READ PLEASE! 5w20 vs 5w30 engine life? opinions ?

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: nepadriver
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: nepadriver

This is what you are saying. Its hilarious. They use something else, the manufacturer (be it car or electronic device) need to meet the standards of the region.

Did you know the TVs in Europe don't use the same refresh rate as TV's in the US?

!Hint: Sony/Samsung etc make different TVs for use in Europe and North America. The [censored]



Soo what's your point??? Their TV system is a different standard at least partially dictated by the 220v, 50Hz current used in Europe... Not comparable by a long shot and certinaly not the same as different oil speced for the same US engine when used in their country...


My point is that the standard used in a given country needs to be met by the manufacturer shipping product to said country.

Always has been, always will be.

Seems some people want the manufacturer of a car, to change ALL existing oil standards in ALL countries around the world and do so immediately. They fail to grasp that the car company and oil company are different entities with different sometimes conflicting goals.


It's just like asking Sony to change broadcast standards in Europe to match North America for TV's they ship to Europe. What the [censored] do they have to do with each other? Its ludicrous.

Hilarious, especially when some of the same people think there is no cost, no effort, otherwise if not done immediately and overnight it must be part of some grand conspiracy theory.

Why bother understanding the complexities ? Just make [censored] up and blame the Iluminati (or whatever), its easier and satisfies a base desire.

I own an LG HDTV. Is it any good?

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: nepadriver
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: nepadriver

This is what you are saying. Its hilarious. They use something else, the manufacturer (be it car or electronic device) need to meet the standards of the region.

Did you know the TVs in Europe don't use the same refresh rate as TV's in the US?

!Hint: Sony/Samsung etc make different TVs for use in Europe and North America. The [censored]



Soo what's your point??? Their TV system is a different standard at least partially dictated by the 220v, 50Hz current used in Europe... Not comparable by a long shot and certinaly not the same as different oil speced for the same US engine when used in their country...


My point is that the standard used in a given country needs to be met by the manufacturer shipping product to said country.

Always has been, always will be.

Seems some people want the manufacturer of a car, to change ALL existing oil standards in ALL countries around the world and do so immediately. They fail to grasp that the car company and oil company are different entities with different sometimes conflicting goals.


It's just like asking Sony to change broadcast standards in Europe to match North America for TV's they ship to Europe. What the [censored] do they have to do with each other? Its ludicrous.

Hilarious, especially when some of the same people think there is no cost, no effort, otherwise if not done immediately and overnight it must be part of some grand conspiracy theory.

Why bother understanding the complexities ? Just make [censored] up and blame the Iluminati (or whatever), its easier and satisfies a base desire.


Why would Sony want to change Europe's std to US??? Japan's is different from either why not use the "mother country" std???

Argue if you want but the TV std comparison is a totally different subject with no bearing...

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

I own an LG HDTV. Is it any good?

Man I dunno, I have a Samsung, Panasonic & Sharp...

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Saying that the manufacturers should put cases of oil in the trunk reeks of common sense? Are you kidding?


Come on...is that what I actually said ?

I said that if they can get a car here, they can get oil here too if they genuinely thought that the car required it.

 

[kschachn]

That's not what you said either. You said:

"If they can import entire cars to these locations, they could throw a case of xW-20 in the boot if they felt that it was genuinely good for the vehicle and owner."

"genuinely good for the vehicle and owner" is different than if "the car required it". I was mostly looking at what you wrote as saying that it wasn't genuinely good for the vehicle nor the owner. I guess if you really think that it is detrimental in the long run you would say that. I just don't see that it is.

The car doesn't require it, I'm not sure why people keep harping on that. I'll wager that no mater how vigorously the manufacturer says you need -20 oil, it will run on -30 just fine. That isn't the point. The point keeps being whether that -20 oils are some kind of engineering concession to CAFE that are ultimately detrimental to engine longevity.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Saying that the manufacturers should put cases of oil in the trunk reeks of common sense? Are you kidding?


Come on...is that what I actually said ?

I said that if they can get a car here, they can get oil here too if they genuinely thought that the car required it.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
That's not what you said either. You said:

"If they can import entire cars to these locations, they could throw a case of xW-20 in the boot if they felt that it was genuinely good for the vehicle and owner."

