Student loans to hit 1 trillion this year.

[Drew99GT]

Ahh, the college graduate will always earn vastly more than a high school grad myth...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703822404575019082819966538.html

By the way, my position is that those who really want it, who can actually pay for it themselves (without the need for tax money backstopping it), and who are worth their salt academically, SHOULD pursue higher education, and most people of that caliber will pursue a real, economically beneficial line of study such as engineering.

Unfortunately, higher education at your average institution for cookie cutter degrees like business administration, has become so dumbed down, so laden with easy grading systems (the CURVE), open book, take home tests etc, that it's worthless!

 

[Mr Nice]

Drew,

So are you telling your kids not to go to college and go into a blue collar trade ?

 

[Stu_Rock]

In an ideal world, it would be OK for people not to feel forced into college if job availability were just as good without the degree. Unfortunately, that is not the case--look at how the current unemployment situation is really clobbering people without AA degrees or higher.

 

[Drew99GT]

I'm not married and I don't have kids. If I did though, I'd tell them to pursue what they want to pursue, and that they can pay for it with my help. I wouldn't force them into anything, especially college if they didn't want to go and I thought they weren't cut out for it. If they had great grades and had a passion for a career that needed a good college degree, I'd absolutely support them in that endevour.

 

[Smokescreen]

I would leave it up to my kids to choose and present them with correct unbiased information.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
In an ideal world, it would be OK for people not to feel forced into college if job availability were just as good without the degree. Unfortunately, that is not the case--look at how the current unemployment situation is really clobbering people without AA degrees or higher.


Yup, because formerly good jobs like construction or culinary arts are all done by low paid immigrants.

Our system surely is by design.

 

[mechanicx]

I'm saying the student loans should be dischargable like most any other loan so that bad loans will be less likely issued helping create the secondary education bubble. Without all this free flowing loan money and tax payer money the bubble wouldn't be created and students would have to pay for their education with what they have. Then tuition cost would come down to reasonable levels.

 

[Tempest]

I don't think the government is going to allow student loans to be discharged when they are on the hook for the loans.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
I don't think the government is going to allow student loans to be discharged when they are on the hook for the loans.


That's my point, they should not be guaranteed in the first place.

 

[Stu_Rock]

That's an interesting perspective, mechanicx. I wonder if there would be a meaningful effect on tuition.

I do agree that student loans should be dischargable. I understand the desire to stand on principle and try to hold everybody to their contracts. Sometimes, though, the best thing for the society or economy is just to let it go.

But a mass forgiveness of student debt really does feel like an overstep. I am close to finishing an advanced degree and I never took any loans to get through school. Debt forgiveness would be income that my debt-carrying peers would receive that I wouldn't. Some may very well deserve it, but some certainly don't.

Discharge in bankruptcy is better--there would be "due process" in which the debtor would demonstrate that he really has a good reason for discharging the debt.

 

[Drew99GT]

If student loans were dischargable, we'd be looking at another trillion dollar bailout. That ain't gonna happen!

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock

Discharge in bankruptcy is better--there would be "due process" in which the debtor would demonstrate that he really has a good reason for discharging the debt.


That's what I mean. Only through bankruptcy court should they be discharged just like every other debt. I believe this will cut down on the loans available and this will force tuition to meet a truer market demand. I believe not discharging these loans was intended as a cash cow for banks and colleges at the expense of tax payers and students.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Drew, that's off by several orders of magnitude. Only a very small percentage of holders of student debt would enter bankruptcy proceedings to discharge it.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
If student loans were dischargable, we'd be looking at another trillion dollar bailout. That ain't gonna happen!


No bailout just let the banks who wrote bad students loans fail hehe. Seriously though it would probably have to be phased into the future and not retroactive. At one time student loans were dischargable and tuition wasn't as expensive. I don't see why it couldn't be changed back to the way it was. It could be done, not everyone is going to file bankruptcy.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
In an ideal world, it would be OK for people not to feel forced into college if job availability were just as good without the degree. Unfortunately, that is not the case--look at how the current unemployment situation is really clobbering people without AA degrees or higher.


