Tesla has the highest death rate of any manufacturer

[Torrid]

I tried the "free for a month" FSD system - twice for about 10 minutes each time. I didn't like it and turned it off. I won't be adding it to my Model 3 (and wouldn't use it if it was part of the basic package).

My experience was similar. I tried it once in the 3, my wife used it quite a bit more than me. I had no intention of trying it in the Y until my wife was talking about it again on the way back from picking it up. I did not want to try it that day, but after I stopped to eat it finished installing the FSD update and enabled itself, so when I went to set the cruise FSD came on instead. I was not pleased, but decided to let it do its thing. It cut off a semi 20 minutes later and then started speeding to open the gap up. I was absolutely done at that point.

I've been told by so many to change this or that setting that I would have known nothing about, but what does that say for the average driver of a Tesla? Say it did improve my experience, how is the average driver who doesn't spend time on forums and Reddit ever going to know that unless they actually go through and start messing with speed settings, lane change settings, and the aggression level so to speak? The most advanced system on the car is the least intuitive one. How many people had FSD enable like I did and don't know how to shut it off to get standard cruise control back? Would it kill them to put the single stalk pull for cruise, two pulls for FSD back? I swear they removed that to force more people into FSD since the car doesn't collect driving data for FSD unless you're actually using it. That part feels really wrong to me.

My wife likes it enough that she'd want it if it didn't cost $99 a month. I would think if she did more driving maybe it would make more sense. She understands a lot of its shortcomings and knows how to work around them. I don't have the patience for it and I don't like not feeling in control of my own vehicle. It's the highest form of anxiety I've ever felt behind the wheel of my own vehicle.

 

[JeffKeryk]

@ecotourist and @Torrid What will FSD (Supervised) do when a cop pulls up behind me and hits his bubblegum machine lights?

 

[edyvw]

Steering wheel controls:


Here's climate control video:


Personally I use a mix of voice and manual controls. "My rear is cold."

Forget the lack of ergonomics. It is actually comical!
No wonder people are crashing.

 

[Torrid]

@ecotourist and @Torrid What will FSD (Supervised) do when a cop pulls up behind me and hits his bubblegum machine lights?

I don’t know. I’ve not had that situation happen. I thought we might have gotten a preview of it one day in my wife’s Model 3 doing 15mph over when it apparently ignored the +5mph offset she had set.

 

[Torrid]

Forget the lack of ergonomics. It is actually comical!
No wonder people are crashing.

Clueless as always.

 

[ecotourist]

@ecotourist and @Torrid What will FSD (Supervised) do when a cop pulls up behind me and hits his bubblegum machine lights?

Depends on whether your Tesla thinks it's a parking ticket. I understand that (though this might only be an April Fool's joke) that a Model S will constantly move ahead of an officer trying to put a parking ticket under the windshield wiper. Maybe there can't be a driver for "parking ticket evasion" to operate.

 

[edyvw]

Clueless as always.

Sure, except clueless people figured out not to drive the deadliest vehicles.

 

[Torrid]

Sure, except clueless people figured out not to drive the deadliest vehicles.

You remember that movie Ace Ventura? There was a scene where he bent over and used his hands to move his butt cheeks while talking to simulate… well, you get what I’m referring to. Could you try to do a little less of that and find your way into a conversation where your single solitary focus isn’t to just disagree with anything anyone else says? I’ve given you my honest thoughts on the matter of legitimate possible issues could be causing the problem from someone that drives these cars everyday, but Mr. Armchair Quarterback edyvw knows better than anyone else here. It sure looks like most seem more in line with my thinking. No it’s got to be the controls when everyone else puts it in their screens these days too. I guess a steering wheel, some pedals, and a radio is just too darn difficult for the average consumer, but FSD and tire destroying instant acceleration are a-ok! Couldn’t be those things!

You can go on about the lack of stalks, but the Model Y still has those and the Model 3 had them up until the refresh this year. I don’t think people picked up enough Highlands and started wrapping them around trees enough to make this much of a blip off of having some turn signal buttons on the wheel.

