Supertech MP Maximum Protection 20K miles filters

[xgmad]

I followed everything until the last part...?

I meant that alot of contaminants in the oil is normally under 20 microns in good operation of the engine. It is less common in my opinion to see contaminants that are over 30 micron, meaning that the oil filter will clog less when operating at a 20,000 mile interval due to not filtering much finer particles that can lead to the eventual clogging of the oil filter because the oil filter lacks the ability to decently filter out finer particles, and allowing them to pass.

 

[JonnyAbs]

I meant that alot of contaminants in the oil is normally under 20 microns in good operation of the engine. It is less common in my opinion to see contaminants that are over 30 micron, meaning that the oil filter will clog less when operating at a 20,000 mile interval due to not filtering much finer particles that can lead to the eventual clogging of the oil filter because the oil filter lacks the ability to decently filter out finer particles, and allowing them to pass.

So the oil leaves those <30 micron particles suspended in the oil and they likely cause no harm. It's probably what slowly turns the oil black, I suppose.

 

[xgmad]

So the oil leaves those <30 micron particles suspended in the oil and they likely cause no harm. It's probably what slowly turns the oil black, I suppose.

Yeah, it is what makes the oil black is those particles and the normal operation of the oil. The particles , especially in GDI engines is soot, mixture of dirt and dust getting into the oil.

I wouldn't really run one of these engine oil filters, I would much rather use a fram ultra or a cheap wix filter and should be as good.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So the oil leaves those <30 micron particles suspended in the oil and they likely cause no harm. It's probably what slowly turns the oil black, I suppose.

Every study on patricle size vs wear says that particles less than 30μ can cause most of the wear.

 

[xgmad]

Every study on patricle size vs wear says that particles less than 30μ can cause most of the wear.

i guess 30 micron settles down

 

[ZeeOSix]

i guess 30 micron settles down

Settles down?

 

[xgmad]

Settles down?

what do you mean by 30 microns not harming that much

 

[ZeeOSix]

what do you mean by 30 microns not harming that much

They can cause harm and wear too.

My Post #24 was addressing the comment that particles less than 30μ "likely don't do harm" ... but they do, typically more than particles greater than 30μ. Lots of wear studies show that. Google "engine wear vs particle size".

 

[ZeeOSix]

https://p2infohouse.org/ref/31/30453.pdf

Also read the conclusions section.

 

[dwendt44]

The outer shell color changes with the supplier of the filters. Blue and white. One is Wix made, the other,
IIRC, was Champion.

 

[JonnyAbs]

https://p2infohouse.org/ref/31/30453.pdf

View attachment 64323

Also read the conclusions section.

View attachment 64325

So it seems that 0-10 micron particles cause the most wear. Most filters aren't catching that anyway right? Looks like synthetic media can catch some of that, but not paper, which supertechs are.

Another reason to stick with Fram ultras.

 

[NashNative]

So it seems that 0-10 micron particles cause the most wear. Most filters aren't catching that anyway right? Looks like synthetic media can catch some of that, but not paper, which supertechs are.

Another reason to stick with Fram ultras.

I wouldn't be concerned with contaminants smaller than 10 micron in the lube system. Fleetguard filters are typically rated between 10-30 microns at varying levels of efficiency. If you're talking high pressure common rail fuel systems or hydraulic systems, those will definitely need high efficiency filtration well below 10 microns.

 

[4WD]

So it seems that 0-10 micron particles cause the most wear. Most filters aren't catching that anyway right? Looks like synthetic media can catch some of that, but not paper, which supertechs are.

Another reason to stick with Fram ultras.

Once there is an abundance of particles below 20-30 microns … pull this filter …
wipe the tip for about 10 minutes … re-install … replace any oil lost while cleaning the tip …

 

[wpod]

Every study on patricle size vs wear says that particles less than 30μ can cause most of the wear.

Why do we have maintained fleet vehicles engines outlasting the drive line and chassis in passenger vehicles as that is what we drive.

 

[Davejam]

So few things...

An experimental investigation of soot particle size inside the combustion chamber of a diesel engine

The knowledge of soot particle size distribution inside the combustion chamber of diesel engines is important for both radiation heat transfer calcula…

www.sciencedirect.com

Soot particles are very small, less than 1 micron. (1000 Angstrom = 0.1micron)
Here you are relying on dispersants/additives in oil to keep them suspended and to prevent agglomeration which could increase the effective particle size.
So, I would suggest the main wear mechanism for soot is impacting oil additives and less abbrasive wear. But open to challenge on that.

