READ PLEASE! 5w20 vs 5w30 engine life? opinions ?

[turtlevette]

I would be concerned about 0w-20 or 5w-20 film strength breaking down at 300 degrees. Wouldn't want 0/5w-30 either. Sustained high rpms makes oil get really hot in apps such as towing up a hill or driving on the Autobahn.

I learned this when my jet boat oil ran at 300deg F at a steady 6000rpm no matter what the water temp was. Turning up the cooling water to get the block stone cold made no difference. People without oil coolers were spinning rod bearings. I had to add a raw water to oil cooler to get the oil temps down.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a thicker oil is a crutch to get you through extreme situations when you have no oil cooler. I think that's why you see the European sports cars recommending much heavier oils. They know people are going to drive them fast for long periods, which we can't do here save for road racing. And those sessions usually last only 20 minutes.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Caterham
Case in point is the new Toyota 86GT and it's BRZ and FR-S clones. The 0W-20 grade is specified for world wide use and nothing else.


What oil are they using in OZ in the Toyota 86 GT, and its BRZ and FR-S clones?

 

[Gokhan]

2013 FR-S oil recommendation per the OEM repair manual:

LUBRICANT
Standard Oil Grade

OIL GRADE -- OIL VISCOSITY (SAE)
API grade SL "energy-conserving", SM "energy-conserving", SN "resource-conserving" or ILSAC multigrade engine oil -- 0W-20 or 5W-30
API grade SL, SM or SN multigrade engine oil -- 5W-20

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
2013 FR-S oil recommendation per the OEM repair manual:

LUBRICANT
Standard Oil Grade

OIL GRADE -- OIL VISCOSITY (SAE)
API grade SL "energy-conserving", SM "energy-conserving", SN "resource-conserving" or ILSAC multigrade engine oil -- 0W-20 or 5W-30
API grade SL, SM or SN multigrade engine oil -- 5W-20


So then it isn't 0W20 for worldwide use and nothing else?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Caterham
Case in point is the new Toyota 86GT and it's BRZ and FR-S clones. The 0W-20 grade is specified for world wide use and nothing else.


What oil are they using in OZ in the Toyota 86 GT, and its BRZ and FR-S clones?

Yes TGMO 0W-20 is the recommended oil for the GT86 in OZ and is imported specifically for that model.

But I'll rephrase the above quote. 0W-20 is the preferred recommended grade and TGMO 0W-20 is made available for the model everywhere the car is sold around the world.`

I should also add that the car's ECU is programmed for the OEM 0W-20 grade. As a result power begins to be modified at relatively low oil temp's in the 225F area although oil temp's can soar as high as 300F I've heard.
Consequently there is no point in running anything heavier as it could exacerbate the rise in oil temp's.
The solution for those that track their car is the installation of an oil cooler as discovered by the following Florida member's post:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3151637/

 

[Trav]

Subaru Germany specs 0w30 as the primary oil in all 2010 and later 2.0 non turbo engines including the new BRZ with 5w30 as the alternative. Remember this is Euro 0w30 with a higher HTHS.

The ecm is not programed specifically for 0w20.
This engine was designed for 0w20-5w30 depending on use and location.

Per..
SUBARU Deutschland GmbH

Edit: I will get physical confirmation from a German manual when I am there as this was a phone conversation.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I should also add that the car's ECU is programmed for the OEM 0W-20 grade. As a result power begins to be modified at relatively low oil temp's in the 225F area although oil temp's can soar as high as 300F I've heard.


So they intentionally offered a lighter oil, that they know ceases offering full protection at relatively low temperatures, that are achievable by owners...then neuter the power delivery to avoid damage.

Doesn't sound like sound design engineering OR protecting the customer's interests.

OTC...Castrol recommends 5W-30 fuel saver Magnatec for this car (as we've learned in this thread, 30 is really 20 anyway), Mobil recommend a variety of 20s and 30s

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes TGMO 0W-20 is the recommended oil for the GT86 in OZ and is imported specifically for that model.


Interesting that car manufacturers CAN get oil to the backwaters...cool.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes TGMO 0W-20 is the recommended oil for the GT86 in OZ and is imported specifically for that model.


Interesting that car manufacturers CAN get oil to the backwaters...cool.


For someone always harping on straw men, you seem to be the king of it...

I don't recall anyone ever saying that a company *can't* get a specific lubricant to a specific country; having something readily-available enough to require it is hardly the same thing as making it available. Of course, you know that, but you keep putting up this straw man at every possibility. Why?

 

[Shannow]

Because, as I've explained over and over, it's a response to the ongoing statement that of course the manuals don't have 20s in Australia, because they can't get get them in that country, along with the statement that 20s provide better protection.

If the companies honestly thought that the 20s provided better protection, then they would ensure that the oils were provided here.