Yup, because formerly good jobs like construction or culinary arts are all done by low paid immigrants.

Our system surely is by design.

This is something that people don't seem to understand.
The system is designed to systematically destroy the middle class. The illusion is created that everybody needs a collage degree to be successful, while trades and other hands on professions are being outsourced. The young people are led to believe that no American is willing to do those dirty jobs, and are promised huge salaries for some worthless degrees. These students then go on and take on huge dept that will burden them for the rest of their lives. Like the saying goes "give somebody enough rope...". Our youth is being given a lot of rope, this behavior will only be encouraged.


I'm not saying higher education should not be pursued, but our education system is being constantly tailored to the lowest common denominator to push more and more students through, making a lot of those degrees look like high school diplomas when compared to universities around the world.

 

[Hollow]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
What happens to those of us who accrue great debt to go into a low paying environment? I'll be lucky to ever pay off the student debt that seminary is running me, considering the pay I will be getting as a pastor or chaplain.

Entirely my fault?

Of course its your fault, who else's? It sure isn't mine or joe taxpayers fault people choose a low paying profession and then decide to borrow the money.

IMO if someone wants a paid education then give the taxpayers something in return for it. Military service is a fine option and they always need pastors.

I see these protesters want their loans forgiven, no way i would do that i would hound like they were on the 10 most wanted list and hunt them till they die or pay up.

I object to the notion that I "chose" my career path...but I cannot defend that further without violating the terms of this forum.

But your basic point is that if someone is "dumb enough" to go into a low paying field, it is just too bad for them and their options are military service or financial ruin?

I would argue that the point has become that education is no longer affordable without significant debt. Some professions pay enough that it is a minimal concern, others do not. The problem is the costs, which cannot be removed from the ability to pay.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
What happens to those of us who accrue great debt to go into a low paying environment? I'll be lucky to ever pay off the student debt that seminary is running me, considering the pay I will be getting as a pastor or chaplain.

Entirely my fault?

Of course its your fault, who else's? It sure isn't mine or joe taxpayers fault people choose a low paying profession and then decide to borrow the money.

IMO if someone wants a paid education then give the taxpayers something in return for it. Military service is a fine option and they always need pastors.


Agreed. It was a conscious decision.

 

[Hollow]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
What happens to those of us who accrue great debt to go into a low paying environment? I'll be lucky to ever pay off the student debt that seminary is running me, considering the pay I will be getting as a pastor or chaplain.

Entirely my fault?

Of course its your fault, who else's? It sure isn't mine or joe taxpayers fault people choose a low paying profession and then decide to borrow the money.

IMO if someone wants a paid education then give the taxpayers something in return for it. Military service is a fine option and they always need pastors.


Agreed. It was a conscious decision.


I cannot argue this without violating terms of service. But for me, it was not a decision, nor was the military an option.

The issue, again, is the cost.

 

[mechanicx]

But it is also a conscious decision to take out any loan, business loan, car loan, home loan. The difference here is the lender has a guarantee and therefore a cash cow for banks and colleges. If student loans are not dischargable then why should any loans be or should there be bankruptcy. I'm not getting the reasoning

.

Also, the Occupational Outlook book and College admissions office tend to mislead students of the potentional future fortunes in the career paths. I'm sticking with my conclusion that it is just a cash cow for banks and colleges at the expensive and risk of students and tax payers. No matter what field you study even engineering or computers might not lead to gainful employment.

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
But it is also a conscious decision to take out any loan, business loan, car loan, home loan. The difference here is the lender has a guarantee and therefore a cash cow for banks and colleges. If student loans are not dischargable then why should any loans be or should there be bankruptcy. I'm not getting the reasoning

.

Also, the Occupational Outlook book and College admissions office tend to mislead students of the potentional future fortunes in the career paths. I'm sticking with my conclusion that it is just a cash cow for banks and colleges at the expensive and risk of students and tax payers. No matter what field you study even engineering or computers might not lead to gainful employment.


+1