Texas bill that introduces $200 fee on EVs to fund roads just passed

[Torrid]

I said I was done, but there’s one more thing. Free riders with solar? So actual net zero emissions and you want to tax that because “the roads”? How much of that gas tax is because your vehicle spews emissions into the air?

This thread is one massive joke.

 

[Torrid]

Actions have consequences.
You purchased a hybrid.
Why did you do that? To use less fuel?
So part of using less fuel, is that you aren't subsiding your use of the roadways.
So if you continue unchecked, you are gaming the system, and make it unfair to those of us who pay the going rate with every gallon of fuel we purchase.
So you have a choice to make. You either ante up the fee or get rid of the hybrid.
Can't have it both ways. There is no perfect system.
I'd rather see this than a road tax on electricity, or a pay per mile tax.
You have options, and a choice to make.
Consequences, and all that.

Consequences of a punitive tax well beyond the usage of the vehicle of not driving a less efficient ICE only vehicle. That felt good to say, didn’t it? You’re right, we should pay 4 times the tax of the normal vehicle for “fairness”. That’s fairness, right?

 

[brianl703]

I said I was done, but there’s one more thing. Free riders with solar? So actual net zero emissions and you want to tax that because “the roads”? How much of that gas tax is because your vehicle spews emissions into the air?

This thread is one massive joke.

Maybe these vehicles ought to get a tax credit when they're operated in EPA non-attainment areas.

 

[OVERKILL]

I said I was done, but there’s one more thing. Free riders with solar? So actual net zero emissions and you want to tax that because “the roads”? How much of that gas tax is because your vehicle spews emissions into the air?

This thread is one massive joke.

I don't think any of the gas tax is collected as part of a price on pollution in the US. Canadians pay a carbon tax, which is a separate tax, on gasoline and diesel for that reason, the money that was previously collected as a gas tax is supposed to be used for infrastructure and that seems to be what this thread is griping about.

As I've noted several times, I'm of the opinion that a tax charged on kWh consumed by EV's to align with what is currently collected for infrastructure on gas and diesel is the fairest way to ensure that this remains adequately funded. It accounts for weight, distance travelled and efficiency.

 

[Cujet]

Point missed completely. Mpg equivalent is 120 which is near nothing even if you’re burning coal,

MPG equiv is utter NONSENSE. Try charging an EV with a very efficient generator and see how far down the highway you can go on a gallon of fuel.

I know the answer, and, it's not pretty.

Generator prime mover (which is just an engine) driving a generator head, through a transformer, on to the grid, through another transformer or three, through the meter, the charger, into the battery, out of the battery, through a controller and into a motor, is what we call a "Stack of Losses"

 

[Torrid]

I don't think any of the gas tax is collected as part of a price on pollution in the US. Canadians pay a carbon tax, which is a separate tax, on gasoline and diesel for that reason, the money that was previously collected as a gas tax is supposed to be used for infrastructure and that seems to be what this thread is griping about.

As I've noted several times, I'm of the opinion that a tax charged on kWh consumed by EV's to align with what is currently collected for infrastructure on gas and diesel is the fairest way to ensure that this remains adequately funded. It accounts for weight, distance travelled and efficiency.

This is still the closet to common sense while adding a tax. I’m still amazed we’re all ok with a gas tax for the roads when we pay taxes at every step we take.

 

[Tdbo]

Consequences of a punitive tax well beyond the usage of the vehicle of not driving a less efficient ICE only vehicle. That felt good to say, didn’t it? You’re right, we should pay 4 times the tax of the normal vehicle for “fairness”. That’s fairness, right?

Funny, Biff.
Get some soothing ointment for your rash.

 

[Torrid]

MPG equiv is utter NONSENSE. Try charging an EV with a very efficient generator and see how far down the highway you can go on a gallon of fuel.

I know the answer, and, it's not pretty.

Generator prime mover (which is just an engine) driving a generator head, through a transformer, on to the grid, through another transformer or three, through the meter, the charger, into the battery, out of the battery, through a controller and into a motor, is what we call a "Stack of Losses"

Refining and transporting fuel. That’s all I’ll say. It’s way less efficient to use a generator to charge one car than to use the grid where energy at a specific place. It’s already way more efficient using the grid than an ICE vehicle. Add in refining and transporting fuel for your ICE and the efficiency number dips below 20%.

 

[Torrid]

Funny, Biff.
Get some soothing ointment for your rash.

