Subaru AWD vs Blizzard

They purposely market it here in CO as “snow monster “ etc. on billboard’s. Then they put crappy tires and then drivers later buy again crappy tires.
Problem is that people do not understand that tires are like Tools, you must have the right ones for the job!
 
Recently someone was complaining that their AWD crossover didn't feel safe when driving over 35mph on snow packed roads. I tried to diplomatically get the point across that maybe they shouldn't be driving over 35mph on snow packed roads. It fell on deaf ears. They still maintain that having AWD means they should be able to drive at full, posted speeds in the snow. :(
So you complain they obey speed limit?
 
... I thought, what a dummy, just because that little car is AWD doesn't mean he can go anywhere he likes. That light car, probably with AW tires is not designed for much snow.
Would you rather push a 3200 lb car or a 5700 lb car?
The Big three "road hugging weight" ad copy still lives!

Cars are all pigs now, even the little ones; the 2100 Lb ecobox is sadly LONG gone.
Snow Traction more down to tire foot print (fpa) and materials NOT vehicle weight.

My Tiny Indian Ecosport is over 3500 lbs with me in it. it is a snow bunny - even with the Factory Ecopia tires,
Not as readable as a mid 90's Impreza with a 5mt, but VERY deep snow and slush capable, indeed.

ecosport.jpg
 
A Subaru with OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92s is a disaster looking for an accident. Put dedicated snows on extra rims and it'll run with the best.

My 2004 WRX came with those. I got rid of them quickly, but my first winter driving experience was on Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S. It couldn't possibly get any worse than that on snow. Does this look like an all-season tire?

pirrh9.ang.xl.jpg


However, I didn't crash, but I did see one large 4WD SUVs that plowed into a snowbank waiting for a tow truck.

I got better all-seasons later. The Bridgestone Potenza RE960as was actually quite nice in light snow.
 
Used to see crashed Subies all the time in Vermont.

Three common factors in most loss of control crashes during snow in Vermont:
1. AWD
2. ”Flatlander” plates (not from Vermont).
3. All season tires.

Somehow people think that their magic AWD makes up for zero traction from all season tires.

Most crashes in winter conditions are the result of an inability to stop or turn. AWD doesn’t help with either.

Good tires make all the difference.

I used to drive around the wrecked, fancy, new AWD in my old, RWD Volvo that had four winter tires.

Depends on the tires. Some all-seasons are better than others. I've made do with all-seasons, but others take their winter driving seriously. Once I was in the Lake Tahoe area taking my kid sledding. Besides the fact that I saw someone being hauled off in a stretcher in a Forest Service parking lot, the BMW parked next to my WRX was a BMW xi (don't recall the exact one) with Firestone WinterForce tires. Granted, those were perhaps the cheapest, loudest winter tires available, but the owner said they work remarkably well in the snow as long as one doesn't care that they don't last long and are noisy as heck.

Had a coworker who had an Audi A4 AWD. I had my WRX. He claimed that there was no need to drive any differently because the AWD would handle snow perfectly with all-seasons. I couldn't convince him that braking and steering mattered just as much as getting moving.

I did learn a few things my first time. Like stopping in a parking lot can be an adventure. The first time that the ABS kicks in combined with just sliding another six inches before coming to a stop was a good learning experience. I took whatever learning experiences I could, such as finding an isolated patch of snow piled two feet high and seeing what it was like driving through it. The only other time I remember anything like it was when there was 6 inches of mud that got deposited on a street from a storm. Nothing quite like slogging through mud.

But I'm sure that if I put my pair of SCC Super Z6 on, I could do anything that's not 3 ft of snow and as long as I don't drive too fast.
 
A Subaru with OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92s is a disaster looking for an accident. Put dedicated snows on extra rims and it'll run with the best.
I wouldn’t put Potenza RE92s or Ecopia EP422s on even a Pinto or Cavalier. Even Costco recommends the Michelin X Tour A/S(the club box version of the Defender T+H) for Prius drivers(which is the target market for the Ecopia series).