Toyota in question have been using 20s for ages in the US, but never saw fit to ensure that this was available in Australia, which leads me to two understandings
* it either is being driven by the desire for economy in the US and Carbon tax in Japan, both of which are consistent with the arguments of API, FOrd, Honda etc.;
* it's not offering better protection...

 

[CarbonSteel]

Fixed it for ya:

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Because, as I've explained over and over, it's a response to the ongoing statement that of course the manuals don't have 20s in Australia, because they can't get get them in that country, along with the statement that 20s provide better protection.

If the companies honestly thought that the 20s provided better protection, then they would ensure that the oils were provided here.

Toyota in question have been using 20s for ages in the US, but never saw fit to ensure that this was available in Australia, which leads me to two understandings assumptions
* it either is being driven by the desire for economy in the US and Carbon tax in Japan, both of which are consistent with the arguments of API, FOrd, Honda etc.;
* it's not offering better protection...

 

[Errtt]

I have PP 5w-20 and PP 5w-30. Maybe I should mix 50/50 and get the best of both.
Book and fill cap states 5w-20, book also adds 5w-30 and 10w-30 as recommended for higher temps.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Fixed it for ya:

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Because, as I've explained over and over, it's a response to the ongoing statement that of course the manuals don't have 20s in Australia, because they can't get get them in that country, along with the statement that 20s provide better protection.

If the companies honestly thought that the 20s provided better protection, then they would ensure that the oils were provided here.

Toyota in question have been using 20s for ages in the US, but never saw fit to ensure that this was available in Australia, which leads me to two understandings assumptions
* it either is being driven by the desire for economy in the US and Carbon tax in Japan, both of which are consistent with the arguments of API, FOrd, Honda etc.;
* it's not offering better protection...


Hey, I'm comfortable with that, as it then applies to 16 pages of thread of assumptions...only real facts in the thread are statements pulled directly from service manuals...

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Hey, I'm comfortable with that, as it then applies to 16 pages of thread of assumptions...only real facts in the thread are statements pulled directly from service manuals...

hehehe...I knew that you would be else I would not have done it.

PS...Happy New Year!

 

[Shannow]

Cheers your way also...

 

[SilverC6]

Drain the oil.

On the cap on the engine, there is a picture for people who can't read showing the grade of oil you should use.

Open the oil bottle and pour the new oil in the engine hole.

Repeat in 5000 miles.

It's really that simple.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes TGMO 0W-20 is the recommended oil for the GT86 in OZ and is imported specifically for that model.


Interesting that car manufacturers CAN get oil to the backwaters...cool.


That's what I was thinking, why is this vehicle so special? Then the same grade oil isn't available for other vehicles in OZ, or it's extremely difficult to get for them?

Happy New Year!

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I should also add that the car's ECU is programmed for the OEM 0W-20 grade. As a result power begins to be modified at relatively low oil temp's in the 225F area although oil temp's can soar as high as 300F I've heard.


So they intentionally offered a lighter oil, that they know ceases offering full protection at relatively low temperatures, that are achievable by owners...then neuter the power delivery to avoid damage.

Doesn't sound like sound design engineering OR protecting the customer's interests.

That would be the perspective of one with a thick oil biase and of course you couldn't be more wrong.

A light oil is specified to maximize engine efficiency including minimizing engine wear because it more than sufficiently viscous for 100% of normal operating conditions.
Programming the ECU to safely deal with higher oil temp's under extreme operating conditions instead of installing an oil cooler is a valid and appropriate engineering solution and it's not just kowtowing to the bean counters if 99% of buyers won't benefit. Specifying a heavier oil grade would be very poor antiquated old school solution.

 

[Shannow]

Do they advertise the vehicle as having so many KW ?

Do they then have a disclaimer that you can only use those KW for a limited amount of time before the system goes into neutered performance mode ?

Probably not...

I've no problem with engines limping in a failed system mode, like a cooling system failure etc....but this is stating that the lubrication system has failed, and needs to be limped for engine , all within the range of performance envelope that the car is capable of delivering.

 

[CATERHAM]

Regardless of oil temp's, the engine in a car that is routinely tracked at maximum rev's will not live as long as the engine in a car that is conservatively street driven.
Do sports car manufacturers provide a disclaimer not to take to track your car? No.

Ford spec's 5W-20 for their 402hp Mustang GT.
The electronic safety management systems will eventually kick-in at some oil temp' north of 230F. Ford does offer an optional oil cooler but state that it is not necessary for cars that are occasionally tracked as some members will attest to.

My point is, if your are tracking your car and generating oil temp's high enough to frequently trigger the electronic safeties then install an oil cooler, if for no other reason than to maintain maximum power. In this day and age there are better engineering solutions than running heavy oil just because one might see high oil temp's under some extreme usage.