Snow Tires Without Studs Are Worthless.

Messages
226
Location
eastern WA
there are times when studded winter tires outperform studless winter tires in snow or ice, there are times when studless winter tires out perform studded winter tires on snow or ice. there are very few conditions under which an all season or all terrain tire will outperform a studded or studless winter tire on snow or ice.
 
Messages
194
Let’s put it this way, if it was legal to have studded winter tires where I live, I would have them on my cars. They make that much of a difference If ice is a concern.

My own experience is that winter tires ( non studded ) are a noticeable improvement over all season and even more so the better the tire. I make sure I buy the best winter tires based on tests ( huge Nokian hakka r3 fan ).

The colder the temperature the more noticeable the difference with winter tires.

Plus, I get an insurance discount with winter tires ( some places near me have mandatory winter tire laws ....those places allow studded tires ). Mandatory winter tires December 1 to March 1.

One of the biggest problems where I live is , people don’t even pay attention to how worn out their all seasons are and then winter comes.

From my experience, people who swap summer/winter tires are more aware of how worn out their tires are and replace them earlier ( because the tire shops tell customers if their tires are still good for another season or it’s time to replace them ) Than those who keep all seasons on all year.
 
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Messages
10,064
Location
Bye
.....or the same tire size, or the same vehicle weight, or the same ABS braking system, or the same test temperatures, or the same tire pressures.

Too many uncontrolled variables for a valid comparison of the LX25 to the winter tires.
But that won't stop WS6 from doing so.
 
Messages
10,064
Location
Bye
I agree 100% with you. Yes every area is different, but put here it’s hard to justify snow tires for the 5 times a year that you really need them because they haven’t plowed the roads. As I said in my other post, I’m impressed with the 3PMSF rated tires I just got, they even got over the ice dam at the end of my driveway with no issues.
Yes...if you are satisfied with mediocrity, then by all means-use all-seasons, which are generally mediocre in all conditions.
 
Messages
3,652
Location
Chicagoland
Yes...if you are satisfied with mediocrity, then by all means-use all-seasons, which are generally mediocre in all conditions.
Or I’ll just continue to live in the real world where my 3PMSF rated tires are almost as good without the hassle of having to switch out and store tires every year for the 5 times a year there is enough snow on the road to warrant snow tires 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’ll be putting some 3PMSF rated all terrains on the truck next.

According to TireRack, the Blizzaks take 31ft to stop from 12mph on ice using a 2020 BMW F36 430i Gran Coupe as the test vehicle. The BFGoodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT’s, which I have on my van, take 42ft to stop on a 2016 Porsche Cayenne, which is about 700lbs heavier... I’d call that anything but mediocre.
 
Messages
10,064
Location
Bye
FWIW - I am "too far south" in Canada to legally run studs, they simply aren't permitted as they do too much road damage. I admit I'm scratching my head a little to figure out how "south central US" (not sure just where all that might be) has so much more demanding winter conditions than I see and concludes that non-studded tires are useless. In my area I do drive in a lot of brine and salted slush as opposed to true untreated ice and snow, and I often think it's too "warm" for Hakkas here.

Pretty straightforward...the OP knows ALL!
 
Messages
10,064
Location
Bye
Or I’ll just continue to live in the real world where my 3PMSF rated tires are almost as good without the hassle of having to switch out and store tires every year for the 5 times a year there is enough snow on the road to warrant snow tires 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’ll be putting some 3PMSF rated all terrains on the truck next.

According to TireRack, the Blizzaks take 31ft to stop from 12mph on ice using a 2020 BMW F36 430i Gran Coupe as the test vehicle. The BFGoodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT’s, which I have on my van, take 42ft to stop on a 2016 Porsche Cayenne, which is about 700lbs heavier... I’d call that anything but mediocre.
You're satisfied with mediocrity. That's fine, many people are.
 
Messages
17,739
Location
NH
I ran summer tires once. They sucked. Maybe the tire itself was just a bad one (Nokian i-something, I3 maybe?) but I found myself worried about early winter snows--yet didn't want to drive on snow tires for 6+ months either. I've never had a "good" car so decent all season plus a winter tire for Dec-April is probably good enough for me; until I get some sporty car that I can park for 8-10 months of year I don't plan on ever having "summer" tires again.
 
