of than the other. There is zero data on how those engines got to that point.

Perhaps @Navi should get some actual data on his vehicle or fleet and make an onformed decision about when to change the oil. That means doing oil analysis. If he brought data back that said, the fuel dilution on the motor is too high for his comfort level after 3K, fine, I can support that. But taking a shot in the dark based on a YouTube video, that's not how we roll around here.