What’s driving me crazy these days, are people who are putting Falken Wildpeak ATs/BFG KO2/Toyo Open Country on an otherwise streeted Subaru - more so the Crosstrek and Forester. The most “off-road” those might see is the Heavenly/Kirkwood parking lot or Burning Man. Although I do know someone who installed Falkens on this Outback XT - he does drive on dirt roads quite a bit. A Subaru is a Firestone WeatherGrip/General Altimax AW365/Michelin CrossClimate 2/Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady candidate IMO.
 
My 2004 WRX came with those. I got rid of them quickly, but my first winter driving experience was on Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S. It couldn't possibly get any worse than that on snow. Does this look like an all-season tire?

pirrh9.ang.xl.jpg


However, I didn't crash, but I did see one large 4WD SUVs that plowed into a snowbank waiting for a tow truck.

I got better all-seasons later. The Bridgestone Potenza RE960as was actually quite nice in light snow.
I see mostly Pirelli Scorpion P Zero shod Range Rovers in the ditch on a powder day. Mostly Marinites or SF dwellers from the Marina/Cow Hollow, or East Bay - seeing the British Motor Cars/Land Rover Marin/Cole European dealer plate frames on them. But also, the amount of newish Tacomas I see in the ditch on a pow day as well.
 
I see mostly Pirelli Scorpion P Zero shod Range Rovers in the ditch on a powder day. Mostly Marinites or SF dwellers from the Marina/Cow Hollow, or East Bay - seeing the British Motor Cars/Land Rover Marin/Cole European dealer plate frames on them. But also, the amount of newish Tacomas I see in the ditch on a pow day as well.

Of course getting moving is not the same as getting moving in the right direction. I guess traction control and fancy all-seasons are one thing, but winter tires and/or chains aren't very popular.
 
When we had that freak snowstorm last year, I grabbed a Subaru Forester off of the car lot and used it. It was 2' plus by the time it was all said and done, which for here is a lot. That little car handled the snow like a champ! I will say that it had some decent tires on it, which makes a world of difference.
My road was not cleared and then it stayed packed solid for a week after the system moved on. I never had a problem getting in and out, but there again, I was driving with some common sense.
It was a little more "fun" after it was packed and rutted up. Those ruts had a few people off in the ditch because they were driving way too fast and the ruts sent them off in a certain direction from which they couldn't recover.
I hate cold weather and now it seems that we may be getting a little snow and ice here mid-week. I don't see how you guys that live with this garbage throughout the winter deal with it. :rolleyes:

Counties here have the best snow removal equipment and teams tax monies can buy..it's a prioritized service.
My Lexus wouldn't make it through 2' of snow, to say your Subie did like a champ is laughable.
 
Since 1995 Tire Rack introduced Bridgestone Blizzak tried on our 95 accord 4 cyl like night and day.Since then any car that I owned had them.The car's had them on dec-march. one set last 10 winter's. Right now: 06 corolla,06 accord,14 camry and 19 civic.Come march will be busy taking them off.Just sharing..
 
I have to thank all of you guys here for the good chuckle at your various positions on this never ending topic.
Here in the North of Denver suburbs, we had over 8" of snow over the past two days, and I had completely forgotten to go out for a spin in the Alfa.

So, I just did.
Completely effortless strolling around the neighborhood in my AWD 280 hp turbocharged car.
I had even forgotten to put it into Advanced mode, so I was just rolling around in default Natural mode, instead.
It could have been even more effortless.

I think the most challenging part of the drive was climbing the sloped driveway, back into the garage.
That was after going through the foot and a half deep snowdrift behind the bank.

The Blizzak WS90's make the snow battle a non factor.

Gotta get up early tomorrow morning to take the two dogs to the vet, so that's the car we have to use, so its nice knowing that I don't have to feel stressed out about a 5 mile trip, in snowy conditions.