Messages
3,323
Location
Idaho
According to TireRack, the Blizzaks take 31ft to stop from 12mph on ice using a 2020 BMW F36 430i Gran Coupe as the test vehicle. The BFGoodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT’s, which I have on my van, take 42ft to stop on a 2016 Porsche Cayenne, which is about 700lbs heavier... I’d call that anything but mediocre.
Not really a valid comparison of two tires, because test vehicles and test conditions were not the same for the 2 tires. For a valid comparison, the tire construction should be the only variable. Tire Rack should publish a caution statement about how to interpret their test data.
 
Messages
3,652
Location
Chicagoland
Not really a valid comparison of two tires, because test vehicles and test conditions were not the same for the 2 tires. For a valid comparison, the tire construction should be the only variable. Tire Rack should publish a caution statement about how to interpret their test data.
That’s why I brought up the weight difference and vehicle size difference... the “mediocre” tire does almost as good as the “all supreme snow tire” despite the weight disadvantage, it’s also the closest instrumented comparison I can find. I forgot to mention the Cayenne was tested with 255/55r18 tires vs the BMW’s 225/50r17’s.
 
Messages
31
Location
PA
I haven't used snow tires since the early 80s. The all weathers on my 2 front wheel drive and 4 wheel explorer work great and I've never once had a problem driving in snow. Our tire rep says snow tires are unnecessary with the technology of all weather tires. Even in Alaska or Buffalo NY. I can only speak from my own experience.
 
Messages
2
I have been running Cooper everlution without studs for the past 4 years on a 03 avalon and have never had a problem I swear I could a plow on on do driveways with it The tires have about 25.000 on them and I can get another year out of them easily
 

4WD

Messages
16,627
Location
Texas
I have been running Cooper everlution without studs for the past 4 years on a 03 avalon and have never had a problem I swear I could a plow on on do driveways with it The tires have about 25.000 on them and I can get another year out of them easily
Cool … CE on the short list for the Tahoe soon … Not sure if the SRX is worth the extra coin …
 
Messages
555
Location
Canada
What do you guys think about a mid-grade studded tire (Goodyear WinterCommand) vs premium studless (eg. Michelin X-Ice Snow)?

I figure at the high end, paying more only gets you diminishing returns. Tire review sites will nickel and dime to justify one tire being better than another down to 5 ft of extra stopping distance, but the reality is it makes no practical difference. I'd expect the premium studless to outperform the mid-grade tire marginally in snow/slush performance, but the studded tire will almost always outperform a studless on ice/packed snow...which is where it really matters.
 
Messages
3,652
Location
Chicagoland
What do you guys think about a mid-grade studded tire (Goodyear WinterCommand) vs premium studless (eg. Michelin X-Ice Snow)?

I figure at the high end, paying more only gets you diminishing returns. Tire review sites will nickel and dime to justify one tire being better than another down to 5 ft of extra stopping distance, but the reality is it makes no practical difference. I'd expect the premium studless to outperform the mid-grade tire marginally in snow/slush performance, but the studded tire will almost always outperform a studless on ice/packed snow...which is where it really matters.
Entirely depends on where you live and what you need. If you’re for example driving up and down the side of a mountain every day AND you get snow/ice, I’d go studded if allowed. If you live in a relatively flat area and don’t really get of ice, I’d run studless if I wanted winter tires.
 
Messages
11,404
Location
USA
What do you guys think about a mid-grade studded tire (Goodyear WinterCommand) vs premium studless (eg. Michelin X-Ice Snow)?

I figure at the high end, paying more only gets you diminishing returns. Tire review sites will nickel and dime to justify one tire being better than another down to 5 ft of extra stopping distance, but the reality is it makes no practical difference. I'd expect the premium studless to outperform the mid-grade tire marginally in snow/slush performance, but the studded tire will almost always outperform a studless on ice/packed snow...which is where it really matters.

Get studless and carry a set of chains :)
 
Messages
1,519
Location
iowa
With the way the weather finally turned, studded tire are worthless. I pulled mine off a week ago, and hopefully for another 9 months.
 
Messages
15,769
Location
NE,Ohio
With the way the weather finally turned, studded tire are worthless. I pulled mine off a week ago, and hopefully for another 9 months.
Pulled the conti vikingcontact 7's off the 2020 elantra for some General gmax as-05 WHAT AN UPGRADE.. over the stock round and black tires.

decided after seeing no snow or below freezing daytime temps in the 14day.. to pull the blizzaks off the jeep too.
 
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