Talk Some Sense into an Oil Thickie?

[blupupher]

No, We all want to think we are smarter than every engineer at Honda.

But it is not just about engineering.

There is no question that 0w-20 has been brought about by CAFE requirements.
Is 0w-20 good enough to get them their MPG goals, yes.
Is it good enough to get the vehicle through the warranty period, yup.
Are the engineers worried about how long the vehicle will last after the warranty is up? Probably not.

So this really is the question, is 0w-20 good enough to keep the engine and turbo problem free (as far as lubrication goes) for many years after the warranty is up?

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

But it is not just about engineering.

There is no question that 0w-20 has been brought about by CAFE requirements.
Is 0w-20 good enough to get them their MPG goals, yes.
Is it good enough to get the vehicle through the warranty period, yup.
Are the engineers worried about how long the vehicle will last after the warranty is up? Probably not.

So this really is the question, is 0w-20 good enough to keep the engine and turbo problem free (as far as lubrication goes) for many years after the warranty is up?

LOL just a couple more years and we'll see how many of them hit 300 K miles plus!

 

[ron17571]

My dad once told me they used 5w in Indy cars, something about it flowing better and dissipating heat better. I like the 0-30 idea, just say you use the thinner stuff.

 

[Astro14]

As the oil warms the VII maintains viscosity, at what temp is 0 equal to 5. And is it of any importance. Wouldn`t the higher number be of most relevance esp for fuel efficiency. I differ to those who know more than I which is most everyone on this site.

That’s not how it works at all. Viscosity isn’t ”maintained” by the VII. The viscosity, the absolute viscosity, is dropping as the oil warms up and the VII is simply slowing that drop.

When the 0W whatever is at room temp, not even cold, but room temp, it’s still many times thicker than it will be at operating temperature. So, until it warms up, it’s way thicker, regardless of whether it’s a 5W or a 0W, and it’s not going to make much difference during warm up.

 

[RedSpider]

No, We all want to think we are smarter than every engineer at Honda.

Having experienced working in an engine design division of a major U.S. manufacturer, I can say with no ambiguity whatsoever that what the engineers recommend and what gets recommended to the consumer are often very, very, very different.

 

[CKN]

Can you talk some sense into me? I recently bought a 2023 Acura Integra, basically Acura's version of the Civic Si. I've got 900 miles on it and am thinking of doing the first oil change this weekend. I just can't wrap my mind around using 0W-20 in a turbocharged engine that will see a lot of high revs.

I joined this site in 2003 and always watched the 20 weight debates from afar. This is the first time I've ever had to run a 20 weight, now I'm conflicted! I know that millions of engines have lived long and productive lives on 0W-20, and that this Honda L15CA may have been designed with 0W-20 in mind. But I also know that I will drive this harder than a typical commuter, and that the EPA requires them to state that only 0W-20 should be used, regardless of what the engineers would prefer, and that thicker oils are specified in other markets that don't have this EPA requirement.

As of right now I'm planning to find a fully synthetic SP rated 0W-30, with the highest HTHS and lowest NOACK numbers I can find. Am I crazy?

So-I guess if you think it will harm your motor you don't want to hear about my truck pulling a 5,000 pound travel trailer up a 6,000 foot mountain pass at 95 degree ambient temperature this past week with the motor revving at 4,5000 rpm-running 0w/20 and it has 50,000 miles on it.

Your application is mild.

 

[jetman]

0-20 and 0-40 have the same viscosity at operating temp. The difference between the two is their viscosity at startup. and until they reach operating temp.

 

[kschachn]

0-20 and 0-40 have the same viscosity at operating temp. The difference between the two is their viscosity at startup. and until they reach operating temp.

What? One is a 20-grade whereas the other is a 40-grade. They do NOT have the same operating viscosity.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I just looked at my 2021 Silverado's owners manual:....

Caution
Failure to use the recommended engine oil or equivalent can result in engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty.

Why is that not the required engine oil then ? ! What is the equivalent to recommended?

They are like referencing API, Dexos and ILSAC certification.
NOT oil grade.

You are doing good, IMO.

 

[ammolab]

0-20 and 0-40 have the same viscosity at operating temp. The difference between the two is their viscosity at startup. and until they reach operating temp.

Do you mean 0W-20 and 5W-20 have the same viscosity at operating temp….that would be valid.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I’ve run 0-30 for 10+ years in my Honda which is specked for 0-20. Makes me feel better when driving in very hot weather.

