Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer

[JeffKeryk]

I think we need to be clear about something. I am certainly more well-versed and informed with technology than the younger generations as you call them.

Got it. I will say in general my experience shows my grand nieces naturally take to the digital interface as compared to, say 50+ drivers. Rather than struggle, they want it.
More than that, my point is, the digital interface is not what many seem to make it out to be. For example, I see posters assuming they need to dig through layers of menus to achieve simple tasks. Now, until you are familiar with how it works, it very well may be frustrating. My wife took to it much faster than I did. I could make the case this was dangerous; now it is 2nd nature.

I am sure there are users like you that would easily take to the digital interface. Kinda funny, I made a career in programming business logic and needs, while designing user interfaces that were used around the world. Perhaps the majority of my users were not primarily English speaking. And guess what? I am a lousy computer user. My guess is you are far better than I...

 

[edyvw]

Performance, performance, performance. OK. Forward to 11.40sec.


This is a constant issue compared to other vehicles.

 

[demarpaint]

Here's how it works for me... The screen MPH (and pertinent information) is just off to the right of your right hand, up high. You tend to look at it out of the corner of your eye; it becomes 2nd nature. This is an older picture; it has evolved. The additional benefit of the digital interface is upgrades via OTA updates. New functionality is not limited to manual buttons. Again, there cars are not for everyone; they are different. An open mind helps. If you have your mind up, you are likely to struggle with the tablet digital interface. And, of course, there is somewhat of a learning curve.
View attachment 250672

Sorry Tesla owners, aside from it being big and clunky it looks like a bad attempt at some kind of lousy video game. The more I see the less I like. Having said that it's your money and should be spent on anything you like. I spend my money that way, everyone should. Time to go back to my bunker and watch out for the retaliation for the anti-Tesla comments. FTR I'm back to liking Elon!!

 

[Torrid]

Do have to switch screens to adjust your climate control system?
From your photograph, I’m only seeing a map. Are there physical controls for climate control, heat, defrost, vents controls, high and low, cruise control Settings for following the car in front of you, wipers, all the traditional things of an automobile?

I only ever change temperature and my heated seat. That's on the bottom of the screen at all times. For further controls all you do is tap the temperature readout in the middle of the adjustment arrows and that opens the climate menu. I just don't use it that way personally. I've had cars with auto climate for nearly 15 years now and just leave it in auto. Air vents can be moved in there but I've never touched that either. With no gauge cluster in front of me, the vent is directly in front of me and further back on the dash.

Wiper is on the left stalk. I leave them on auto. I don't know how it's set up on the stalkless cars, but I would assume this moved to the wheel. Same with the lights. I leave my lights on auto as well, but if you flick the left stalk it does pop up the lighting menu on the left side of the screen. High/low beam can be left on auto, which I do not use. The left stalk works the same as any other car's high beam control.

Right stalk is the shifter and operates as the cruise control settings while the car is in motion.

 

[Torrid]

Sorry Tesla owners, aside from it being big and clunky it looks like a bad attempt at some kind of lousy video game. The more I see the less I like. Having said that it's your money and should be spent on anything you like. I spend my money that way, everyone should. Time to go back to my bunker and watch out for the retaliation for the anti-Tesla comments. FTR I'm back to liking Elon!!

Means a lot from someone driving a glorified Tonka toy.

To be fair Jeeps are great, but you know what I mean.

 

[demarpaint]

Means a lot from someone driving a glorified Tonka toy.

To be fair Jeeps are great, but you know what I mean.

I hear ya!! Two of them in fact, and a vintage E-150, a time tested classic. We can talk more when any Tesla completes the test of time my E150 did.

 

[alarmguy]

Got it. I will say in general my experience shows my grand nieces naturally take to the digital interface as compared to, say 50+ drivers. Rather than struggle, they want it.
More than that, my point is, the digital interface is not what many seem to make it out to be. For example, I see posters assuming they need to dig through layers of menus to achieve simple tasks. Now, until you are familiar with how it works, it very well may be frustrating. My wife took to it much faster than I did. I could make the case this was dangerous; now it is 2nd nature.

