So this trucking company goes out of business.....

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I have a few friends as well as ourselves that live below our means. No slums invovled,


I do too. Quite a few. The point I wanted to make is that even those living below their means have some minimum standard that they consider acceptable. They may reconfigure their personal lifestyle, but they aren't going to move willingly into a DMZ or live combat zone JUST to assure that they're living below their means. ANNNK! WRONG ANSWER! on that being some immutable life tenet that will always carry you to the promised land with comfort and joy and giving you bragging rights on "making it". To depict it as that simple actually devalues the advice. Exceptional status from common reasoning? Plug in the most worthless drone and have them follow those simple orders and they'll magically be elevated to the position of giving rhetorical advice since they too would "make it"? Not likely.


Now let's index that same "minimum viable standard" to someone who is of less means, but has all the same "good people" characteristics that others share in some consensus of what constitutes a "good life".

So, as I said, it's all in figuring where to stop.

 

[AcuraTech]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

..and anyone getting a regular paycheck is merely 3 to 7 days from an empty checking account and no more than 90days away from bankruptcy ..maybe 120 if you can play hopscotch with the credit cards.


Not everyone who gets a regular paycheck is close to bankruptcy in no matter xx number of days.

Now having the devil raise taxes to a point where they take over your house (you NEVER truly OWN it) because you can not afford them... Maybe.

But myself, NEVER close to bankruptcy. It's called planning. And not spending (wasting) money you don't have.

It starts with the term "it's only $xx more". Those $$ add up over the years.

Back to the OS... The trucking industry will be REALLY failing in the next few years with more rules and regs coming down the line. Trucking companies will not be able to meet the specs that are coming. Along with the work rules.

Tip of the iceberg folks...

Bill

PS: You can add the Airlines also in the we have seen nothing yet group....


Oh yeah. Finally someone who thinks like myself. Trucking companies and major airlines operate on razor thin margins as is. Throw a few wrenches in the spokes, so to speak, and it's game over.

There will be quite a few trucking company and major airlines becoming insolvent in 2010. Mark my words. This recession is far from over, don't believe the media hype.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
How much do you have in savings and how long do you have after your job is done before you're out of cash? Any mortgage? Family? If we plugged you into that scenario, just how desperate might you be given your current status ..and how much reserve do you think you would have?

Would you live in a slum if you could afford to live somewhere better? That would assure a good earning to debt ratio? Drive a beater and replace as needed ..and have your wife and kids do the same ..since it assured that you were living within your means while keeping a good safety buffer in terms of economics?

Know too many who do? Me neither. People live to the level of access they have with the income available. If you're real lucky, you know when to stop.


I know that you were talking to Drew, but I'll answer anyway.
I have ~ 1 year of savings. I have a family.
We did live in a slum for 10 years so we could afford our house. I never drove a new car until my savings were taken care of. Savings is of course not based upon valuation upon future house.
"Know too many who do?" That IS the problem & it's not my responsibility to carry all of them due to their unsatiable appetite for shiny trinkets. It's hard for me to feel sorry for folks who lived it up in good times while I tried to remain even keel b/c this too shall pass.

 

[refaller]

I have trouble having sympathy sometimes as well. I work multiple jobs so my wife can stay at home. I save, drive my old car, do all work on my property that I legally can just so we can save and live in our house. I have family members who quadrople what I make and have trouble paying bills. I just wonder where their money goes because I think we live pretty well on $40,000/yr.- and I am saving for retirement!

All that said, I think some people naturally think how things will affect the future and some are present minded. I don't buy soda's in anything but cases to save money. My wife used to pick one up everytime she stopped for anything. I can't help my OCD future thinking, she struggles to fight her "It's only a couple bucks" now thinking. I suppose that innate part of me makes life a little more stable.

ref

 

[Gary Allan]

You've done well and sacrificed as you needed. You, in some views, even of those who hold your ideals, sacrificed too much by living in a slum for 10 years if you didn't have to.

Again, who is correct in where they think too low is ..and where high enough is?

The bottom line is you did what you did and you're where you are at.

There was a functional illiterate at my old job. Could barely read or write. He had about a million in the bank after about 30 years at the plant. Everyone envied his accumulated wealth for a common semi-skilled laborer ..until I asked them if they were willing to do what he did to get it. Live like a modern day recluse hillbilly ..and all the added work and (would be) conveniences and comforts denied ..and most said "no". The grass wasn't quite green enough when you have to do the work.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
But myself, NEVER close to bankruptcy. It's called planning. And not spending (wasting) money you don't have.


