Small Hatchbacks

[BearZDefect]

Thank you for the continued feedback on what you've owned and used.

I've never looked at a Scion. Are their dealer prices negotiable as usual, or are they "take it at sticker price or leave it" style?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Are their dealer prices negotiable as usual, or are they "take it at sticker price or leave it" style?

Scion has this thing called "pure price" policy. Basically, each dealer sets the sale price which may or may not be MSRP. But whatever the price that the dealer puts on the car, that's the price that you will have to pay. You may be able to get them to throw in some accessories such as floor mats, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_(automobile)#Pricing.2C_accessories.2C_and_availability

 

[BearZDefect]

Thanks Pete. I saw the "pure price" on Scion's site:
http://www.scion.com/buy/pure_price/

That led me to think, as you wrote, that the only negotiable is to slip some extras in for the price. Or I wonder if they add the usual dealer fee (typically $300-600 range) that can be scratched. I am curious because looking at our local dealer, they have more 2012 vehicles in stock than 2013:

http://www.greensscion.com/New-Inventory.aspx

 

[Quattro Pete]

I think they will still try to slap you with the silly "documentation fee", unless you negotiate well.

When you look at the so called "pure prices" on their website, there is a disclaimer that they do not include destination fee as well as tax, title, license, registration, and documentation fees.

 

[bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
I am on the lookout for a replacement vehicle.

We'd like a hatchback with four doors for utility.
Some of the choices on the market are:

- Honda Fit
- Mazda2 and Mazda3
- Toyota Yaris and Scion xD


I'm sure there are more, please add your suggestions.

This is a class of vehicle in which I'd love a manual transmission, but my wife will be the primary driver and she finds an automatic easier.


Honestly, what I would recommend is to buy a used Mazda of some form or another, and wait until the end of this year. Then, when the new Mazda 3 is released, you can get some serious discounts from Mazda through their loyalty purchasing incentives.

The new Mazda 3 will have a much improved interior, and an exterior that is changed over to the new design. It will still have choice between a fantastic manual transmission, or an equally fantastic automatic, which, in my opinion, is the best in the business currently.

If you were a current Mazda owner, you could get $1500 off of a Mazda 3 from 2 separate loyalty rebates currently available, plus 0% financing for 60 months, plus $500 off if you finance it through Mazda Financing, AND another $1000 in dealer cash from Mazda for negotiation value, right off the top. $3k off a Mazda 3, without even starting the negotiation process? Why not?

BC.

 

[ronbo]

Toyota Matrix

or Kia Soul, great warranty, high reliability and women owners like them.

 

[charbaby]

I have always loved the idea(more than the styling) of a small hatchback. Some of the more expensive hatch's such as the Volvo C30 pictured above and some of the VW's look great. I really like the C30

The little run-a-bouts(Toyota FX, Turismo Hatch Accord Hatch,) that I've had in my past were great cars(mostly) and great to drive 'round town or the hiwy although a bit loud like the description of Honda Fit, where you'll hear/feel everything. But, that's sort'a what makes'em FUN! When you get tired of the noise/bumps, it makes you appreciate the family cruiser(or what ever!)

Nothing like a little fun-a-bout hatch(3 or 5 door) and a good stick shift/4 banger. I kind'a miss'em!

One of my retired buddies, bought himself a Toyota Yaris. He loves it, even the center dash pod(speed-O). It's a great little run/fun-a-bout!

 

[whip]

Sorry for going off topic........ I hear members here post all the time about Hyundai's stellar reliability. Seeing post like this, and others, I just don't get it.

I'd look at the Fit.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: whip
Sorry for going off topic........ I hear members here post all the time about Hyundai's stellar reliability. Seeing post like this, and others, I just don't get it.

I'd look at the Fit.


+1.

Hyundai has been marketing very aggressively, and North Americans are marketing-driven people. The problem I have with them, is they're trying to build a reputation, an egregore of a lovable brand through heavy handed advertising, without EARNING it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: whip
Sorry for going off topic........ I hear members here post all the time about Hyundai's stellar reliability. Seeing post like this, and others, I just don't get it.

OK, but how widespread of a problem is it? This may be an isolated incident for all we know. Every company releases a dud here and there. My brand new '00 Accord had a water leak from day one. If I hadn't noticed it and let it continue (water accumulating under rear passenger floor), it would have turned into a rust bucket soon enough. That's on top of numerous other defects it had due to poor fit and finish and lack of quality control. Why single out Hyundai?

 

[BearZDefect]

Char Baby, you echo how I feel about these small hatchbacks.

Regarding Hyundai reliability, I accept that an occasional dud comes through the assembly line. In the case of Hyundai, the offensive part is how it is impossible to get their dealer to acknowledge a problem under warranty, let alone fix it.

I suspect this is because Hyundai underpays them for warranty work. The only problem they have fixed is this water leak. I read over what they claimed they had to do, and their bill to Hyundai: $170. If they had billed me, it would have been around $500. It's worse than the health insurance racket.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
In the case of Hyundai, the offensive part is how it is impossible to get their dealer to acknowledge a problem under warranty, let alone fix it.

