Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD)

[alarmguy]

My wife too. Only she just wishes she could lower the volume of me cursing when some moron in a BMW, Tesla, MB, chopped Civic, large 4x4, and now because it's warm motorcyclist thinks they're at the Indy 500, drafting cars or weaving in and out at insane speeds. I always try for new and fresh curse combos, and other commentary. But that's getting tough. If thoughts are truly a sin I know where I'll be going when my time is up.

New York has you stressed out!
I think at one time I might’ve been but then I got smart and moved south almost 20 years ago.
It doesn’t bother me if I see a motorcycle weaving in and out or any of the other things you mentioned. I just go about my enjoyable driving day.

I do tend to get annoyed a little bit when I’m stuck behind a slow driver and in the south is quite a few of them and they all came from the northeast and are really old now!

 

[demarpaint]

New York has you stressed out!
I think at one time I might’ve been but then I got smart and moved south almost 20 years ago.
It doesn’t bother me if I see a motorcycle weaving in and out or any of the other things you mentioned. I just go about my enjoyable driving day.

I do tend to get annoyed a little bit when I’m stuck behind a slow driver and in the south is quite a few of them and they all came from the northeast and are really old now!

It's all about volume my friend, you bailed 20 years ago, SMART MOVE!! I can tell you the volume and the amount of stupid drivers has probably increased ten fold since you're gone. I find myself cursing just as much when I go to Florida to visit my son and brother. There could very well be no hope for me............ I'm also willing to bet if you came back here for a month you'd be in total agreement with me.

 

[97prizm]

Your statement is incorrect. The driver overrides the system. If the driver overrides the system, how could self driving be a fault?

Why would the driver press the accelerator pedal if there was an object in front of it? If fsd is so smart and (10x safer according to Musk) why didn't it stop if sensing an impending crash?

 

[Torrid]

That we've heard of, at least.

I mean literally none. Every forward collision has been the driver overriding that has made the news. I'm sure we would have heard of it by now. It's only been 4 years since they removed all other sensors.

 

[Torrid]

Why would the driver press the accelerator pedal if there was an object in front of it? If fsd is so smart and (10x safer according to Musk) why didn't it stop if sensing an impending crash?

Because if you get the warning about emergency braking and lift the accelerator and hit it again, it overrides it.

AEB used to be really overactive on these cars years back so I used to have to do this occasionally manually driving if someone pulled out in front of you. Once it starts braking, the pedal can be lifted a bit and pressed again to override. It would beep like crazy doing this.

The override exists for a reason. Could you imagine if you couldn't override it and that would be the reason an accident was caused instead?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Why would the driver press the accelerator pedal if there was an object in front of it? If fsd is so smart and (10x safer according to Musk) why didn't it stop if sensing an impending crash?

FSD allows for the driver to take control of the vehicle.

 

[fdcg27]

I mean literally none. Every forward collision has been the driver overriding that has made the news. I'm sure we would have heard of it by now. It's only been 4 years since they removed all other sensors.

We've heard plenty about Tesla accidents with ambiguous causes, so I don't think we can rule out the lack of a radar unit as being of no consequence. There is the simple fact that Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate per miles driven as well as the highest fatal accident rate per units registered of any maker offering passenger vehicles for sale in the US.
There is a reason that every other maker uses radar for both adaptive cruise control and for emergency autonomous braking and I doubt that it's because these other companies want to spend more money.

 

[Torrid]

We've heard plenty about Tesla accidents with ambiguous causes, so I don't think we can rule out the lack of a radar unit as being of no consequence. There is the simple fact that Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate per miles driven as well as the highest fatal accident rate per units registered of any maker offering passenger vehicles for sale in the US.
There is a reason that every other maker uses radar for both adaptive cruise control and for emergency autonomous braking and I doubt that it's because these other companies want to spend more money.

Yet we can pull the data from our own personal vehicles and share it. You'd be surprised how few Tesla owners don't even have FSD.

You'd also be surprised how many brands are camera only. Tesla was not the first. There's a lot of assumptions without data here and Tesla even allows owners to pull their own data. Most of the videos I share are downloaded remotely from the car when I'm in another state. It shows what mode the car is in and what inputs I'm giving it.

Who else is this open without making a formal request and waiting for data?

 

[fdcg27]

Yet we can pull the data from our own personal vehicles and share it. You'd be surprised how few Tesla owners don't even have FSD.

You'd also be surprised how many brands are camera only. Tesla was not the first. There's a lot of assumptions without data here and Tesla even allows owners to pull their own data. Most of the videos I share are downloaded remotely from the car when I'm in another state. It shows what mode the car is in and what inputs I'm giving it.

Who else is this open without making a formal request and waiting for data?

Name a few brands that don't have radar and are camera only, just to relieve my ignorance.

 

[Torrid]

Name a few brands that don't have radar and are camera only, just to relieve my ignorance.

Honda and Subaru for sure. It's not always every model. You'd think it was uniform across all models, but it is not.