"genuinely good for the vehicle and owner" is different than if "the car required it". I guess I was mostly looking at what you wrote as saying that it wasn't genuinely good for the vehicle nor the owner. I guess if you really think that it is detrimental in the long run you would say that. I just don't see that it is.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Saying that the manufacturers should put cases of oil in the trunk reeks of common sense? Are you kidding?


Come on...is that what I actually said ?

I said that if they can get a car here, they can get oil here too if they genuinely thought that the car required it.


I got where he was coming from. If the oil grade was crucial to optimal operation, the oil would be there. Unless there is a conspiracy to have cars fail earlier in that part of the world.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: kschachn
That's not what you said either. You said:

"If they can import entire cars to these locations, they could throw a case of xW-20 in the boot if they felt that it was genuinely good for the vehicle and owner."

"genuinely good for the vehicle and owner" is different than if "the car required it". I guess I was mostly looking at what you wrote as saying that it wasn't genuinely good for the vehicle nor the owner. I guess if you really think that it is detrimental in the long run you would say that. I just don't see that it is.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Saying that the manufacturers should put cases of oil in the trunk reeks of common sense? Are you kidding?


Come on...is that what I actually said ?

I said that if they can get a car here, they can get oil here too if they genuinely thought that the car required it.


I got where he was coming from. If the oil grade was crucial to optimal operation, the oil would be there. Unless there is a conspiracy to have cars fail earlier in that part of the world.

Please tell me my engine won't fall out from my truck, being I am using 5W30 instead of 5W20!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
BlueOvalFitter - Your motor won't fall out from your truck because you are using 5W-30 instead of 5W-20

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: nepadriver
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete

You aren't making any arguments that haven't been made on here many, many times before.


So your argument is that, without any cost and little benefit, corporations should mandate all 6 billion people on planet Earth should drop the steady supply of oil for the majority of their automobiles on the road, to accommodate the new automobiles coming to them , and do so immediately, and there will be no cost to do so, to anyone. OK....

Question: How much international travel, outside of the US , Mexico and Canada do you do? How many contracts with foreign governments and corporations have you negotiated? How many were signed and implemented? I do so regularly in Central/South America, not for oil, but its irrelevant on the product or service (some of the time).

In Chile a different, more European (in fact identical IIRC), outlet/plug is used. I bring an adapter with me when I travel there on business. I've got an idea! Why not convert them all over the the plug more common in the US and Canada! We can do so without cost, plugs already exist there! Every electronic device in service should do so now. All future imports should do so as well! Seem ridiculous?

This is what you are saying. Its hilarious. They use something else, the manufacturer (be it car or electronic device) need to meet the standards of the region.

Did you know the TVs in Europe don't use the same refresh rate as TV's in the US?

Hint: Sony/Samsung etc make different TVs for use in Europe and North America. The [censored]!

I bring up Dogs and Cats and flying them to Hawaii to point out the complexities of hiding products in trunks. Its one of the stupidest things I have ever heard, unless you are a cocaine smuggler. Countries and states have these things called "laws" and "regulations". You can skip them and try to skirt past customs, or spend a boat load of cash to setup new contracts to import new products and pay massive taxes on those products. For little to no gain.

For example, the $400(in the US) PS4 costs $2000 in Brazil. Why? Taxes. Import taxes. If you assemble your product there it would cost consumers less. Microsoft does it with their Xbox to make the price more attractive. To do this with oil you would need to refine it there. Of course there is no cost to a corporation to do that, right? And massive benefit, right? No there is massive cost and little benefit. That is why its not done "overnight" , it will take decades.

Hint: Importing new types of oil is not the same as importing the same grade of oil already in use with an existing license/contract/bribe. Neither is refining it in another region of the globe. They are different products with different SKUs etc.

If a car runs fine on 10w-30 in Brazil (example) why "change the world overnight" to have them start using 5w-20?

Heck, its not even the only oil weight used in the US, last chart I saw 30w still more popular. By a large margin.


You type a lot and say very little about the topic at hand. We aren't discussing spark plugs, televisions, electric outlets, pets, or PS 4's. We are only talking about motor oil.

