Tesla Christmas Road Trip - Battery needed frequent re-charging - Range Estimates were 50% to 69% off

[loneryder]

What's the most efficient way to sum up EV ownership/use etc.?
1) They're very much suited to 96% of trips (aka local driving) in lots of places.
2) They have a history of local use going back decades. See where they worked, see where they failed, see how they failed.
3) EVs are a political hot potato. Expect more EV reports coupled with snide political commentary this year.
4) Why in Heaven's name do we have to hear complaints regarding EVs inability to haul a 6 horse trailer from Texas to Canada?
5) Why are these things advertised as a panacea for all things bad?
6) Why do some people react to them as if forced to marry a kangaroo?
7) How come these things weren't crafted into small, local delivery vehicles? The chargers for which could be part of business' buildings.

I'll bet very few mechanical things are absolutely worthless. One trouble is that vehicles are still marketed to our glands.

8) Also, as a distressing trait, many seem happier saying nasty, sweeping, resentful , stupid things as opposed to weighing facts and situations and applications. Then this noise is woven into political rhetoric.

Shame on the industry for making ridiculously fast super cars with this technology as opposed to more universally usable vehicles.
Also, their advertising never contains one shred of educational value. Remember, advertising self-proclaims itself as being educational to the consumer.

Time for some real, big-picture truth.

EX: "The used car you've always sought, the one driven by an old lady only on Sundays, can be an EV!"

It seems people are willing to be stupid sometimes.

Marrying a kangaroo might have been easier than my ex wife!

 

[JeffKeryk]

It depends on where and when you charge. If you really want to, it's possible to comparison shop based on the price of the charging, especially with many having different costs based on time of use.

I got mad at the Tesla GPS Supercharger map last Saturday. I stopped in San Rafael to charge at the 250kW chargers; they were the chump change 72kW chargers. Sheesh. Musk is wack. Can't even code his own lousy Supercharger map... Get it right you BOZO!

 

[y_p_w]

I got mad at the Tesla GPS Supercharger map last Saturday. I stopped in San Rafael to charge at the 250kW chargers; they were the chump change 72kW chargers. Sheesh. Musk is wack. Can't even code his own lousy Supercharger map... Get it right you BOZO!

I kind of like those. If you have time, they might be easier on a battery than the 150/250kW ones.

 

[andrew_j]

and factual data, to suggest not is silly and agenda based, not worth a conversation.

You can set up facts and omit to make your story better. TV it’s story telling. You can hear them tweaking it for TV even a real EV fan who owns a Tesla Plaid.

If you use an app to plan route it’s better then car software at estimating range as it takes factors such as weather into route

Most EV owner would have plugged the vehicle in overnight even to Level 1 charger which more hotels have.

That all being said it takes longer in EV due to charge times….

 

[wemay]

These are becoming as good as Thick/Thin threads.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Some interesting observations by energy.gov
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fuel-economy-cold-weather
Everyone looses fuel economy in the varying weather conditions

Cold weather and winter driving conditions can significantly reduce fuel economy. Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips.

Cold weather effects can vary by vehicle model. However, expect conventional gasoline vehicles to suffer a 10% to 20% fuel economy loss in city driving and a 15% to 33% loss on short trips.

The effect on hybrids is typically greater - with fuel economy dropping about 30% to 34% under these conditions. For hybrids, fuel economy typically decreases by 20% to 40% in city driving and 25% to 45% on short trips.

For electric vehicles (EVs), fuel economy can drop roughly 39% in mixed city and highway driving, and range can drop by 41%. About two-thirds of the extra energy consumed is used to heat the cabin. When the cabin heater is not used, EV fuel economy is 8% lower at 20°F than at 75°F. Driving range is about 12% lower.

Some CR testing on which evs are the worst offenders.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...e-affects-electric-vehicle-range-a4873569949/
Tesla seems to be the most at odds at seasonal range diff.

some info about charging costs.
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/cost-charge-electric-vehicle-explained
Depends on how much you drive and local utility costs.

Suppose you drive at the American average of 1,124 miles per month. If using an EV, which gets an average of 3 to 4 miles per kWh (let’s use 3 in this case), you will use about 375 kWh a month. Using the U.S. household average of about 16 cents per kWh, charging an electric car at home would cost nearly $60 per month.