I guess all those people can stop buying Teslas and then move on to the next brand they can put on the map for one of these stories.

 

[edyvw]

You remember that movie Ace Ventura? There was a scene where he bent over and used his hands to move his butt cheeks while talking to simulate… well, you get what I’m referring to. Could you try to do a little less of that and find your way into a conversation where your single solitary focus isn’t to just disagree with anything anyone else says? I’ve given you my honest thoughts on the matter of legitimate possible issues could be causing the problem from someone that drives these cars everyday, but Mr. Armchair Quarterback edyvw knows better than anyone else here. It sure looks like most seem more in line with my thinking. No it’s got to be the controls when everyone else puts it in their screens these days too. I guess a steering wheel, some pedals, and a radio is just too darn difficult for the average consumer, but FSD and tire destroying instant acceleration are a-ok! Couldn’t be those things!

You can go on about the lack of stalks, but the Model Y still has those and the Model 3 had them up until the refresh this year. I don’t think people picked up enough Highlands and started wrapping them around trees enough to make this much of a blip off of having some turn signal buttons on the wheel.

I guess all those people can stop buying Teslas and then move on to the next brand they can put on the map for one of these stories.

Data is data!

 

[Torrid]

Data is data!

So is the crash test data, so what’s the disconnect between? They don’t math out. How are you going to die in a safe vehicle? Hit by a larger, heavier vehicle, or excessive speed. I don’t think dinking with the touch screen at a reasonable speed results in dead in a Tesla. I’m picturing some Final Destination pipe through the windshield. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but it’ll yell at you for crossing lane lines or if something becomes in your way. Try as I might to shut this junk off I can’t. It warns you not to do it and then reenables it the next time you get back in it.

Speaking of larger, heavier vehicles aside from the Cybertruck, Teslas are neither of those. That could even put the death toll in the wrong column with the vehicle the collision is with if it’s more than a single vehicle accident. So let’s try data and common sense instead of the weird meandering path you’re trying to connect. Say you’re stuck on the whole screen scenario. Sally is trying to pick a new ebook on Spotify and… what’s she doing while she’s distracted? Excessively speeding maybe?

What do you drive again? I don’t remember. I ask because all these modern cars have bigger screens than ever. Apps, CarPlay, you name it. More people than ever before are using music or listening services these days over regular radio. It’s not a Tesla specific thing. If you’re not a person that plans your listening out beforehand, you’ll end up toying around in the screen instead. None of this is exclusive to Tesla. Again otherwise I don’t know what anyone would be doing in the settings menu while driving. That’s all initial setup stuff that you’d have to dig in menus for any car. My VW was more convoluted with settings menus in 3 different spots and I could never remember which one was which if I needed to find something since it’s something I’d rarely have to do. Then again I’ve never had to do any of that on the move. It was resetting tire pressures after airing up tires and changing DST twice a year which neither have to be done on the Tesla. Weird.

I also don’t know what settings you think you’d be messing with in a Tesla within the screen on a regular basis anyway. It has a steering wheel and two pedals. There’s not much to interact with to make it go down the road. There’s not even settings to change regenerative braking levels in the car like some brands have. It’s like an iPhone. You have a few basic settings and beyond that it’s pretty locked down.

I’m trying to figure out how your mind works here, because at this point I’m not sure it’s working too reliably.

 

[edyvw]

So is the crash test data, so what’s the disconnect between? They don’t math out. How are you going to die in a safe vehicle? Hit by a larger, heavier vehicle, or excessive speed. I don’t think dinking with the touch screen at a reasonable speed results in dead in a Tesla. I’m picturing some Final Destination pipe through the windshield. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but it’ll yell at you for crossing lane lines or if something becomes in your way. Try as I might to shut this junk off I can’t. It warns you not to do it and then reenables it the next time you get back in it.