You don't seem to be aware the major companies already ship oil to every country in the world, abiding by the import laws and paying the appropriate taxes and duties in every country. The supply chain is already there. There is no additional cost in shipping a case of 20 grade instead of a case of 50 grade. There would also be no problem using that 20 grade oil in any engine that uses it in another part of the world.

If you have another reply, it would be great if you could stick to the topic. The tangents and condescension are tiresome.

 

[CATERHAM]

You're missing the point entirely.
There is an implied assumption that there's some benefit to running a grade heavier than specified oil when there is no lubrication benefit whatsoever, just lubrication disadvantages.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
CATERHAM - An example of International oil viscosity specifications is the GM Cruze 1.8 - an engine made in Mexico, Korea and Hungary. The lubricants "must" be Dexos 1 compliant

Mobil 1 recommendations:
In Germany 0W-40 with 5W-30 as an alternative
In OZ 5W-30 (current temp today is up to 48C (118F) here in QLD)
In US 0W-20

In the mix 5W-40 is also allowed IIRC if Dexos Licenced lubricants are not available

Obviously geographic application is a factor as well may be product availability. For instance in China where these engines are sold the most common lubrican00st are Grp 1 & 2 with increasing supplies of Grp 3 becoming available

In the overall geographic/cultural mix these engines will survive similarly given their individual application

I always believe that the lightest viscosity recommended by the Manufacturer offers the most benefits to the Owner in an overall sense

 

[kschachn]

Why do you keep saying that? It's not the question at hand, nor in the 1,000,000 other threads we have had on this same subject. It's the other way around.

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Please tell me my engine won't fall out from my truck, being I am using 5W30 instead of 5W20!

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why do you keep saying that? It's not the question at hand, nor in the 1,000,000 other threads we have had on this same subject. It's the other way around.

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Please tell me my engine won't fall out from my truck, being I am using 5W30 instead of 5W20!

I know. I just love the fact that some people are so anal about 5W20 that I just like to rattle their cages just a bit. But, it's all in good fun.
But, just be careful; the BITOG 5W20 Police might be monitoring this.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: fpracha
Agree 100% to Gokhan and Garak both logic sound reasoning and practical !

Originally Posted By: JOD
Having monitored oil temperatures under a pretty wide range of ambient temperatures and operating conditions, I totally see the logic in recommending a single grade of oil. I realize that doesn't fit the "CAFE is ruining my engine" narrative, but modern engines operate in pretty narrow range of temperatures when running--regardless of conditions, and there's plenty of headroom in the mfg's recommendations.

Yes agree. Naturally there has to be "plenty of headroom in the mfg's recommendations" in order to accommodate different driving styles(more important in terms of wear control) and the ambient temperatures.
The question is : are you considering "loading conditions" on the engine and the external contamination severity (how dusty or smoky or humid the environment is where the vehicle is being driven) before reaching you conclusion here ?


In my case, yes. I've had my vehicle (over)loaded to the mfg's recommended maximum capacity, along with 6 bikes attached to the roof creating a fair bit of drag, going up the sort of extended grades most people in the country just won't see, in >100 degree temps. Oil temperatures just didn't get high enough to be of any concern--the cooling system did its job. Besides, there are other failsafe systems built into the engine should it overheat. So, as I said, I'm comfortable w/the mfg's recommendation.

 

[kschachn]

Nah, 5W-20 is OK. It's the 0W-20 because it's so thin

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I know. I just love the fact that some people are so anal about 5W20 that I just like to rattle their cages just a bit. But, it's all in good fun.
But, just be careful; the BITOG 5W20 Police might be monitoring this.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nah, 5W-20 is OK. It's the 0W-20 because it's so thin

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I know. I just love the fact that some people are so anal about 5W20 that I just like to rattle their cages just a bit. But, it's all in good fun.
But, just be careful; the BITOG 5W20 Police might be monitoring this.

Yeah, you just as soon pour water in the engine. It's cheaper.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
One word... CAFE

Even if that were the case (and Shannow already showed the blame lies clearly at the feet of the Japanese

), is that a bad thing? Just because a change came from an odd source doesn't automatically make it a bad change.

If your mechanic suggested you eat more vegetables and fruits, is that bad advice because it came from a mechanic and you'll do the opposite and eat more fatty foods and cut your exercise?