Ha! It’s fair as long as you don’t like those people, right?

 

[demarpaint]

Since pollution was mentioned, we could also say mining or extracting and transporting lithium has consequences as well. Still no free lunch. As demand for lithium increases so will pollution associated with it. Some people still don't want to believe that. eFuel is very interesting to me, I have to read up on it. Unfortunately it doesn't fit the current agenda so I have my doubts.

 

[Tdbo]

Ha! It’s fair as long as you don’t like those people, right?

Buh-bye, Biff.

 

[Cujet]

Refining and transporting fuel. That’s all I’ll say. It’s way less efficient to use a generator to charge one car than to use the grid where energy at a specific place. It’s already way more efficient using the grid than an ICE vehicle. Add in refining and transporting fuel for your ICE and the efficiency number dips below 20%.

We know the EROI with regard to fuels. It's far better than implied. Even the oil sands EROI is 30 or above!
Same goes for transporting fuel. We can move 5000 gallons via truck, the least efficient method, at 6.5-7mpg. A 1000 mile EROI of above 97. The fact is, fuels are so energy dense, what is delivered is a very high percentage of the original. Period, end of story.

Toyota's modern engines are 40%+ TE. There is no possible way to get the number down to 20%. The real number is 34%.

Furthermore, there are 44% thermally efficient diesel gensets that are significantly more efficient than the 33% grid average. We can, and do (occasionally) charge EV's this way.

But to answer the question directly, the best we can do is 26 highway miles per 114,000 BTU (a gallon of gas) or about 10 pounds of coal.

 

[Torrid]

Buh-bye, Biff.

Oh, you’re one of those. Good talk. I learned a lot. Stay miserable, it’s a good look for you.

 

[Tdbo]

Oh, you’re one of those. Good talk. I learned a lot. Stay miserable, it’s a good look for you.

I'm fine. Couldn't be happier.
You seem to think that I value your opinion. Not.
Keep having your tantrum about "Fairness."
It shows who you are, and what you represent.

 

[Torrid]

I'm fine. Couldn't be happier.
You seem to think that I value your opinion. Not.
Keep having your tantrum about "Fairness."
It shows who you are, and what you represent.

We were having a discussion about how best to charge the fee, which is why that word was used. The adults were having a discussion while you acted childish, but as long as you feel you put your best foot forward, good on you.

 

[brianl703]

Virginia has a pay-by-mileage program which is optional instead of the highway use fee. It uses an OBD-II device to report mileage driven, along with an app you use to take a picture of your odometer once a year:

https://www.vamileagechoice.com/faq.php

 

[Torrid]

Virginia has a pay-by-mileage program which is optional instead of the highway use fee. It uses an OBD-II device to report mileage driven, along with an app you use to take a picture of your odometer once a year:

https://www.vamileagechoice.com/faq.php

I don’t have a problem with reporting mileage, but cars aren’t designed to have something plugged into the port at all times. I’m surprised this is an acceptable answer and no manufactures don’t outright say don’t do this.

 

[Tdbo]

We were having a discussion about how best to charge the fee, which is why that word was used. The adults were having a discussion while you acted childish, but as long as you feel you put your best foot forward, good on you.

Project much?
Can't wait for the gaslighting to start.
BTW, you said you were done at post #142, and that this thread was "One massive joke."
So much for walking the talk.

 

[Torrid]

Project much?
Can't wait for the gaslighting to start.
BTW, you said you were done at post #142, and that this thread was "One massive joke."
So much for walking the talk.

You really want to do this? I’m aware of what was said. It also immediately went back to the topic at hand so I continued to converse with those that were actually adding to the topic. Then you did what you did, not sure what I would call it, but it definitely didn’t bring anything worthwhile to the table.

Got anything else you want to add? I’m still waiting on something other than a nickname you came up with. Let’s have a real conversation. Do you have any desire for an EV? It’s fine if you don’t. I frankly know nothing of you other than it’s funny that a fee was high. I don’t know where you stand at that it was funny to you. I would venture a guess, but I decided I’d rather have a rational conversation and ask you. So, where are you on EVs in general and do you have an open mind on where EVs are going in the future?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, and it would be easy enough to have every state inspect the cars annually for a fee and report the miles driven. Then the proper agency generates a bill for the tax due and sends it to the current owner of the vehicle. A nice money grab.

You don't need to. At registration time, the EV could upload the odometer reading.