Does the 0-30 make the A/C run cooler?

note of caution: 0-30 is not an SAE multigrade motor oil

 

[TiGeo]

In before "manufacturer's only recommend oil to get through the warranty period then don't care" and "engineers recommend x but that's not what ends up being used"....oppps....too late....

 

[TiGeo]

0-20 and 0-40 have the same viscosity at operating temp. The difference between the two is their viscosity at startup. and until they reach operating temp.

Huh?

 

[bluesubie]

Having experienced working in an engine design division of a major U.S. manufacturer, I can say with no ambiguity whatsoever that what the engineers recommend and what gets recommended to the consumer are often very, very, very different.

I love @edhackett 's signature line.

"Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers".

 

[carviewsonic]

Does the 0-30 make the A/C run cooler?

note of caution: 0-30 is not an SAE multigrade motor oil

No, but it does help reduce symptoms of OCD when used in the prescribed amount in the crankcase.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

As the oil warms the VII maintains viscosity, at what temp is 0 equal to 5. And is it of any importance. Wouldn`t the higher number be of most relevance esp for fuel efficiency. I differ to those who know more than I which is most everyone on this site.

Blame API and SAE for the multi-grade confusion for the layperson.

Instead of 0, 5, 10, 15 & 20W- It should be: VEC, EC, XC, VC and C or something of that sort, so that Joe Consumer is not thinking of a KV100 viscosity relationship when looking at winter ratings - which does not really have anything to do with viscosity per se where there may have been just the slightest relation to it at the beginning on the 50's. E.g:

"Now, with Super Smutz Motor-N-Oil you no longer have to change your oil to a 20W when old man winter comes roaring in! Just run Smutz All Climate 10W-30 and you will have the cold starting benefit of an easy flowing 10W grade but with the hard driving protection of a SAE 30 grade!

Look for Super Smutz All Climate at you local service center today. And If they don't carry it, ask "Why not?" then go somewhere that does, because they are surely the smartest grease monkey in town!"

- Ken

 

[TiGeo]

Blame API and SAE for the multi-grade confusion for the layperson.

Instead of 0, 5, 10, 15 & 20W- It should be: VEC, EC, XC, VC and C or something of that sort, so that Joe Consumer is not thinking of a KV100 viscosity relationship when looking at winter ratings - which does not really have anything to do with viscosity per se where there may have been just the slightest relation to it at the beginning on the 50's. E.g:

"Now, with Super Smutz Motor-N-Oil you no longer have to change your oil to a 20W when old man winter comes roaring in! Just run Smutz All Climate 10W-30 and you will have the cold starting benefit of an easy flowing 10W grade but with the hard driving protection of a SAE 30 grade!

Look for Super Smutz All Climate at you local service center today. And If they don't carry it, ask "Why not?" then go somewhere that does, because they are surely the smartest grease monkey in town!"

- Ken

"Bro, I'm not running that watery oil in my car....0W40...phhhhhh.....0W.....are you crazy?" - litterally every online car community

 

[MacManus99]

Doesn't the Lotus Evora use that same Toyota Supra engine? I've read that the Evora recommends 5w40.

The A90 Supra is actually running a BMW B58 engine, while the Evora uses a Toyota 2GR variant that is supercharged, iirc. Both great engines, but oil requirements between the two are certainly not parallel.

 

[BornSlippy]

"Bro, I'm not running that watery oil in my car....0W40...phhhhhh.....0W.....are you crazy?" - litterally every online car community

I took in some M1 0W-40 into a local shop (it was too cold out!) to change the oil on my 2019 5.7L HEMI.

The mechanic argued with me about using the "ZERO" weight in the HEMI. "IT"S TOO THIN FOR THAT ENGINE! I AM NOT PUTTING IT IN!"

After much back and forth, he said they would put on the invoice and report it on the CARFAX that customer was advised that "ZERO" is the wrong weight of oil for this vehicle.

Not once did he mention anything about the 40, he was apoplectic only about the "ZERO". This coming from a mechanic of 25+ years.

 

[TiGeo]

I took in some M1 0W-40 into a local shop (it was too cold out!) to change the oil on my 2019 5.7L HEMI.

The mechanic argued with me about using the "ZERO" weight in the HEMI. "IT"S TOO THIN FOR THAT ENGINE! I AM NOT PUTTING IT IN!"

After much back and forth, he said they would put on the invoice and report it on the CARFAX that customer was advised that "ZERO" is the wrong weight of oil for this vehicle.

Not once did he mention anything about the 40, he was apoplectic only about the "ZERO". This coming from a mechanic of 25+ years.

100%....I hear it all the time and it's hilarious yet it's used in race cars....HAAHAHAHAHA