This amount is most likely lower than what you pay each month to buy gasoline.

if assuming the average price of gas at $3.60 per gallon, filling up a 12-gallon gas tank would cost about $43. If you’re driving a car that brings a combined city and highway driving average of 30 miles per gallon, using that same 12-gallon tank as a reference point, you’ll have 360 miles of driving range for each fill-up. If you’re driving the same 1,124 miles per month, you’ll need to refuel three times each month and spend about $129 ($43 x 3). The Cost of Level 2 and Level 3 Charging - The Faster the Charging, the Higher the Rate

How do i calculate my savings if I switch to evs?
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.jsp



How much time do ev owners spend on average at dc fastcharging except at tesla superchargers?
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...arging-paid-dc-fast-charging-stations-average
Turns out alot more then a gas owner. 42-78 minutes


Does Teslas cheapest model available start at 65k?
https://www.tesla.com/model3
The current price is $40630. if you qualify for state incentives, fed incentives,well now you might be sitting way lower.


Do your own research folks. This whole one size fits all, Evs bad Ice good, or vice versa is silly.

 

[UncleDave]

Some interesting observations by energy.gov
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fuel-economy-cold-weather
Everyone looses fuel economy in the varying weather conditions


Some CR testing on which evs are the worst offenders.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...e-affects-electric-vehicle-range-a4873569949/
Tesla seems to be the most at odds at seasonal range diff.


some info about charging costs.
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/cost-charge-electric-vehicle-explained
Depends on how much you drive and local utility costs.




How do i calculate my savings if I switch to evs?
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.jsp



How much time do ev owners spend on average at dc fastcharging except at tesla superchargers?
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...arging-paid-dc-fast-charging-stations-average
Turns out alot more then a gas owner. 42-78 minutes


Does Teslas cheapest model available start at 65k?
https://www.tesla.com/model3
The current price is $40630. if you qualify for state incentives, fed incentives,well now you might be sitting way lower.


Do your own research folks. This whole one size fits all, Evs bad Ice good, or vice versa is silly.

The heat pump cars were a big improvement to everyone using the tech.

Another article on the topic.

https://insideevs.com/news/696918/ev-range-loss-in-winter/

 

[Torrid]

I swear some here will do anything just to piss and moan about EVs. We get it, you don’t like them. How about you go find something else to occupy your time instead of mucking up actual enthusiasts talking about EVs in the EV section of the site? Seriously it’s an obsession for some of you.

I just can’t with this absolute stupidity. Have fun, I need a break from this crap.

 

[JeffKeryk]

@Torrid haters gonna hate. No biggie. Beyond that, we all see stuff through our own eyes, experiences, etc.
I have owned a Model 3 for over 5 years; I know the reality; reality beats opinion all day long. I also know I live in a Tesla bubble.
I also own both ICE and EV. My Tundra would make a lousy EV and my Tesla would make a lousy pickup.

Don't listen to the "LOL" responses and childish ridicule stuff; it adds nothing of value. There's room for all kinds of cars.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Haha. I'll be 71 in March and am giving serious consideration to hiking Angel's Landing. Surprisingly my wife of 48 years, Sue, is not pushing back on the idea. She's used to my thrill seeking mentality. Zip lining is my new thing, and it's not really that big of a rush. I honestly don't think my heart rate changed at all.

What's your favorite NP?

Scott

View attachment 197505View attachment 197506

If you're interested in raising your heart rate I recommend booking a mule ride down the north rim of the Grand Canyon.

 

[y_p_w]

I hear you on both. Problem with Yosemite is that it's so crowded now. I've been to Yellowstone three times, once while riding my bicycle across country. For whatever reason it has never wow'd me. I suppose one of the things I like about Zion is the town of Springdale. It has everything I want and need when visiting a NP.

Just wanted to add a little more about Yellowstone. We spent 3 nights in Jackson and Grand Teton, followed by 6 nights in Yellowstone. At lot of the time at Yellowstone was just waiting there. At Old Faithful I remember seeing some people just camped out in chairs on the boardwalk waiting for geysers to erupt. I guess I got lucky because I was there when a massive geyser went off, and at the time it was erupting maybe once every 6-14 days. It was like a fire hose compared to Old Faithful being drinking fountain.

We also saw a lot of wildlife. However, mostly it was the sheer number of geothermal features that's the star. If you're not really into that, I don't think the scenery is that great. Now Grand Teton has spectacular scenery.