A filter that is 99% @ 20 micron is going to do a way better job filtering at lower particle size.
The Fram Ultra is so good that its hard to even extrapolate how good/bad it would be at 10 micron or less. But I would guess its >75% at 10 micron...and >35% at 5 micron.
The 99% @ 30 micron filters are going to be comparitavely crap...25% at 10micron and <<5% at 5micron.
Those are some extrapolations based on real data, so not absolute, but you get the point.

Once there is an abundance of particles below 20-30 microns … pull this filter …
wipe the tip for about 10 minutes … re-install … replace any oil lost while cleaning the tip …

Iron is only one of the abbrasive metals that one has to deal with. A magnet isn't going to do much for the rest.

 

[4WD]

So few things...

An experimental investigation of soot particle size inside the combustion chamber of a diesel engine

The knowledge of soot particle size distribution inside the combustion chamber of diesel engines is important for both radiation heat transfer calcula…

www.sciencedirect.com

Soot particles are very small, less than 1 micron. (1000 Angstrom = 0.1micron)
Here you are relying on dispersants/additives in oil to keep them suspended and to prevent agglomeration which could increase the effective particle size.
So, I would suggest the main wear mechanism for soot is impacting oil additives and less abbrasive wear. But open to challenge on that.

A filter that is 99% @ 20 micron is going to do a way better job filtering at lower particle size.
The Fram Ultra is so good that its hard to even extrapolate how good/bad it would be at 10 micron or less. But I would guess its >75% at 10 micron...and >35% at 5 micron.
The 99% @ 30 micron filters are going to be comparitavely crap...25% at 10micron and <<5% at 5micron.
Those are some extrapolations based on real data, so not absolute, but you get the point.


Iron is only one of the abbrasive metals that one has to deal with. A magnet isn't going to do much for the rest.

Read it again … it means change the oil

 

[ZeeOSix]

Why do we have maintained fleet vehicles engines outlasting the drive line and chassis in passenger vehicles as that is what we drive.

Key word is probably "maintained". Pretty sure there's a strong correlation between proper maintenance and vehicle longevity. There are plenty of well maintained passenger car and truck engines (and driver trains if maintained right) that make it 300K+ miles.

An interesting real world study would be to take 4 brand new fleet vehicles all used for the same tasks in the same manner and frequency, and maintain two of them with high tier oil and filters and the other two with low tier oil and filters. Use the same exact air filters in all of them. Use 99% @20u or better oil filters in two, and use 50% @20u filters in the other two. Take compression tests, emissions tests, dyno tests, etc after they are all broken in properly to get a baseline of the health/strength of the engines. Maintain the drive lines (transmission and differential) on all of them. Repeat these engine health/strength tests every 50K miles to get a trend. Also take UOA and ISO particle count samples at each OCI. Maintain one vehicle in each group very well and maintain the other one in each group in a neglected way (mainly too long OCI/FCI, etc). See how well they all last for 250+K miles with the compression tests, emissions tests, dyno tests, etc done every 50K miles along the way. Optional - then tear them all down to do visual inspections for wear, etc. A real world test like this would take lots of effort and time, and that's why it would be hard to find a real world test program like this. The closest study I can think of is the SAE Bus Study which clearly showed that more efficient oil filters increased oil cleanliness and reduced engine wear.

Or see some worth in the studies that have been done that always conclude that cleaner oil results in less engine wear ... that might only cost an extra $20 per OCI ... or do shorter OCIs with lower tier oil and filters, which might actually cost more. Many choices.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A filter that is 99% @ 20 micron is going to do a way better job filtering at lower particle size.
The Fram Ultra is so good that its hard to even extrapolate how good/bad it would be at 10 micron or less. But I would guess its >75% at 10 micron...and >35% at 5 micron.
The 99% @ 30 micron filters are going to be comparitavely crap...25% at 10micron and <<5% at 5micron.
Those are some extrapolations based on real data, so not absolute, but you get the point.

Motorking (Jay) from Fram when he was still posting here said a few times that the Ultra was 80% @ 5 microns IIRC. Looking at Andrew's ISO 4548-12 test I could see it meeting that.

 

[Davejam]

Motorking (Jay) from Fram when he was still posting here said a few times that the Ultra was 80% @ 5 microns IIRC. Looking at Andrew's ISO 4548-12 test I could see it meeting that.

I'm not wrong...I said greater than.
80% is possible, i'd have to see that to believe it.
I have no doubt that its better than just about anything else on the shelves, so that's whats important to me.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Link below is related to the study posted in Post #29, but this one shows some other data. Table B shows typical oil film thickness of various engine components, and gasoline engines are going to have similar OFTs.

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.404.7165&rep=rep1&type=pdf