And I didn't need a Subaru to make the trip, either.

BC.
 
Counties here have the best snow removal equipment and teams tax monies can buy..it's a prioritized service.
My Lexus wouldn't make it through 2' of snow, to say your Subie did like a champ is laughable.

Depends on the area. The Lake Tahoe area is rather interesting because it's a combination of different agencies (mostly Caltrans with the highway plowing) and there are a ton of people coming in for winter recreation. The main business district through South Lake Tahoe is also part of US-50, so the state takes car of that until it crosses into Nevada.


We freak out because there are tons of people who barely or have never driven in the snow before. Also - it's tough to justify winter tires and extra wheels just for one or two trips per winter. We have chain restrictions, and chains really do work better than anything else, but having an AWD vehicle and adequate tread on all-season is enough that they won't make them go on, although you're supposed to be carrying them just in case. And there lies the rub - that AWD may be better at getting a vehicle moving, but not necessarily better at steering and stopping.

I'm not sure how they determine which plows need to be chained, but many seem to have these heavy duty chains and they are loud as heck.

They've got mass snow removal using these rather dangerous looking rotary snowplows.

SS_SS200810636374071AR.jpg


Or more conventional versions.

Caltrans-District-9.jpg
 
my wife's outback on blizzaks is better in the snow than my 2500HD on all terrains.

maybe in 6" of snow but certainly not going thru 24"...around here, the vehicle under carriage runs up on the snow and all traction ends.. hopefully you packed a shovel but in that depth even a shovel probably not reasonably going to get you much further.
 
Then there's dry powder Denver type sissy snow or wet heavy slop like the great lakes get.
 
maybe in 6" of snow but certainly not going thru 24"...around here, the vehicle under carriage runs up on the snow and all traction ends.. hopefully you packed a shovel but in that depth even a shovel probably not reasonably going to get you much further.
That is why Audi Q7 exists.
Accidents don’t happen in 24” of snow. They happen in half an inch of snow that covered ice. And trucks suck in that.
 
Counties here have the best snow removal equipment and teams tax monies can buy..it's a prioritized service.
My Lexus wouldn't make it through 2' of snow, to say your Subie did like a champ is laughable.
I have no reason to lie about what happened, I sure didn't dream about it. The type of snow makes a big difference as well, this stuff was powdery until it became the packed, rutted-up snow-covered road that I mentioned. It became more treacherous at this point.
With that said, maybe your Lexus sucks, go get a Subaru and laugh the whole time while you're driving on the plowed roads that your Lexus struggled with. :LOL: Cheers. 🍻
 
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So you complain they obey speed limit?

You miss the point. They are trying to drive too fast for conditions. The speed limit on roads is based on ideal driving conditions. When the roads are snow packed, it doesn't matter what the posted speed limit is. You don't drive 55mph on snow packed roads with a posted speed of 55mph.

People assume because they have AWD they can drive like "normal" regardless of the weather. Then they complain when they try to do just that and the vehicle loses traction.
 
I have no reason to lie about what happened, I sure didn't dream about it. The type of snow makes a big difference as well, this stuff was powdery until it became the packed, rutted-up snow-covered road that I mentioned. It became more treacherous at this point.
With that said, maybe your Lexus sucks, go get a Subaru and laugh the whole time while you're driving on the plowed roads that your Lexus struggled with. :LOL: Cheers. 🍻
I think he's questioning the legitimacy of the 24" of snow number, not the claim in general. The Forester has less than 9" of ground clearance, 24" would have put the snow basically at the level of the headlights and is almost the total height of the tires (27"). You'd have been plowing big time.

I've had guys tell me they took a Coyote at 500 yards. Then, they are out at the range and are like "whoa, that far target is way out there, you guys are hitting that? how far is it!?" and then you tell them that's only 220 yards and they are suddenly quite quiet. They weren't trying to lie, they just really don't know the distances, so they guess. Wrongly.
 
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