Texas bill that introduces $200 fee on EVs to fund roads just passed

[demarpaint]

You don't need to. At registration time, the EV could upload the odometer reading.

Ok, I'm thinking incorporate a safety check like some states do.

 

[Wingo]

But you are not winning here, you have to drive a 1984 Cavalier.

My late mom had a newer rendition and I drove it on two 700+ miles drives. It was a penalty box for sure.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2001-chevy-cavalier-2-door-blue-30k-miles.112989/
It's still running. My sister took it when mom passed as my niece totalled her truck and they needed another car while the claim was being sorted. So that pile of parts is still rolling along.

Still no fun to be inside, but it runs!

I had a 1993 Pontiac Sunbird in college, same as a Cavalier. I loved that car, 5 speed, super reliable, easy to work on.

 

[Torrid]

Ok, I'm thinking incorporate a safety check like some states do.

That would be the most honest way of doing it, an inspector getting the mileage to avoid any discrepancies. I remember how this process went in Arizona, but I don't remember Nevada doing it. I lived there for 8 years and I can't recall if I had to do it moving into the state, but I never had to do anything like that with car purchases or renewals. Like you said only some states do it and even the ones that do, some only do it for big cities and small towns don't do it at all.

 

[JeffKeryk]

That would be the most honest way of doing it, an inspector getting the mileage to avoid any discrepancies. I remember how this process went in Arizona, but I don't remember Nevada doing it. I lived there for 8 years and I can't recall if I had to do it moving into the state, but I never had to do anything like that with car purchases or renewals. Like you said only some states do it and even the ones that do, some only do it for big cities and small towns don't do it at all.

That would add too much cost, IMO.

 

[mrnkc130]

Apples and oranges Texas with no freeze-thaw cycle has it pretty easy to maintain its roads.

Im sure that plays a major part, so does rainfall, I assure you it freezes here, and we have soils that crack and expand and contract so much no one even builds basements here, we also have something like 4 ft of annual rainfall that comes in torrents of 2-5 inches at a time and probably 4 times as much road miles as Colorado as well.
I pulled a boat from Montana back to Texas and thought my wheels fell off the trailer or had something major break multiple times, but no it was just the roads (in October)
I did like the on ramp stops lights though, although just due to the volume of traffic it probably wouldn't help here.

 

[demarpaint]

That would be the most honest way of doing it, an inspector getting the mileage to avoid any discrepancies. I remember how this process went in Arizona, but I don't remember Nevada doing it. I lived there for 8 years and I can't recall if I had to do it moving into the state, but I never had to do anything like that with car purchases or renewals. Like you said only some states do it and even the ones that do, some only do it for big cities and small towns don't do it at all.

Here we have annual inspections. IIRC anything 1996 or newer gets plugged into a machine tied into the NYS DMV and checked for codes, then safety checked. $37 fee. Older non-OBD-II vehicles get a safety only. $10 fee. All mileage is reported to the DMV at the time of inspection. As with anything there are people who can cheat the system, but for the most part it works.

 

[Torrid]

That would add too much cost, IMO.

Exactly. It wouldn't be a problem in states that already do it, but wouldn't work for others. This seems to be a state by state thing anyway.

I didn't know about the fee until I started looking into plate for my car when I bought it. It wasn't until I talked to a guy at work who had recently bought a new hybrid Camry that the hybrid fee for Wisconsin is $75.

 

[Torrid]

Here we have annual inspections. IIRC anything 1996 or newer gets plugged into a machine tied into the NYS DMV and checked for codes, then safety checked. $37 fee. Older non-OBD-II vehicles get a safety only. $10 fee. All mileage is reported to the DMV at the time of inspection. As with anything there are people who can cheat the system, but for the most part it works.

Yep, would work perfect there then. Arizona did the same thing, but every 2 years.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Exactly. It wouldn't be a problem in states that already do it, but wouldn't work for others. This seems to be a state by state thing anyway.

