I understood what you meant. I agree.
So what is the deal with HPL Oil?
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Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
I agree as well.
Do you remember the constant attack here on boutique oils being rubbish because of the lack of funds and resources available to them to actually produce a quality oil. That was the BITOG
gospel not so long ago.
People change their tune very quickly. I think this time around it’s due to how open HPL is. They’re a no nonsense type company. Gives people more confidence using their products.
It's not one or the other for me. Both approved and boutique have great options. It just depends on what you're after.
HPL is a nice change to the norm due to their quality and transparency. Haven't seen an oil clean and hold its TBN as well as HPL. Truly top-notch quality.
I have no issues using approved oils or boutique from the reputable ones. I will likely run HPL No VII in the truck and Subaru next. I like supporting the smaller guys as well and HPL is fantastic.
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I want the oil that Mobil 1 is making for the Red Bull F1 team.
Probably take an act of God to get that.
It's probably something crazy like $200/QT
I do not recall that at all. At least not from someone who knew what they were talking about.
Unnecessary? Sure. Overpriced? Sure. But rubbish?? As in inferior?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
To be fair, some of them are in fact rubbish if we are casting the net wide enough. But AMSOIL, Redline, Driven...etc, nobody of repute has said these products are rubbish. Could they be construed as a poor value? Sure, but the same argument could be made for an oil like M1 EP if it's not being adequately utilized.
In other instances, you are paying a premium for a commodity approved additive package in a bottle that says "Redline" on it or similar, which is just re-bottled Kendall/P66. So, not rubbish, just horrifically bad value.
So, it really just comes down to: do you know what you are getting? With @High Performance Lubricants we know what we are getting because Dave has been insanely forthcoming with sharing that information. AMSOIL didn't come out and start telling us when they started using Group III or GTL, but Dave has always been totally upfront about what base oils they use, and yeah, that piqued an interest from folks like myself who have typically been on the "use a premium approved product like Mobil 1". When Dave actually RECOMMENDED M1 0W-40, and talked about how good it was? When have we ever seen a person from an oil company talking up somebody else's product?
Furthermore, Dr. Rudnick is a world-renowned formulator with numerous patents and publications to his name, which appears on plenty of material from the likes of ExxonMobil, so it's not like you've got Miro shopping the clearance isle at Walmart and the drain tank at Jiffy Lube for components and then brewing up some unknown bucket of "magic" in an unmarked warehouse in some sketchy abandoned industrial district.
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^Well said. That's what it boils down to.
For me personally, if it wasn't for HPL being so open, I'm not sure what I would truly think of them. Amsoil and Redline have a long history behind them with a solid reputation, so I'm more trusting of their products. But as Overkill stated, you cast that net wide enough you're going to find some not so great "expensive boutique" oils on the market that likely won't even match the top tier off-the-shelf products. I could name 5 boutique oils off the top of my head that would never go in my engine. Remember, if you take on the risk of using a non-approved lube in your expensive car, you better have full trust in the company bottling it.
For me personally, if it wasn't for HPL being so open, I'm not sure what I would truly think of them. Amsoil and Redline have a long history behind them with a solid reputation, so I'm more trusting of their products. But as Overkill stated, you cast that net wide enough you're going to find some not so great "expensive boutique" oils on the market that likely won't even match the top tier off-the-shelf products. I could name 5 boutique oils off the top of my head that would never go in my engine. Remember, if you take on the risk of using a non-approved lube in your expensive car, you better have full trust in the company bottling it.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
I have no issue with anything you have said and you have explained it prior in great detail.
I simply noted typical BITOG behavior over the years. I've seen it and so have many others. You are not a fact twister and that I can respect.
I would have a conversation with you but I respect that you do not do DMs.
What is "rubbish" is subjective. For some...
People: "Amsoil, Driven, and HPL aren't good enough for me because they don't carry API certs."
- Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W-30 tests as a 20 grade with phosphorus content 100 ppm below API requirements.-
Those same people: "This is fine!"
People: "Amsoil, Driven, and HPL aren't good enough for me because they don't carry API certs."
- Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W-30 tests as a 20 grade with phosphorus content 100 ppm below API requirements.-
Those same people: "This is fine!"
very interesting article
I ran all SN/SN+/SP/ GF5/GF6 rated oils to 58K.