Probably only for the last half of your life. Unless you were given your home, someone owned it. During your family raising years, maybe? Again, like your driving profile, this would be exceptional to the point of Big Foot or a unicorn. Even my all time tightwad friend who had his property given to him by his father ..and he was tighter than a frog's behind (water tight) ..he held his $175k mortgage (on a $300k house 1990 $$ and high(er) here) for 5 years. He built the thing almost all by himself. His wife didn't work and if he was taken out (same as losing a job) there would never be time to liquidate his assets without running out of cash.

Don't pretend that everyone can live like you did. You're in some unique situation that made that attitude and disposition viable. It's not like everyone had that opportunity to make it pay like you did.

Let's take it to a more rational point. You work hard ..feed your 401k ..pay your bills ..your company goes south and all of your savings is in your house, and then the housing market tanks. How long to liquidate your 401k under hardship and take the penalty. I never managed more than a $3000-$3500 running balance in my checking account. Half of that was already gone on paper and the installments were about $1000/wk. You may be able to float the numbers for inflation and cost of living, but until you're making more on your investments than you are in taxable earned income, you're still in the same state of vulnerability for falling from grace.


So what are you trying to say Gary?

I don't drive like I say and I guess I'm in bankruptcy as we speak then....

Unlike a lot of Americans I do have to work for a living, don't expect a SINGLE thing that I did not EARN and for my WHOLE LIFE (I've been working since 12, worked full time since 16 and only took 8 months off between careers back in the late 80s)

Nothing has been given to me from my family. I don't WASTE money on things that does not matter (in my book) and do have a few nice things. But if I lost my job today (or my wife) we would not be anywhere close to loosing our home or going bankrupt.

$1000 a week? Who in the [censored] spends that much in normal life? I can AND DO survive on MUCH less than that.

People who save for their homes have mortages WELL below $1000 a month. People who PLAN for their family don't get into debt so far that they WASTE their $$$ on paying to keep up with the neighborhood.

It would be easier if you just called me a liar then typing your little Unicorn or Big foot [censored].

I'll stop now since I'm pretty ticked off with your post.

 

[mormit]

Interesting this whole thread went into the personal responsibility of the drivers who were left on their own accross the country without a job to see their own way home.

I'd like to consider the poor planning of the company. They screwed their employees. They also left company assets scattered along with the property of their customers.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
So what are you trying to say Gary?

I don't drive like I say and I guess I'm in bankruptcy as we speak then.... smirk



Not at all. I say that you're 100% blind to your unique status that allows you to give this rhetorical advice. You've lived it all your life (probably) and don't see it as unique. You've worn the same pair of jeans.

Just like the functional illiterate that everyone envied with the $1M in the bank. He could give advice and people could be envious of his position.

You are in some exceptional circumstance. It may be of your true design or you may have just found yourself in it and did what comes natural.

Just like your driving profile, which is so exceptional that it challenges taxis for mileage accumulated ..and you're not a taxi driver (you're doing something worth something to someone) ..so, I imagine, is your living situation and lifestyle.

I'm not saying you don't earn it. I'm not saying you don't deserve it. I'm not saying that you have not managed it well.

I'm saying that obviously there is some unique aspect to whatever you do that affords you what you have. This alters your index of a "valid person" ..just like when I made BIG MONEY ..there were always people doing what I was doing while spending it. I was unwise, but didn't know any better until I didn't make BIG MONEY.

..and NO, I don't blame anyone for MY foolish and naive world view at that point in my life. Not at all. I'm the one that blew the brass ring. If I had made it, I would probably be giving rhetorical statements on why I was successful and others were not ........all the while being ignorant of my unique circumstances that were essential to allowing that to happen.

That's it.

What do you do that sets you apart? ..besides being a tightwad? (nothing wrong with being a tightwad)

What unique property/living situation/location has brought you added value over the smuck next door? Is there a next door? Are you living in some place so remote that there is no property taxation and you don't care since you're driving all those miles anyway?

Can everyone do what you do and live like you do IF they want to and end up JUST LIKE YOU?