I didn't know about the fee until I started looking into plate for my car when I bought it. It wasn't until I talked to a guy at work who had recently bought a new hybrid Camry that the hybrid fee for Wisconsin is $75.

As EV become more and more prevalent, states will adopt taxaction strategies. There will never be fair, but that is the nature of taxation.

 

[javacontour]

Point missed completely. Mpg equivalent is 120 which is near nothing even if you’re burning coal, but you’re sure right in suggesting I’m saying the facts don’t matter.

I can see what direction this thread is going and I’ve made several points of which this fee at its current rate is ridiculous and the fact another has just mentioned of the Camry Hybrid having to pay a similar fee which a coworker of mine recently mentioned to me. This obviously isn’t a “make it fair” tax and is a punitive charge as a political attack from those in government that disagree with EVs.

Yes it’s been said that the weight of the EV is the reason for the fee. That’s also asinine as mentioned with most Teslas being under 4,500lbs which almost no truck or SUV can claim, nor most larger crossovers, but by default of this fee will have the EV buyer paying well more than the the truck buyer for this tax.

So yeah, let’s be honest.

So use facts. The tailpipe is just at the power plant. Coal, natural gas all produce emissions.

I’m not anti-EV, I’m pro honesty.

I clearly said they were less (or may be, not sure how the electric Hummer is going to stack up next to a Prius)

So yeah, let’s be honest. Until all electricity is produced without using hydrocarbons, the tailpipe is simply somewhere else.

 

[javacontour]

I had a 1993 Pontiac Sunbird in college, same as a Cavalier. I loved that car, 5 speed, super reliable, easy to work on.

And pure misery to drive compared to its contemporaries.

My ex-wife had a ‘92 Sunbird IIRC with the 2.0 OHC. It ate head gaskets. So GM found a way to make that car unreliable.

 

[Wingo]

And pure misery to drive compared to its contemporaries.

My ex-wife had a ‘92 Sunbird IIRC with the 2.0 OHC. It ate head gaskets. So GM found a way to make that car unreliable.

Never had a head gasket issue. Mine was the little 2.0L. I do remember the one thing I wasn't terribly fond of was the heater. When it was well below zero that thing just did not generate enough heat to keep my feet too warm.
I loved driving that thing, little two door coupe. I was young though, probably wouldn't like it as much these days.

 

[Torrid]

So use facts. The tailpipe is just at the power plant. Coal, natural gas all produce emissions.

I’m not anti-EV, I’m pro honesty.

I clearly said they were less (or may be, not sure how the electric Hummer is going to stack up next to a Prius)

So yeah, let’s be honest. Until all electricity is produced without using hydrocarbons, the tailpipe is simply somewhere else.

It’s still less emissions because of how it’s produced, instead of an individual powerplant in each car, which is why I said it the way I did. So much so that by 20k miles even with additional emissions from creating the battery it’s already produced less than an equivalent ICE car at that same mileage. That’s significant.

 

[LDB]

Every state should mandate annual safety inspection because frankly, other than most of the people here and a few of the rest people don't properly maintain their vehicles. I drive almost exclusively within a 3 mile radius of home and even in such a small area I can't go out without seeing at least one car with inoperable light somewhere, and usually a few such vehicles. At least they have to make the 2 dead brake lights work once the inspection is due. And that includes recording the odometer reading. And it is uploaded to the state and then you can go online and renew your plates. So nothing as complicated as smart meters which many don't have or whatever. Annual inspection, annual update, done deal and safer cars to boot.

 

[Torrid]

Every state should mandate annual safety inspection because frankly, other than most of the people here and a few of the rest people don't properly maintain their vehicles. I drive almost exclusively within a 3 mile radius of home and even in such a small area I can't go out without seeing at least one car with inoperable light somewhere, and usually a few such vehicles. At least they have to make the 2 dead brake lights work once the inspection is due. And that includes recording the odometer reading. And it is uploaded to the state and then you can go online and renew your plates. So nothing as complicated as smart meters which many don't have or whatever. Annual inspection, annual update, done deal and safer cars to boot.