And, as others have pointed out, geography and culture do play a role, whether we want to admit it or not. Some parts of the world have used thicker grades for many years and are reluctant to accept change. Some of these places also see ridiculous prices charged for lighter grades, in addition to having expensive oil in the first place. Do not ignore the price issue. Look at the "culture of the north." Out of practicality and experience, no one up here is going to use a monograde unless it's absolutely necessary. Heck, a lot of our American posters from southern states would recommend a thinner grade up north, in the northern states and Canada, perhaps even thinner than what I'd consider necessary. And believe me, switching seasonally gets old really fast.

I'm going to hold people's feet to the fire on the issue of getting 20 grades down under or elsewhere, how if the manufacturers thought it was so necessary, they'd do so. In the same vein, if SOPUS thought that Pennzoil Ultra was such a great product, they'd have it readily available in Canada (not to mention the States). Instead, we have a circle of high prices, low availability, retailer disinterest, and lack of oil company commitment, all feeding upon itself to ensure it's next to impossible to find the product.

None of these arguments has any relevance in any other oil markets? Aussies already pay enough for oil. We see they pay an additional premium for certain grades, too. Would we expect retailers there to jump at the chance to stock 0w-20s across the board when they know the 15w-40 that's already on the shelf will sell? Would we see customers rush to buy the product, required, allowed, or otherwise? We have enough people in North America fighting dexos1, even though it may be the same 5w-30 they were using all along. What do you think would happen if a large oil company in Australia took Imperial Oil's Mobil Canadian conventional PCMO strategy and only offered 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30?

Why can't Mobil supply conventional monograde PCMOS or 10w-40 or 20w-50 to Canada? Because someone in Imperial Oil realized that marketing such products up here makes about as much sense these days as pushing 0w-20 in Australia would right now. Don't discount timing. Certain grades have come and gone in Canada. Some maybe just haven't had their time yet in other countries.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
CATERHAM - An example of International oil viscosity specifications is the GM Cruze 1.8 - an engine made in Mexico, Korea and Hungary. The lubricants "must" be Dexos 1 compliant

Mobil 1 recommendations:
In Germany 0W-40 with 5W-30 as an alternative
In OZ 5W-30 (current temp today is up to 48C (118F) here in QLD)
In US 0W-20

In the mix 5W-40 is also allowed IIRC if Dexos Licenced lubricants are not available

Obviously geographic application is a factor as well may be product availability. For instance in China where these engines are sold the most common lubrican00st are Grp 1 & 2 with increasing supplies of Grp 3 becoming available

In the overall geographic/cultural mix these engines will survive similarly given their individual application

I always believe that the lightest viscosity recommended by the Manufacturer offers the most benefits to the Owner in an overall sense

Doug I fully agree.
If one wants to use the most efficient lubricant specified for an engine, use the lightest oil specified for that engine anywhere in the world and that invariably is a country that has ready access to the most advanced lubricates such as NA, Japan and Europe.
One should not assume just because a heavier lower quality oil may be specified in some less well developed parts of the world it has some preferred lubrication advantage because it doesn't.
What one can rightly conclude is that heavier oils grades can perform acceptably in a warmer climate but nothing more than that.

It worth noting that higher end models and those with more of a specialty interest tend to stick to a more specific list of synthetic lubricants.
Case in point is the new Toyota 86GT and it's BRZ and FR-S clones. The 0W-20 grade is specified for world wide use and nothing else.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Caterham
Case in point is the new Toyota 86GT and it's BRZ and FR-S clones. The 0W-20 grade is specified for world wide use and nothing else.


Not true. 5w30 is an allowed alternative when subjected to high speed operation, I know this from reading the Toyota chart at the dealer. .

Quote:
Fabrikat
TOYOTA
Modell
GT86 2.0 (4U-GSE 147kW)
Motor
B
Jahr
2012-
Anwendung Empfehlung Kapazität (l)
Motor (B) 1. Wahl Mobil 1 0W-20 (a) 5.4 2. Wahl Mobil Super 3000 XE 5W-30
Hinweise Schmiermittel/Kapazität
a. Alternative Empfehlungen: 5W-30

 

[crazyoildude]

5w20 hits that overhead cam a little faster than most 5w30's

 

[Shannow]

Little being the operative word...

Most if the wear still occurs while the oil is there, during warm-up anyway