HPL cleaner run 1/5 for 2K on a fresh OCI pulled this from somewhere???
I did this to prove to myself there was " nothing here to see". There was.
I cut filters 100% of the time, never seen anything like this from this rig.
HPL cleaner run 1/5 for 2K on a fresh OCI pulled this from somewhere???
I did this to prove to myself there was " nothing here to see". There was.
I cut filters 100% of the time, never seen anything like this from this rig.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
For as long as I have known you here I can't ever imagine you using a boutique oil without approvals.
You threw me for a loop when you were using BMW Longlife 04 in your VW. That said I would use it but I never thought you would. I can see why, so no argument. It seems you liked the product and price and it was an acceptable compromise.
I appreciated the heads up recommendation as well.
504 and 508 are expensive and limited so I get it.
In addition to this, I would add that @High Performance Lubricants has also been very open, when asking about certain “storied” base oils and/or additives, on sharing info about the downsides of a given component that a competitor may use, and why HPL chose what they use.
Yes, HPL very high on the cleaning side. Yes, HPL is very high on TBN. Yes, HPL is very high on the additive levels. No, HPL is not the absolute 100% best on every lab test or metric, but HPL is 100% transparent on why they may be “slightly” less impressive in a single given test, because they’ve still delivered a better overall product.
Case in point the Amsoil 75w90 4-ball wear tests vs HPL Differential Life- light load wear is almost cut in half by picking Amsoil, but that would also get you a much worse PDSC result (faster oxidation) and a lower 4-ball weld point… which means the Amsoil “may” return better results in my lightly-loaded Subie diffs but yet turn in a much worse result if used in my F-150 pulling 10k trailers through the mountains. We simply have a much more honest way to evaluate (gear) oils and their proper application thanks to Mr. David Ward and his fabulous team.
It does not void the warranty unless it is the cause of engine damage. Warranty is tied to damage. This misconception is repeated often on here.
Didn’t your chart show Amsoil and HPL both having 500kg Four Ball Weld results?In addition to this, I would add that @High Performance Lubricants has also been very open, when asking about certain “storied” base oils and/or additives, on sharing info about the downsides of a given component that a competitor may use, and why HPL chose what they use.
Yes, HPL very high on the cleaning side. Yes, HPL is very high on TBN. Yes, HPL is very high on the additive levels. No, HPL is not the absolute 100% best on every lab test or metric, but HPL is 100% transparent on why they may be “slightly” less impressive in a single given test, because they’ve still delivered a better overall product.
Case in point the Amsoil 75w90 4-ball wear tests vs HPL Differential Life- light load wear is almost cut in half by picking Amsoil, but that would also get you a much worse PDSC result (faster oxidation) and a lower 4-ball weld point… which means the Amsoil “may” return better results in my lightly-loaded Subie diffs but yet turn in a much worse result if used in my F-150 pulling 10k trailers through the mountains. We simply have a much more honest way to evaluate (gear) oils and their proper application thanks to Mr. David Ward and his fabulous team.
You got to the dealership, ask them does using unlicensed oil void the warranty.
Tell me the answer. It absolutely does void the warranty.
No owner’s manual nor warranty book says that grade nor license voids the warranty. We had a long thread on this a while back and no one posted language that shows it does. Using an oil that damages the engine will void the warranty however.
People keep saying it does but it doesn’t make it true. Using unlicensed Amsoil or HPL oils does not void the warranty unless the product damages the engine.
Tell me the answer. Post language from an owner’s manual that says grade or license is a warranty requirement. It’s not there.
The service deparatment at the dealership is barrier number one to warranty claims and if they deny it based on their interpreation of the oil requirements w/r to the OEM's warranty, then you have to try to circumvent at the dealer level to get to the manufacturer. They may also say no. Then you have a choice to make, eat it/accept the decision or take it to court to battle it out and prove the oil you used that wasn't recommended/had XYZ specs was not the cause of the issue. That isn't free. The one option that always works/removes this potential warranty drama is following the manufacturer's recommendations - I get why folks have concerns and want to maintain an easy warranty claim process on a new vehicle, however minimal the chances are of having one that would require oil change records in the first place or even with those records having someone really dive into the oil you used/what specs it has/etc.
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