If it makes you feel any better, my Honda dealer was no better. It took several visits and an involvement of an external contractor to figure out where the water was coming from and how to fix it. As for the air leak (making annoying whistling sound when at hwy speeds), they were completely useless. So, on my own, I had to gradually tape up the entire front of the car to finally pinpoint the source and hand it to the dealer on a silver platter. Otherwise, they just shook their heads and said they can't do anything.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: whip
Sorry for going off topic........ I hear members here post all the time about Hyundai's stellar reliability. Seeing post like this, and others, I just don't get it.

OK, but how widespread of a problem is it? This may be an isolated incident for all we know..... Why single out Hyundai?


I singled out Hyundai because I see a lot of posters make comments about how good they are, but I see a lot of Hyundai's rusting and needing repairs. I have a few friends that have had them, and they all seemed to have problems beyond what I'd call normal. CV joint and transmission problems before 100,000 miles. Door handles and interior pieces falling off. Rust coming through the paint.

 

[dja4260]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Char Baby, you echo how I feel about these small hatchbacks.

Regarding Hyundai reliability, I accept that an occasional dud comes through the assembly line. In the case of Hyundai, the offensive part is how it is impossible to get their dealer to acknowledge a problem under warranty, let alone fix it.

I suspect this is because Hyundai underpays them for warranty work. The only problem they have fixed is this water leak. I read over what they claimed they had to do, and their bill to Hyundai: $170. If they had billed me, it would have been around $500. It's worse than the health insurance racket.

FYI Hyundai and Toyota have the same warranty underwriters. One is just longer then the other. I find service varies from dealer to dealer.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: whip

I singled out Hyundai because I see a lot of posters make comments about how good they are, but I see a lot of Hyundai's rusting and needing repairs. I have a few friends that have had them, and they all seemed to have problems beyond what I'd call normal. CV joint and transmission problems before 100,000 miles. Door handles and interior pieces falling off. Rust coming through the paint.


I am inclined to agree. I've serviced two Elantra - one 2007 and one 2008. The 2008 has 90k and has already has a leaking left/front outer cv boot, which is not something I would expect. The drive belts were also missing most of their ribs.

The 2007 had 55,000 miles and the right/rear shock was completely blown (heavy coat of oil covering the entire shock).

However, the cars were relatively easy to service.

 

[charbaby]

OFF TOPIC:

My sister and BIL turned to Toyota many years ago to get away from the unreliable domestic vehicles that they had.

Although, I have heard/read mixed reviews about Hyundai's quality/reliability, my sister & BIL have turned to Hyundai/KIA from Toyota.

They only buy used vehicles and they never had any issues with their Toyota's but, they have found that the Hyundai/KIA vehicles are a better value(cheaper/more stuff) on the pre-owned market(for as long as they keep vehicles) and every bit as reliable and nice to drive.

Right now, I don't think that they'll go back to Toyota unless the deal is too good. And that goes for any vehicle I guess!

 

[BearZDefect]

We have another rainy day, and our Sonata still leaks water into the cabin. Same place, slower leak. Somebody at Glenn Hyundai didn't do their work properly. Now we have to schedule another visit to the dealer. Sigh.


Back to the main topic: I looked through dealer inventories for Fiesta hatchbacks with a manual transmission. I can't find a single one in Kentucky or the Cincinnati area. Fiesta stock is generally low too. I see the 2014 is coming soon, but I don't care for its exterior appearance.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

If you go to a dealer, they should be able to get you one and "trade" with another dealer. Don't know why, but cars in this segment have really been getting my attention.

I was the one that said I'd never own anything smaller than my Taurus ...

I like the:
Sonic
Versa
Spark
Fietsa

The spark really reminds me of the Versa - way too much interior room for it's size on the outside.

The others on the market seem to be too small for their size (Yaris) or too expensive (Fit)

 

[BearZDefect]

I've looked at the Sonic, without driving one. The front end appearance doesn't cut it for me.

We went to the nearby Scion dealer. The xD was ruled out by my wife for being too small. We looked over and drove an xB. Nice engine, but I didn't like the way the vehicle drove, and wife didn't appreciate the floppy (tall?) ride and rough interior.

We went to the nearby Mazda dealer. There we looked over and drove a mazda3 hatchback Touring. The interior was again unimpressive, and wife didn't care for the front seats. The engine was uninspiring, but adequate IMO. Road noise was decently controlled, but at highway speeds wind noise became loud. The automatic transmission worked well, though it wasn't keen to downshift - I'm ok with that because at least it doesn't do the lame TCC unlock

, and it responds if pushed hard enough. No engine temperature gauge

? What's the excuse for those rear sway bar links hanging down underneath like they are seeking a rock to kiss? We were not disappointed with the handling.

These first hand evaluations take too much prime time.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Well, if you were willing to consider Mazda3 with its DI engine, then you should take a look at Focus as well.