 

[fdcg27]

Honda and Subaru for sure. It's not always every model. You'd think it was uniform across all models, but it is not.

Umm, oddly enough both Honda and Subaru offer replacement radar units for their 2026 models. My 2018 HAH certainly does have a radar unit and radar was available on the 2017 Forester for four or five grand more as part of the upgrade from the Premium Package that we bought.
So, maybe not Honda and Subaru for sure.

 

[Torrid]

Umm, oddly enough both Honda and Subaru offer replacement radar units for their 2026 models. My 2018 HAH certainly does have a radar unit and radar was available on the 2017 Forester for four or five grand more as part of the upgrade from the Premium Package that we bought.
So, maybe not Honda and Subaru for sure.

They both have multiple models that are camera only.

 

[fdcg27]

They both have multiple models that are camera only.

Like what?
Give a few examples rather than generalities.

 

[Torrid]

Like what?
Give a few examples rather than generalities.

Go do some reading. The internet is full of information. I have to leave for work. I know for sure the HRV had a bunch of complaints about being camera only, yet seemed to work fine.

Radar isn't necessary if the software accounts for it. Initially I was inclined to agree with you. After owning at least one Tesla for the last four years I can tell it was all in my head. Without enough data we call can be convinced of being an expert in our own minds.

The difference is that it uses multiple forward camera for depth.

 

[fdcg27]

Go do some reading. The internet is full of information. I have to leave for work. I know for sure the HRV had a bunch of complaints about being camera only, yet seemed to work fine.

Radar isn't necessary if the software accounts for it. Initially I was inclined to agree with you. After owning at least one Tesla for the last four years I can tell it was all in my head. Without enough data we call can be convinced of being an expert in our own minds.

The difference is that it uses multiple forward camera for depth.

You're the one who made the claim, so you're the one who'd need to do some reading to back it up.

 

[alarmguy]

Why would the driver press the accelerator pedal if there was an object in front of it? If fsd is so smart and (10x safer according to Musk) why didn't it stop if sensing an impending crash?

It’s called speeding down a residential block and losing control of the car.
Or like what took place in Texas he thought he was gonna kill himself
But this is all social media speculation until a complete report comes out
Or a vehicle systems breakdown but that wouldn’t be unique to just Tesla

 

[andrew_j]

…

 

[Torrid]

You're the one who made the claim, so you're the one who'd need to do some reading to back it up.

Here's the exact info I gave you backed up by Grok that I gave you before, yet you're talking about retrofitting radar for some reason. What I gave you before was from memory, but this basically repeats what I just said.

Subaru (with EyeSight) and Tesla (with Tesla Vision) are the primary examples of production vehicles using camera-only systems for adaptive cruise control (ACC), without radar. Some specific Honda models also use camera-only setups in certain generations or trims.a98775
Subaru EyeSight (Stereo Cameras)
Subaru has used a stereo (dual) camera system mounted near the windshield for EyeSight since around 2013 in many markets. This provides ACC (including full-speed range, down to 0 mph in later versions) along with features like pre-collision braking and lane keep assist.56db8a
Models include: Legacy, Outback, Forester, Impreza, WRX, Crosstrek, Ascent (generally 2013+ or 2014+ depending on the model).920123
It relies purely on visual data from the cameras for depth perception via stereo vision—no radar is used for the core ACC functions.
Tesla (Tesla Vision – Multiple Cameras)
All recent Tesla vehicles (post-2021 for Model 3/Y in many markets) use a camera-only "Tesla Vision" system with multiple surround cameras and neural network processing. This handles Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (their ACC) and Autopilot features.1b8147
Earlier models had radar, but Tesla transitioned away from it.
Applies to: Model 3, Model Y, Model S, Model X, Cybertruck, etc. (with ongoing software updates improving performance).
Honda (Select Models with Updated Honda Sensing)
Some newer Honda models, particularly certain 2022+ Civic variants and HR-V models with Honda Sensing, use a single forward-facing camera-only system for ACC and related features, eliminating the front radar unit found in other Hondas.4b029ae03e7b
Performance can vary by conditions (e.g., weather), as with other camera systems.
Other Notes
Camera-only systems (mono or stereo) infer distance and speed from visual cues, object size changes, and (in stereo cases) parallax. They contrast with the more common radar + camera fusion in brands like Toyota, GM, Ford, VW, etc.fc7deb
Camera systems can struggle more in low visibility (heavy rain, fog, snow, or poor lighting) compared to radar, though software improvements help.ecf674
A few other mentions exist (e.g., some older BMW i3 reports or supplier tech like Valeo front cameras), but they are not widespread in production consumer vehicles.07f685
Always check the specific model year and trim, as sensor setups evolve (e.g., via owner’s manuals or manufacturer specs). Features may require specific packages.
For the most current info on a particular car, consult the manufacturer, as ADAS configurations can change.

In other words it seems we can credit Subaru with inventing the idea and as I've said Honda has been doing it as well.