I am sure there are users like you that would easily take to the digital interface. Kinda funny, I made a career in programming business logic and needs, while designing user interfaces that were used around the world. Perhaps the majority of my users were not primarily English speaking. And guess what? I am a lousy computer user. My guess is you are far better than I...

I think we’re having the wrong conversation. I do understand what you’re saying but you seem like you’re arguing with me when I’m trying to find a reason why the headline states more people die in Teslas than any other automobile so you’re shooting down my argument and the argument of the article that distractions may be the cause and in doing so you are bringing up the possibility that Tesla’s are dangerous for some other reason
More or less I like data to explain what is happening and you’re shooting down my argument, which one can even say that I am defending Tesla


Yes, I am the go to guy for anyone who knows me personally in family and friends from 12 years old to 70 years old when they’re having trouble with any piece of technology or software for any device.

 

[Fair enough]

Here's how it works for me... The screen MPH (and pertinent information) is just off to the right of your right hand, up high. You tend to look at it out of the corner of your eye; it becomes 2nd nature. This is an older picture; it has evolved. The additional benefit of the digital interface is upgrades via OTA updates. New functionality is not limited to manual buttons. Again, there cars are not for everyone; they are different. An open mind helps. If you have your mind up, you are likely to struggle with the tablet digital interface. And, of course, there is somewhat of a learning curve.
View attachment 250672

Th S and X model had a gauge cluster. Some cars have hud, which is ok except maybe in bright oncoming sun, or with polarized sunglasses. Then there is winshield replacement costs with hud. They put gauges with a hooded cluster for a reason, sunlight doesn’t wash them out so much. Then there are mechanical needles in a bezel, which you are very familiar with.
Anyway you and everyone buys what they like and does it their way and if they have the money. I’m just not gaw gaw over Teslas. Look at that depreciation.

 

[alarmguy]

I only ever change temperature and my heated seat. That's on the bottom of the screen at all times. For further controls all you do is tap the temperature readout in the middle of the adjustment arrows and that opens the climate menu. I just don't use it that way personally. I've had cars with auto climate for nearly 15 years now and just leave it in auto. Air vents can be moved in there but I've never touched that either. With no gauge cluster in front of me, the vent is directly in front of me and further back on the dash.

Wiper is on the left stalk. I leave them on auto. I don't know how it's set up on the stalkless cars, but I would assume this moved to the wheel. Same with the lights. I leave my lights on auto as well, but if you flick the left stalk it does pop up the lighting menu on the left side of the screen. High/low beam can be left on auto, which I do not use. The left stalk works the same as any other car's high beam control.

Right stalk is the shifter and operates as the cruise control settings while the car is in motion.

Thank you for describing the set up in Tesla. What you describe may be the problem if in fact, and that is a big if, based on my previous post of data and percentages.

But if the data and percentages lined up and Teslas are being more involved in deadly accidents very well may be something as simple as needing physical controls for climate and other commonly used functions of the car.

Many many people, including my wife seems to need to adjust temperatures up and down all the time, being I was from a northern climate originally and now in a more temperate climate, we routinely change from air coming from the floor to the middle vents to the defrost mode and everything in between. This also includes the recirculate button and fresh air button.

This is very simple with a set up of specific functions for each button, such as pictured below on our new Equinox.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the electric version of the equinox or the gasoline version the set up is the same.

I do believe for many people less reaching and touching a screen while they’re driving versus putting your finger on a button might make a difference, but I don’t know, we won’t know for a long time. I will say many people prefer buttons for specific functions and that also includes people driving higher and on mobiles automobiles, such as BMW.

BMW has eliminated a lot of buttons and some cars and the response has not been favorable.

I think it’s very simple to say I am not taking a position against Tesla. I’m just examining the article and ask the question why and how they came to accumulate this data that Teslas are the most deadly car on the road.

16 buttons including two dials for temperature control on the 2025 GM equinox. Everything is at the tip of your finger without touching a screen and being able to go directly to the function.
I do fear someday all these buttons will go away because it is certainly less expensive to put everything onto a screen.