Speaking of larger, heavier vehicles aside from the Cybertruck, Teslas are neither of those. That could even put the death toll in the wrong column with the vehicle the collision is with if it’s more than a single vehicle accident. So let’s try data and common sense instead of the weird meandering path you’re trying to connect. Say you’re stuck on the whole screen scenario. Sally is trying to pick a new ebook on Spotify and… what’s she doing while she’s distracted? Excessively speeding maybe?

What do you drive again? I don’t remember. I ask because all these modern cars have bigger screens than ever. Apps, CarPlay, you name it. More people than ever before are using music or listening services these days over regular radio. It’s not a Tesla specific thing. If you’re not a person that plans your listening out beforehand, you’ll end up toying around in the screen instead. None of this is exclusive to Tesla. Again otherwise I don’t know what anyone would be doing in the settings menu while driving. That’s all initial setup stuff that you’d have to dig in menus for any car. My VW was more convoluted with settings menus in 3 different spots and I could never remember which one was which if I needed to find something since it’s something I’d rarely have to do. Then again I’ve never had to do any of that on the move. It was resetting tire pressures after airing up tires and changing DST twice a year which neither have to be done on the Tesla. Weird.

I also don’t know what settings you think you’d be messing with in a Tesla within the screen on a regular basis anyway. It has a steering wheel and two pedals. There’s not much to interact with to make it go down the road. There’s not even settings to change regenerative braking levels in the car like some brands have. It’s like an iPhone. You have a few basic settings and beyond that it’s pretty locked down.

I’m trying to figure out how your mind works here, because at this point I’m not sure it’s working too reliably.

Well, it works well enough not to purchase the deadliest vehicle.

 

[JHZR2]

What about some of the dual motor cars that have the equivalent of 800hp and 950 ft lbs of torque or the more common speced Tesla's cars with 450hp/470 ft lbs tq. Add drivers that have not ever driven sports cars with sport suspension with that level of torque is also asking for some problems.

Yes!!

No they wouldn't. You only have access to the data if you either sign an NDA or do consulting work for them.

ISeeCars did neither. I won't even get into the great brush strokes of unethical behavior that comes with just looking at a pool of general data without zooming in on more detailed information.

I co-developed the Long-Term Quality Index. I try very hard to make sure automotive information is precise and easy to understand. This article just makes a broad conclusion without asking the 'Why' and, more importantly, requesting those details before publishing clickbait.

Thank you! Good data, and a good understanding of what those data mean, is essential. I believe your assessment is sound.

I've said it a million times with any car my goal when not pushing a vehicle is to drive it as smooth as possible. I feel like that's an important skill, especially with passengers. I think a lot of that came from many years driving manual transmissions. I'm not a person that is constantly gunning the throttle through traffic and standing on the brakes up to a stop.

I’ve said the same forever too. The “must have enormous power” crowd, and the race to the red light crowd doesn’t get it, but I agree.

I ride in a lot of cabs due to my job and most drivers are very rough around the edges when it comes to throttle, brake, and steering inputs. I've always been hyper sensitive to this as a passenger and to this day still makes me sick to my stomach at the age of 39. I thought they were just hiring bad drivers, but maybe this is pretty average and now people are buying supercar level acceleration in an electric vehicle and that may just amplify the output of rough inputs.

Ive always found the same. Stupid driving behaviors for no good reason. Even by drivers whose revenue depends upon good choices.

On another note this reckless and rough driving style probably accounts for the complaints of EVs going through tires fast.

The reckless and rough style is enabled by the EV drivetrain. It’s too much power for any practical use. Couple that with poor driving skills and behaviors and it’s making the case I’ve been saying for years.

 

[RAVL]

I think is is not warranted to say Teslas are unsafe per se; the real issue is the high power combined with bad driving skills. The “low powered” Teslas often have as much as or more power than a so-called sports car.