Probably not. So assess the uniqueness of your situation. There's nothing wrong with success and wealth. I hope everyone reaches their goals and dreams. Really, but to heckle from the comfort of unique situations really cheapens your achievements. I really doubt there's anything "common" about you.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
income but could still pay the essentials on that almost indefinitely.
Like you say though, not everyone can do this, we all got into university and up here a student can get a 4 year degree and with a decent summer job not have too much student debt when they graduate, $20-30k which you should kill off in two years or less if you keep living like a student... 2 more years of student living then a couple can have 20% of their first house paid for in many cities.
I'll agree though that there's lots of pressure to get loaded up in debt buying the new car every couple years and the biggest house you can get bank approval for.


I think gary's point is, even if you live below your means, can afford everything with just one income or less, the point is you scrimp, save, put 30% down on the home... You can still be in a bad spot.

Say you're mid 30's living below your means, just had a second kid. Need to save15% in the 401k, save 6-mo expenses, etc, and you loose your job... All that saving into tough to liquidate investments, plus house, etc doesn't leave much at the end of the day. Say you don't have 6 mo expenses... Unemloyment will get you some way along, but if good jobs are tough to get, you're either on the verge of bankrupcy, or truly enslaved to some sub-par job.

I've never done it, get paid better than most, and do save a lot, but can certainly see how it is possible to be 90-120 days from bankrupt.

As for "living like a student", have you seen how students live? iPhones, flat screen tbs, cable and laptops are the norm, as is abercrombie, coach, etc. Chastity is not a virtue, so everybody has to dress and look right so they can get it on, and these behaviors are subsidized.

When parents were making funny money on homes and loans, they just bought and bought. Kids these days mostly think maths and science is uncool, so they only get marginal treatment, thus they cannot actually grasp how/why he gravy stops, and then just complain their way into getting more entitled junk.

People are mostly severe, self destructive idiots, unfortunately, and often even with a silver or at least pewter spoon that could set them up - will screw up. It is society along with poor training that causes the vicious cycle that makes existence harder for most than you claim as doable... Not that I don't agree.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
How much do you have in savings and how long do you have after your job is done before you're out of cash? Any mortgage? Family? If we plugged you into that scenario, just how desperate might you be given your current status ..and how much reserve do you think you would have?


Gary, I do have a mortgage. I bought a foreclosed "flipper" house a few years back. CHEAP, because that's what I knew I could afford. It's not a dump and it's in a nice neighborhood. I drive a 1994 Corolla. I could pay cash for a new car, but I refuse to. I have one TV, about a 1998 vintage. All of my furniture is hand me down stuff, but I like it. Got a great leather couch at the Arc. I save roughly half of what I make. Yes, I am loosing my job in the near future and I'm planning on taking the better part of 2010 off, and I can do it, pay my mortgage, and still have a lot of savings. Why? Because I live within my means and save.

I don't have a family and am not planning on having one in the near future. If I was planning on having a child, my priorities would be completely different.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: refaller


All that said, I think some people naturally think how things will affect the future and some are present minded. I don't buy soda's in anything but cases to save money. My wife used to pick one up everytime she stopped for anything. I can't help my OCD future thinking, she struggles to fight her "It's only a couple bucks" now thinking. I suppose that innate part of me makes life a little more stable.

ref


That is it right there! The "it's only a couple of bucks" mentality. When you only spend a couple of bucks here and there, it ends up being a couple hundred bucks a week!

I know people who literally spend $200/week on gourmet coffee, tea, and soda pop.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


You are in some exceptional circumstance. It may be of your true design or you may have just found yourself in it and did what comes natural.

Just like your driving profile, which is so exceptional that it challenges taxis for mileage accumulated ..and you're not a taxi driver (you're doing something worth something to someone) ..so, I imagine, is your living situation and lifestyle.

I'm not saying you don't earn it. I'm not saying you don't deserve it. I'm not saying that you have not managed it well.

I'm saying that obviously there is some unique aspect to whatever you do that affords you what you have.


You know what, I agree with you Gary. In today's culture, IT IS exceptional that people save and live below their means. It is exceptional that some people do not buy into consumerism hook line and sinker and feel the need to out do their neighbors with the latest consumer gadgets. Most of those people end up with savings and generally have a higher standard of living IMO, because instead of buying the latest big screen plasma HD Sony useless piece of you know what with surround sound, on credit, they save that money and pursue activities that truly make them happy!

There you have it!

 

[Steve S]

It sucks to loose a job . I am sure we have all lost jobs . But over all this country has had a great economy overall for the last 20 years so didn't anybody put some money in the bank. I see so many spending the whole paycheck and then some. I have missed more investment oppurtunities tham I care to admit. So no whining. I would if I were a truck driver have a truck and trailor till I got what was commong to me.

