Talk about running HOT!

[Falcon_LS]

Friend of mine called me the other day, after his '97 Suburban C2500 (Vortec 7400) broke down. Wasn't exactly very convenient at the time, considering I was washing the dog with the other half and I had 6 missed calls by the time I got to the phone.

I had a feeling this was coolant related by the way he described - "there was no acceleration and the engine shut down". Pulled off the radiator cap (which let off a lot of steam for 5 minutes or so) when I got there and it took roughly 4.5 gallons of 50/50 mixed coolant before I could bring it up to the full level. The engine would just crank at first, and only started after opening the throttle plate slightly. Didn't seem to be running right, so I got it on a flatbed and let it sit overnight before I started work on it yesterday.

The radiator was leaking from 7 different spots, and the coolant bypass adapter located right behind the alternator. Spent the whole day yesterday replacing the radiator, all coolant hoses, thermostat and coolant temperature sensor, which shot out the engine. The coolant temperature gauge wouldn't register a reading, so when I decided to check it, there was no sensor there - the threads were stuck inside, but the sensor itself was nowhere to be found. Boy was it a job taking the stuck threads off.

When I was done I decided to change the oil, and let it drain whilst I fill up the cooling system. As I was I was pouring coolant into the radiator, it was draining out the oil pan at the same rate! It's like the drain petcock was off the radiator and I was trying to fill up it. The engine's in for a cylinder head job at the moment, which will run him $850 if the heads aren't cracked. I think rebuilding the bottom end wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. It's a shame though, considering the engine has less than 130,000 km (81,250 miles) on the clock.

 

[Garak]

Yep, that's hot.

Something similarly catastrophic happened to a friend of mine's midsized Marquis last year. The coolant wasn't draining out the oil pan so much as at the outboard side of the head gasket, but the result was pretty much the same. In my friend's case, the Marquis was effectively garbage. At least your buddy's vehicle is worth fixing!

 

[demarpaint]

If he needs bottom end work it might pay to look for an engine from a low mileage wreck, especially if he can't do the engine work himself. It all depends on how bad his engine is.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Yep, that's hot.

Something similarly catastrophic happened to a friend of mine's midsized Marquis last year. The coolant wasn't draining out the oil pan so much as at the outboard side of the head gasket, but the result was pretty much the same. In my friend's case, the Marquis was effectively garbage. At least your buddy's vehicle is worth fixing!


Ouch, that sounds bad. What year was the car? Starting in 1998, Ford equipped the Panthers with fail-safe cooling, which does come in pretty helpful in situations like these.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
If he needs bottom end work it might pay to look for an engine from a low mileage wreck, especially if he can't do the engine work himself. It all depends on how bad his engine is.


With the way people do maintenance here, and the sub par quality of oil, I would really steer away from a used engine - unless it's a used engine imported from the US, which tends to be cleaner on the inside. In both situations, the mileage from the donor vehicle is always unknown - unless they pull the engine when you're there and you can record the mileage if the cluster is still on the vehicle.

With that being said, the Vortec 7400 was a bit of a rare gem so to speak, as the majority of vehicles were equipped with the Vortec 5700. Would have been nice to use this as an opportunity to upgrade to an 8100, but they're pretty rare as well.

 

[eljefino]

Six mixed calls huh? Panic mode!!!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Ouch, that sounds bad. What year was the car? Starting in 1998, Ford equipped the Panthers with fail-safe cooling, which does come in pretty helpful in situations like these.


His was a 1985, the mid-size version with a V-6. There was a heck of a mess. Even running the garden hose into the rad at full blast, the water was coming out of the engine as fast as it was going in. This is the fellow that I've mentioned in other threads, who I swear could overheat an air cooled snowblower on a -40 day.

 

[Chris142]

don't bother with head gaskets. the pistons are scored and the rings lost tension. a complete rebuild or used engine are your only choices. how long did ge drive it with the guage in the red and it pre detonatong like a diesel?

 

[01rangerxl]

My coworker's '98 Ram 1500 had a similar meltdown yesterday. I was behind him on the interstate, and the Ram was smoking pretty bad, some of the smoke dark and some of it light. Then a whole bunch of coolant hit my windshield and the Ram started slowing down. Luckily there was an exit ramp, but the truck stalled and would not restart when it got to the top. Once it cooled down it cranked again, but definitely blew a HG and needed a radiator. A parts store had the rad and it is already in, but the HG leak is pretty severe at this point.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
don't bother with head gaskets. the pistons are scored and the rings lost tension. a complete rebuild or used engine are your only choices.


Yep. Years ago, we had an '85 full sized Oldsmobile. In about a span of a week, my wife overheated the car about four times. Each time, a different hose blew (heater, radiator, etc.) and she drove it down the road a little warm. The car ran okay after that, but used about a quart of oil every 300 miles. I'm sure the valve seals were shot and the rings had lost all of their tension.
If a roadworthy car is needed, get a new/rebuilt long block.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
don't bother with head gaskets. the pistons are scored and the rings lost tension. a complete rebuild or used engine are your only choices. how long did ge drive it with the guage in the red and it pre detonatong like a diesel?