It is disturbing how poor of condition some cars are in that I see. The noise some make on the way by. Ugh.

 

[OVERKILL]

It’s still less emissions because of how it’s produced, instead of an individual powerplant in each car, which is why I said it the way I did. So much so that by 20k miles even with additional emissions from creating the battery it’s already produced less than an equivalent ICE car at that same mileage. That’s significant.

Depends on the grid makeup and the source of your study, I've seen a variety.

Obviously the emissions difference offset point is going to be reached much faster with a clean grid like Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba or BC's than in somewhere like Alberta, Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia.

If the grid is dominated by coal, the EV may actually be dirtier to operate, depending on what you are comparing it to.

According to the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/greenhouse-gas-emissions-typical-passenger-vehicle
- a vehicle that gets 22mpg emits 404gCO2/mile
- so, a vehicle that gets 44mpg would emit 202gCO2/mile

My Audi e-tron had a range of approximately 320km on 88kWh, or 200 miles, so that's 2.27 miles per kWh or 0.44kWh per mile
If we look at the German average emissions intensity:

That yields an emissions intensity of 211gCO2 per mile in the e-tron, higher than our 44mpg gasoline powered example.

Contrarily, that same vehicle in France, even on a bad year for their nuclear fleet:

yields 44.4gCO2/mile, MASSIVELY lower emissions.

 

[eljefino]

So, the semi would cause 3.5x as much wear as my wife's truck.

Of course this changes based on the dimensions of the tires on the semi and the number of axles. A triple axle dump with the same tire dimensions as our semi and loaded to 42,000lbs is putting down 60lbs per sq-in, almost 4x our 1/2-ton truck example.

Does a fully laden semi burn 3.5x as much fuel as my wife's truck? Approximately, yes. So it's pretty comparable.

You overdid your math, including some constants that cancel each other out.

My bike tire with 50 psi in it pushes down on the road with 50 lbs per square inch on average (it's a round tire). That number of square inches varies with the shape of the contact patch, which varies depending on how heavy the bike plus rider are. Call the bike and myself 250 lbs, so there are an average five inches of contact patch between the two tires.

18-wheeler tires run nearly 100 PSI, so they hit the roads with 100 pounds per square inch, and there are more of those inches working.

Road damage goes up by the fourth power of weight, so you've got ((80000/18)^4)18 vs ((5000/4)^4)4. And that's more than 3.5x as much.

 

[OVERKILL]

You overdid your math, including some constants that cancel each other out.

My bike tire with 50 psi in it pushes down on the road with 50 lbs per square inch on average (it's a round tire). That number of square inches varies with the shape of the contact patch, which varies depending on how heavy the bike plus rider are. Call the bike and myself 250 lbs, so there are an average five inches of contact patch between the two tires.

18-wheeler tires run nearly 100 PSI, so they hit the roads with 100 pounds per square inch, and there are more of those inches working.

Road damage goes up by the fourth power of weight, so you've got ((80000/18)^4)18 vs ((5000/4)^4)4. And that's more than 3.5x as much.

Meh, I do that sometimes I also used a triple axle trailer, where you've reverted to a twin axle trailer.

Regulation limits trailer and tractor tire weight to 4,250lbs, or roughly 3x the weight per tire of my wife's truck.

When you are calculating "road damage" what exactly are you calculating there? 7.02 quadrillion vs 14.3 trillion are the results of the above equations but you've lost me on what exactly it is those numbers represent other than one is 491x the other, or, 269x if we use my original numbers (triple axle trailer), which I assume I'm to infer is the relative difference in road damage caused.

 

[Torrid]

I love how deep into science this site gets. Really brings a depth to the conversation that I didn’t know I needed and enjoy so much. Then again we all got here as oil nerds so that probably says a lot.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I love how deep into science this site gets. Really brings a depth to the conversation that I didn’t know I needed and enjoy so much. Then again we all got here as oil nerds so that probably says a lot.

Yeah, we got some smarty pants people here... I just get outta their way, observe and learn.