 

[brianl703]

You know what. I've seen the light. Obviously, my mistake, when I got another job making more money several years ago, was that I didn't immediately buy a bigger house in a nicer neighborhood more befitting of my increased pay.

Instead, I stayed in the same house..and actually refinanced it from a 30 year to a 15 year loan.

The worst part is, I'll own this house outright in about another 7 years.

Man, who wants to own a house outright in this neighborhood?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


You are in some exceptional circumstance. It may be of your true design or you may have just found yourself in it and did what comes natural.

Just like your driving profile, which is so exceptional that it challenges taxis for mileage accumulated ..and you're not a taxi driver (you're doing something worth something to someone) ..so, I imagine, is your living situation and lifestyle.

I'm not saying you don't earn it. I'm not saying you don't deserve it. I'm not saying that you have not managed it well.

I'm saying that obviously there is some unique aspect to whatever you do that affords you what you have.


You know what, I agree with you Gary. In today's culture, IT IS exceptional that people save and live below their means. It is exceptional that some people do not buy into consumerism hook line and sinker and feel the need to out do their neighbors with the latest consumer gadgets. Most of those people end up with savings and generally have a higher standard of living IMO, because instead of buying the latest big screen plasma HD Sony useless piece of you know what with surround sound, on credit, they save that money and pursue activities that truly make them happy!

There you have it!

Man

I really have got to work on my communication skills ... people read me so wrong.

First of all, I didn't hear you giving rhetorical advice, Drew. Most who give it tend to be from Krypton and merely say "just navigate wisely around that green and red stuff".

..and YOU are exceptional. Good ..bad ..whatever (you seem fine to me

). Not everyone is going to wait nor would one expect them too. I really doubt that you entered into your savings program (really, good for you!) out of some form of paranoid defensive mechanism. It has proven to serve that need, but I imagine it was with some other lofty goal. Early retirement, being poised for something to capitalize on (your house being but one) and you turned it into a lifestyle of gainful minimization. You put yourself into a unique position.

It's not like it would offer the same advantages if it was a "common" position.

Like James Earl Jones said to Der (h)Arnheld in Conan the Barbarian.

"What would you be without me?" How good a position would all of the rhetorical advisers be in if there were not all those formerly functional idiots living beyond their means?? Certainly not in the same position that they are in today. Their distinction is in having the ability to latch on to some status that remains aloft while the floor collapses.

..but it's never anyone saying "Well, I had the good fortune to own a skyhook company" it's always ..well, they didn't have the wisdom to own one too. Any idiot knows that a skyhook is essential to life.

This is no comment on life choices or their effect. Nothing to do with haves or have not ..at least not as the main topic and the reason for my questioning Bill. It's my ongoing study of the human condition and perceptions.

Simply stated: What got you to the position where you're allowed to NOT be part of the herd?

Most will have to admit that they never were mingling with the herd to begin with. Some are in there and have merely avoided the pitfalls out of wise planning.

All of it was surely not based on some single element of rhetorical grandeur. It was but one element in a string of elements and events that produced the favorable outcome. I merely wonder why people only tell 1/10th of the story.

 

[Cutehumor]

Since our economy is based on 70% consumer spending. and if everyone lived within their means, we would have been in a recession along time ago!

 

[Gary Allan]

From about the mid 70's forward. This Empire was built on credit.

 

[hannaco]

I guess I'm just one of the bad guys by not spending every cent, and then some. A few jobs ago, I learned to put away whatever I could because it would be needed to keep the lights on between jobs. When the trucking company I was working for up and locked the doors, the savings sure came in handy. To the credit of the company, they did deliver the last loads of freight, and got the drivers home.
But, they "forgot" to make a few payments to the health insurance company, the 401(k) for the last couple of months, along with the final pay check.
Today, the savings sure help out with all the 3 day work weeks. I am one of the lucky ones, I still get a pay check, if a bit on the thin side.

 

[fdcg27]

One-way walk-up airfares will bring tears to your eyes, as well, especially if you originate from some minor, or EAS, station.

 

[Mr Nice]

The problem is that Americans feel that they work hard for their money. OK , fair enough. So they feel it is OK to buy stuff that is out of their budget and not really necessary cause with a 'payment plan' it is affordable over a few years.

I know a guy who was injured on the job (forklift accident) and settled for $600,000 a few years back and I'm pretty sure that money is all gone, but if he was careful and invested it he could have retired by now.