Last summer my dad was talking about some place to take a Tesla loaner and I was thinking maybe Lassen Volcanic NP since it had some features similar to Yellowstone. However, the big thing there would be Bumpass Hell, which wasn't open yet at the time (they have a lot of snow and typically aren't open until mid to late August) and in any case I don't think my dad could handle the hike in given his physical condition. We went to Redwood instead. That might have been a little bit more difficult for an EV though.

 

[bbhero]

There is nothing factual about that propaganda piece. It was made with the intent to push a narrative which is what any & all major news outfits do.

To suggest otherwise is not worth a conversation.

EVs are now are equivalent to cars in the 1930s… So is the supportive infrastructure for them too. So, those two being a real fact of reality is the way it is currently.

Subject to change some ?

Yes. I believe that is true.

Will a much larger and vastly added on EV power delivery system help in cases like this one ? Yes. Absolutely.

Will EVs possibly gain more real world range with changes in battery elements or compounds used in them over time ? More than likely yes. How much ? Who knows.

Will EVs develop better cooling systems to combat heat while running at high speeds ? Yes… I believe so very strongly.

Which would help the battery accept more charge and a fair amount quicker if it’s kept much cooler while operating at high speed high energy output.

 

[andrew_j]

I will say my experience of EV is thru friends I have ridden with and rabbid EV fans and this reporter is inexperienced.

However in the end a worst sample was friends drive from Montreal to Halifax thru Maine with a BMW. A 13hr ICE road was nearly 18 hrs straight due to cold however mostly due really poor charging infrastructure(plenty but slow) away urban centers in Quebec and poor charging on Northern Maine and New Brunswick.

His ride home he picked a ferry ride which trimmed the ride back by 3 hrs due to skipping charge(s). He also opted to break trip into two on way back so charged his vehicle overnight at hotel saving additional charging/down time.

 

[PandaBear]

Look at what horses vs cars were like 100 years back and find the answer. People complained that you have to go a different route on a car than horse, you can't go "off road", you can't just tie the horse to a tree and let it eats grass, you have to buy gas, you can't ride it in the mud, you can't cross river.

Sure cars were not perfect then but it was more useful than horses, and gradually replaced horses. Road changed, people travel differently, some new towns showed up and old towns went away. EV could easily do the same in the long run (maybe another 20-30 years, maybe 10, maybe 50, who knows).

Right now? You got to drive differently and trust your range anxiety. Cold weather, up hill climb, etc would use more electricity than gas car getting impacted. Charge often, charge early, top off all the time instead of waiting till the end.

Most people say they need towing this and a real truck that, but in the end they are better off driving a corolla on daily commute to save gas. In my area they are $4.4/gal 87 oct and nobody other than people just moved here would drive a pickup for long commute daily, they all switch to something more reasonable and park their pickup at home. EV would be competing with regular cars instead of these pickups and SUVs that does everything, and plug in hybrids.

Just like cars weren't for everyone 100 years ago, EVs today aren't for everyone, but it works very well for a lot of people.

 

[Thermo1223]

Most people say they need towing this and a real truck that, but in the end they are better off driving a corolla on daily commute to save gas. In my area they are $4.4/gal 87 oct and nobody other than people just moved here would drive a pickup for long commute daily, they all switch to something more reasonable and park their pickup at home. EV would be competing with regular cars instead of these pickups and SUVs that does everything, and plug in hybrids.

If it wasn't for not wanting a third car and my commute being so short that the fuel economy with the truck is a wash. I'd have an EV because I would charge it primarily at work for free.

 

[Brons2]

Most people say they need towing this and a real truck that, but in the end they are better off driving a corolla on daily commute to save gas. In my area they are $4.4/gal 87 oct and nobody other than people just moved here would drive a pickup for long commute daily, they all switch to something more reasonable and park their pickup at home. EV would be competing with regular cars instead of these pickups and SUVs that does everything, and plug in hybrids.

The insurance costs will kill any savings if you try to do this. I know some guys IRL who have tried to get a small 'in-town' type car and just keep the truck for the weekend warrior and long camping trip stuff. The economics didn't work.

Also gas is half the price here in Texas so that's another justification for the truck guys.

For me personally, I cannot live with a Corolla or similar compact car. I'm 6'7" and need headroom and legroom. Minimum is probably a Camry. And the Accord does not have enough legroom, and the Sonata enough headroom. Realistically, a crossover is better. but then you get into the arguments whether you're saving enough over a truck to make it worthwhile.