I learned to drive manual transmission on a 240D 4 speed and a Saab 900 8v 5 speed. Both wonderful cars, both with modest power. First car I would use for HPDEs was an 1986 528e 5 speed with a whopping 121hp or so. You actually learn to drive on cars like these, and not make people nauseous or drive like a jackass generally with the racing to lights, cutting people. off, etc. If I had to guess, Teslas are having perceived issues with the data for the same reasons tremendous safety innovations like ABS often cause drivers to actually tune out more and drive less responsibly.

As far as ergonomics go, I do t like the Tesla but it has impacted the industry no question - look at the new BMW dashes and the Mach E. Big stupid iPad in my view but this is what the market seemingly wants. But these are styling issues and it would be hard to correlate directly to safety, other than to say a tactical interface - where everything is operated by feel - the Germans used to be the best at this - is no doubt less distracting.

 

[Mainia]

This story does not involve a Tesla but here in a Minneapolis suburb a couple of days ago a 17 year old kid died while driving a 2023/24 Cadillac EV and hit what appears to be a large double poled over the intersection heavy duty pole at 60 mph. I have not followed it so I don't know if he was hot rodding or not. But my initial thought would be he may have. It was said the car went up in a magnesium like fire ball 4 lanes wide. It gave no chance for the driver or on lookers to help. It took a couple hours to get it tapped down. Granted at 60 mph you may not make it out of that crash alive even with a non-EV, but most likely there were people there to help if the non -EV scenario did not start on fire with gas. They may of had time to pull him out if he was not pinned.

As a parent, and owning only slower 0-60 cars in the 5.5 to 7 second level I know how even with that slow of a car you can get into trouble very fast even with time and skill behind you. I would never give a kid that level of a car with that level of performance to drive so early in their driving timeline. Get the kid a 4 cylinder non turbo car for his first car, even if it is a financial strain, not that that is the complete answer, as you can race around with a slow VW bug as I did in my 1st car.

 

[alarmguy]

This story does not involve a Tesla but here in a Minneapolis suburb a couple of days ago a 17 year old kid died while driving a 2023/24 Cadillac EV and hit what appears to be a large double poled over the intersection heavy duty pole at 60 mph. I have not followed it so I don't know if he was hot rodding or not. But my initial thought would be he may have. It was said the car went up in a magnesium like fire ball 4 lanes wide. It gave no chance for the driver or on lookers to help. It took a couple hours to get it tapped down. Granted at 60 mph you may not make it out of that crash alive even with a non-EV, but most likely there were people there to help if the non -EV scenario did not start on fire with gas. They may of had time to pull him out if he was not pinned.
…

Here is the story, sad = https://www.yahoo.com/news/teen-killed-fiery-minnetonka-crash-152605709.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/teenager-killed-highway-7-minnetonka-crash/

The public are the beta testers to improve EV fire hazards like the Ford Pinto was to gasoline hazards but only danger was from the rear in that car. I wonder if the issue can ever be solved with lithium batteries.

With lithium batteries the entire vehicle is built on top of the battery, it encompasses almost the entire chassis exposing it to damage from any direction.

With a h2 EV the hydrogen tank is in one section of the vehicle just like a gas tank. Neither one of these will line the entire bottom of the vehicle and passenger compartment.

 

[Torrid]

Well, it works well enough not to purchase the deadliest vehicle.

You're mentally defective. I take it you didn't want to have an actual conversation about the matter? That's my last time trying to level and have an adult conversation with you. Piss off.

 

[edyvw]

You're mentally defective. I take it you didn't want to have an actual conversation about the matter? That's my last time trying to level and have an adult conversation with you. Piss off.

But you still find it convenient to throw insults at people.

 

[Torrid]

@ecotourist and @Torrid What will FSD (Supervised) do when a cop pulls up behind me and hits his bubblegum machine lights?

Did you have a follow up on this? I'm genuinely curious. I'm not ballsy enough to go out and simulate the situation for research.

 

[wpod]

"A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving."

100% agreed ! But then that is the hard part.

 

[edyvw]

If we only had something on the internet that would help us search for information:

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/dr...kirt-limits-set-by-partial-automation-systems