+1 That engine is toast

 

[Falcon_LS]

An update on what's happened. The engine is being completely rebuilt, the passenger side iron cylinder head is also cracked. Managed to score a good used one from the yards. My buddy's looking at a cost to the tune of $1,595, including stuff like a new oil pump/coolant pump.

The engine internals are absolutely filthy. When we got the truck we changed the oil to Mobil 1 0W-40, which we ran for about 5,800 miles. Then we flushed the engine with Liqui Moly Pro-Line and switched to Ace Hardware branded 15W-40 HDEO. Just purchased 7 quarts of Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 to be used once the engine's pulled back together and thereon. Haven't a clue what type of [censored] Mid Eastern oil the previous owner was using.

 

[SLCraig]

That is one massive engine.
Shame such a bad failure with so little miles on her. Could probably have easily been avoided with a little PM.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The coolant was pouring out the side of the block? Did he blow out a freeze plug or something?

 

[Chris142]

Takes a lot to crack a BB Chevy head! Tell your friend "job well done"

 

[Thermo1223]

You should kindly explain the theory to keeping an engine bay clean as well.

 

[Brons2]

I've seen worse sludge inside BBC heads. That doesn't look too horrible.

$1595 seems on the low side, what are are they doing? I would think the runout on the cylinders after a bad overheat would be too much for continued service without machine work. The block might need to be decked as well.

Maybe they can get away with a hot tank then hone cylinders, polish crank journals, new rings and bearings type rebuild. Won't last if they do it that way but oh well. Might be good for 30 or 40K.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Takes a lot to crack a BB Chevy head! Tell your friend "job well done"

I was about to agree with that looking at the pictures. A friend has a 2000 1 ton with the BB Chebby and he cracked a head in it. We all congratulated him on the accomplishment.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
That is one massive engine.
Shame such a bad failure with so little miles on her. Could probably have easily been avoided with a little PM.


True. Although with a radiator leaking from 7 different areas, the truck really shouldn't have been driven. Unfortunately, he was topping up with regular tap water, which made it difficult to identify. Had to use a dye to find where the coolant was leaking from, and it would only leak under pressure. So idling wouldn't cause it to leak. Quite an expensive repair now though.

Originally Posted By: Miller88
The coolant was pouring out the side of the block? Did he blow out a freeze plug or something?


It started pouring out the side of the block when the cylinder head bolts were loosened, and the heads were removed. Nevertheless, the freeze plugs are all being replaced thankfully. Fresh Dexcool or G-05 once a year with distilled water from now on.

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Takes a lot to crack a BB Chevy head! Tell your friend "job well done"

Definitely agree!!

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
You should kindly explain the theory to keeping an engine bay clean as well.


A clean engine bay is an oxymoron in my part of the woods. We get to see blue skies only a handful of times a year, and when you wash your car, it's dusty again in half an hour. I gave up and just wash the car, undercarriage and detail the engine bay once a week now. Used to be an everyday thing when I was younger and had the time.

Originally Posted By: Brons2
I've seen worse sludge inside BBC heads. That doesn't look too horrible.

$1595 seems on the low side, what are are they doing? I would think the runout on the cylinders after a bad overheat would be too much for continued service without machine work. The block might need to be decked as well.

Maybe they can get away with a hot tank then hone cylinders, polish crank journals, new rings and bearings type rebuild. Won't last if they do it that way but oh well. Might be good for 30 or 40K.


The reason it's so low by American standards is because labor is ridiculously cheap. The total cost to hot tank the block and heads, resurface, bore the cylinders, install new cam bearings, line bore crank journals, weight match and balance, do a valve job, etc. is approximately $280 at a very reputable machine shop.

The guy doing the rebuild has 30 years of experience with SBC and BBC units, and will also go down the route of using high end aftermarket parts like Fel-Pro, Victor Reinz, Perfect Circle, etc. which puts costs down a little further.

 

[Brons2]

Hmm. Does shipping to Kuwait exceed the labor cost savings?

That's an unbelievable deal by US standards.

 

[Thermo1223]

Quote:


Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
You should kindly explain the theory to keeping an engine bay clean as well.


A clean engine bay is an oxymoron in my part of the woods. We get to see blue skies only a handful of times a year, and when you wash your car, it's dusty again in half an hour. I gave up and just wash the car, undercarriage and detail the engine bay once a week now. Used to be an everyday thing when I was younger and had the time.


My apologies I keep forgeting you are in Kuwait, considering the part of the world it looks fairly good then.

At least you know when you have an oil leak right away! All dust sticks to that spot instantly