Lots of big bubbas around here like me, although not many quite as tall. I personally don't tow, so the best solution for me would probably be an EV crossover or truck. They just need to come down in price.

 

[proveitwithdata]

The heat pump cars were a big improvement to everyone using the tech.

Another article on the topic.

https://insideevs.com/news/696918/ev-range-loss-in-winter/View attachment 197589

I cant find the model year for the cr long term tester, but did all model y have the octovalve or was that introduced later into production. That would explain the poor cold range

 

[alarmguy]

You can set up facts and omit to make your story better. TV it’s story telling. You can hear them tweaking it for TV even a real EV fan who owns a Tesla Plaid.

If you use an app to plan route it’s better then car software at estimating range as it takes factors such as weather into route

Most EV owner would have plugged the vehicle in overnight even to Level 1 charger which more hotels have.

That all being said it takes longer in EV due to charge times….

SO you agree, you have to plan your trip around an EV, instead of it around you. Thank you, all I am saying based on fact.
The TV presentation was fact.
Im only arguing your opinion on "making the story better" to you, a common sense EV owner that is your view point but not necessarily the viewpoint of the motoring public majority.
Having an EV does involve a loss of convienance for a percentage of the population. This TV story might have saved someone the grief of purchasing an EV in an area where his/her lifestyle doest not fit with the EV lifestyle needed.
My thoughts based on facts whether TV or not.
1. The inability to accurately tell you when you will run out of charge for your car. IN that case a gas gauge works better right?
2. Dont take the best route OR your preferred route using GPS mapping services, take the route needed by the car (the heck with what you would like)so you wont run out of charge.
3. Dont just pull off the road when you want to stop for the night or stay at a place you would like, make sure to either plan ahead when you THINK you will want to rest or run around and seek out a hotel that MIGHT have an open charging station. *LOL*

Even if most owners might have plugged in for the night, that is not all owners who would have or could have. Also admittedly reflects an accurate idea for people who do not stop. It's easy to discount a story by shoehorning in some situations the reporter COULD have done differently, if so then you are admitting EVs have the limitations that they have accurately pointed out.

Look, I have nothing against EVs (except paying for other people to buy them) But lets accurately agree to the limitations.

 

[97prizm]

My favorite? Yosemite. However, Yellowstone was pretty close in terms of awesomeness.

I did Angels Landing over 15 years ago. I was obviously younger and a lot fitter. One issue is the altitude gets to people, and I'd already been at high altitudes (Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Moab) for over a week where I'd adjusted. Best not to look down. I don't think I would consider doing it again even if my body could take it. It's just too crowded most of the time and that impacts safety. It wasn't terribly crowded the day I went up. But apparently this is a typical day now:

Addendum:

I don't like posting photos of myself anywhere, and prefer not to post any photos I've taken where someone can be identified (other than maybe celebrities), so take this for what it's worth. I'm looking in my photos for something showing both how light traffic was that day as well as the exposure risks. There's someone literally sitting right against the edge here. I wouldn't have done that.

View attachment 197511

The south rim of the Grand Canyon is like this. I was a little surprised that there wasn't fencing in alot of places, just signs that said "lose rock watch your step "

 

[demarpaint]

SO you agree, you have to plan your trip around an EV, instead of it around you. Thank you, all I am saying based on fact.
The TV presentation was fact.
Im only arguing your opinion on "making the story better" to you, a common sense EV owner that is your view point but not necessarily the viewpoint of the motoring public majority.
Having an EV does involve a loss of convienance for a percentage of the population. This TV story might have saved someone the grief of purchasing an EV in an area where his/her lifestyle doest not fit with the EV lifestyle needed.
My thoughts based on facts whether TV or not.
1. The inability to accurately tell you when you will run out of charge for your car. IN that case a gas gauge works better right?
2. Dont take the best route OR your preferred route using GPS mapping services, take the route needed by the car (the heck with what you would like)so you wont run out of charge.
3. Dont just pull off the road when you want to stop for the night or stay at a place you would like, make sure to either plan ahead when you want to rest or run around and seek out a hotel that MIGHT have an open charging station. *LOL*

Even if most owners might have plugged in for the night, that is not all owners who would have or could have. Also admittedly reflects an accurate idea for people who do not stop.

Come on man you're making sense here!! When an EV can charge as quickly and reliably as I can gas up, and without me having to give it anymore thought than looking at a gas gauge and pulling into one of the tens of thousands of gas stations spread out over the USA maybe we can talk, until then no thanks.