If it’s proven that one screen to control everything in a car is a distraction. I am sure requirements for specific function buttons might be required one day. It’s too soon to know we are still in touchscreen infancy.
One thing for sure, manufactures would love the public to accept touchscreen and no buttons because that is a significant cost savings

Everything is personal preference I personally like the look and function a buttons for specific purposes plus have the aid of an extensive touchscreen or even more options.
But that’s because maybe more of a tech guy I don’t know. But the question would still remain a set up like this possibly be less distracting to a driver.

 

[alarmguy]

double post

 

[JeffKeryk]

Do have to switch screens to adjust your climate control system?
From your photograph, I’m only seeing a map. Are there physical controls for climate control, heat, defrost, vents controls, high and low, cruise control Settings for following the car in front of you, wipers, all the traditional things of an automobile?

Steering wheel controls:


Here's climate control video:


Personally I use a mix of voice and manual controls. "My rear is cold."

 

[alarmguy]

There are numerous ways to adjust climate controls. Here is the default screen; controls at the bottom. You can add or remove icons for different functionality. I am on FSD and it is telling me to pay attention!
View attachment 250695
You can up-or-down the temp here, and there is a secondary screen (tap temp) to control front and rear seats heat-and-cool. But I just use the voice controls.
Detailed climate control menu:
View attachment 250700
Wipers are automatic and on the right steering wheel.
View attachment 250697
Overview:
View attachment 250698

Yes, and I wonder if all of the above is the distraction factor
Tesla owners do not need to take this personally. I’m analyzing why the article states what it does either in accurate misleading data or a reason.
Either way it seems like something can be improved upon in a modern vehicle, maybe.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, and I wonder if all of the above is the distraction factor

It is especially if you are not familiar. In fact it can be very frustrating; I've said this many times.
Of course that's true of any new interface. Our RX450h F Sport is very distracting to me, even the speedo mumbo jumbo. There is a lot going on.

By the way, I redid my #191 post.

 

[alarmguy]

It is especially if you are not familiar. In fact it can be very frustrating; I've said this many times.
Of course that's true of any new interface. Our RX450h F Sport is very distracting to me, even the speedo mumbo jumbo. There is a lot going on.
View attachment 250706

By the way, I redid my #191 post.

I can certainly agree with you.
Before I say anymore, let me tell you that a young doctor in my family circle, just out of medical school and in her internship agrees with what I’m about to say in regard to moving into the Apple world. She agreed on moving from windows to Apple seemed unintuitive at first for certain functions.
Let me add to that another person in my family circle, who reports directly to the CEO of a major Silicon Valley company that you and everybody in this country would know also agrees with me.

When my wife and I moved completely out of the windows world, except for my wife’s company provided desktop computers, and one laptop we found Apples operating system pain a in the ass and very unintuitive.
Everything has a learning curve and now I would never go back to the windows world because once learning the new system, you realize how well thought out and put together it is.

I think any change in technology has a learning curve and I wonder what will happen with all these automobiles going from standard switches to their own operating system.
Much like Apple versus Windows only this would be on a scale unimaginable with 20 different brands of automobiles and different systems. So initially there may be some confusion, but I do believe eventually everything will come together as it will have to I would think.

 

[ecotourist]

Here is a video concerning Model 3 crash tests, active as well as passive safety.



The car itself has good safety characteristics.

These tests don't consider the "full self driving" system, or how a Tesla might be driven. If the Tesla Model 3 has a poor safety record "in the wild" I'd be looking at the FSD and distraction from the way the controls are set up.

You can control many things using voice controls (I do it all the time) but not everyone uses them.

 

[fdcg27]

I think we can use Occam's Razor to arrive at the answer.
A Model 3 or a Model Y can be had for around Honda Accord or Toyota Camry money and many new buyers are coming out of these cars and anyone who could afford one of these could afford a Tesla.
The fundamental difference is that these Teslas are crazy mad fast.
Put your foot into one of these and it gathers speed quickly and effortlessly.
It would not be hard for a driver new to something so quick to outrun the brakes and to get into a situation where a collision with something is unavoidable or a run off the road rollover in a corner the driver is going too fast to negotiate.
What really separates Teslas from other cars at similar price points isn't the driver interface, since many newer cars use touch screens, and it isn't Autopilot, since most new cars on the road are capable of a reasonable emulation of it.
It's the speed factor that makes Teslas so deadly.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think we can use Occam's Razor to arrive at the answer.
A Model 3 or a Model Y can be had for around Honda Accord or Toyota Camry money and many new buyers are coming out of these cars and anyone who could afford one of these could afford a Tesla.
The fundamental difference is that these Teslas are crazy mad fast.
Put your foot into one of these and it gathers speed quickly and effortlessly.
It would not be hard for a driver new to something so quick to outrun the brakes and to get into a situation where a collision with something is unavoidable or a run off the road rollover in a corner the driver is going too fast to negotiate.
What really separates Teslas from other cars at similar price points isn't the driver interface, since many newer cars use touch screens, and it isn't Autopilot, since most new cars on the road are capable of a reasonable emulation of it.
It's the speed factor that makes Teslas so deadly.

You may be right, but without data analytics, this thread is a loaded with assumptions based on high level numbers.
I would believe that all the components factor in, but I believe there is more.

 

[Torrid]

Here is a video concerning Model 3 crash tests, active as well as passive safety.



The car itself has good safety characteristics.

These tests don't consider the "full self driving" system, or how a Tesla might be driven. If the Tesla Model 3 has a poor safety record "in the wild" I'd be looking at the FSD.

FSD is my only legitimate concern with the vehicle and I own both a 3 and a Y. The crash safety scores was a big point of conversation with my wife when we bought the first car. I truly think that FSD does things that confuse other drivers and just aren't natural. FSD might not just be driving into barriers, but I think at times it can initiate an accident doing something highly unexpected by those around it.

The biggest issue with FSD is that it's dealing with the human element. I don't think we'd see accidents if all cars are running it. I don't feel comfortable being 1 in 1000 running the system. If it's raising my blood pressure when it does something stupid, I'm sure the guy behind me is livid.

 

[Torrid]

I think we can use Occam's Razor to arrive at the answer.
A Model 3 or a Model Y can be had for around Honda Accord or Toyota Camry money and many new buyers are coming out of these cars and anyone who could afford one of these could afford a Tesla.
The fundamental difference is that these Teslas are crazy mad fast.
Put your foot into one of these and it gathers speed quickly and effortlessly.
It would not be hard for a driver new to something so quick to outrun the brakes and to get into a situation where a collision with something is unavoidable or a run off the road rollover in a corner the driver is going too fast to negotiate.
What really separates Teslas from other cars at similar price points isn't the driver interface, since many newer cars use touch screens, and it isn't Autopilot, since most new cars on the road are capable of a reasonable emulation of it.
It's the speed factor that makes Teslas so deadly.

I feel this is the other end of it. I defintely see speed and FSD being the biggest contributing factors. I really honestly recommend watching a video of someone testing FSD, even someone positive about it. It still does some dumb things. The guy in this video had the car attempt to turn down a "do not enter" which I'm assuming was a one way street. He did his due diligence to interrupt it and move on before re-engaging the system. That's the stuff that concerns me about it, because as a driver I would not try and make that turn in the first place. I do think there are times when people won't catch that in time and end up in a mess.

 

[ecotourist]

FSD is my only legitimate concern with the vehicle and I own both a 3 and a Y. The crash safety scores was a big point of conversation with my wife when we bought the first car. I truly think that FSD does things that confuse other drivers and just aren't natural. FSD might not just be driving into barriers, but I think at times it can initiate an accident doing something highly unexpected by those around it.

The biggest issue with FSD is that it's dealing with the human element. I don't think we'd see accidents if all cars are running it. I don't feel comfortable being 1 in 1000 running the system. If it's raising my blood pressure when it does something stupid, I'm sure the guy behind me is livid.

I tried the "free for a month" FSD system - twice for about 10 minutes each time. I didn't like it and turned it off. I won't be adding it to my Model 3 (and wouldn't use it if it was part of the basic package).