Sludgy 1990 F150 5.0

[cbrf3]

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It comes from behind the cam retainer plate.

I suppose we should have removed that while we were in there. Would that have helped? We cleaned everything else reachable including behind the distributor gear. Suppose that should have come out at that time as well to clean in out better. We are amateurs after all.

 

[DuckRyder]

Would that have helped?

It is been 20 years since i was in a windsor, but my recollection is that there is a passage behind that tab, its about 180 from ka9's passage under the Distributor gear in your picture.

What i do not remember is how the passage is oiled, Overkill may very well be right (probably is) that it is just slung off the gear...

 

[OVERKILL]

It is been 20 years since i was in a windsor, but my recollection is that there is a passage behind that tab, its about 180 from ka9's passage under the Distributor gear in your picture.

What i do not remember is how the passage is oiled, Overkill may very well be right (probably is) that it is just slung off the gear...

There's a hole coming right off the main valvetrain gallery which is essentially restricted by the flow path through that entire area. The oil makes its way into that section, and then out those slots in the back of the upper timing gear. It's supposed to get flung onto the backside of the chain there, lubes the interface with the thrust plate, and go through the holes in the upper gear and onto the slinger. The same happens with the oil being flung off the distributor gear onto the chain, except that's only really lubing chain, not the rest of it like the gallery feed.

The channel in the thrust plate you posted the picture of is what direct the oil into that area from the feed hole behind it:

The other large hole is plugged off.

You can see the feed in the bearing on this one:

So, either there's a corresponding hole on the other side of that bearing, or we are seeing a chunk of dirt in the OP's picture and mistaking it for this feed hole, lol.

 

[OVERKILL]

Looking at this picture, I'm leaning more toward that piece being a chunk of dirt, since it looks like the 2nd hole is at the bottom:

 

[cbrf3]

After the timing chain was replaced, the noise was still heard especially under load at low RPM. So, my son wanted to have a look under the valve covers. One rocker arm nut was a bit loose. He then started all over and hand tightened all of the nuts when the valve spring had zero tension and then torqued them all to 23-24 pounds. This seemed to solve the noise issue. Pictures below.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Good find on the rocker arm. That engine still needs a lot of cleaning. It would be a good candidate for some HPL EC.

I also haven't seen a timing chain quite that rusty from an engine driven regularly. It kinda makes me miss my old SBF builds. I haven't done one in several years.

 

[OVERKILL]

Good find on the rocker arm. That engine still needs a lot of cleaning. It would be a good candidate for some HPL EC.

I also haven't seen a timing chain quite that rusty from an engine driven regularly. It kinda makes me miss my old SBF builds. I haven't done one in several years.

I've got the OG timing chain out of my old '89 Town Car hanging in my uninsulated garage on the wall and it's got no rust on it. I can't believe this timing set, both dry and rusty. You are quite right, there's a LOT of cleaning to be done, but I'm concerned at what looks like inadequate oil volume being delivered to that area.

 

[MSCH]

look at it this way, it has been running for 33 years.. so whatever it looks like it is a survivor.

 

[gfh77665]

Its nice, but it is a used 1990 pickup. Keep that in mind. I would not go to further great effort or expense to clean it spotless. You will get a diminishing return. You got a very good start on it. Now, low tech and inexpensive is best. Use 1qt. MMO for last 500 miles of your next oil change. Then, use 1qt. of MMO every oil change from that point on. Its all you will ever need for a 1990 truck.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I've got the OG timing chain out of my old '89 Town Car hanging in my uninsulated garage on the wall and it's got no rust on it. I can't believe this timing set, both dry and rusty. You are quite right, there's a LOT of cleaning to be done, but I'm concerned at what looks like inadequate oil volume being delivered to that area.

If it was mine, I would've coated that timing area in HPL Ultra Muscle and let it soak for a bit before taking a brush and rags to it. I'd clean out as much as I could physically reach. Then I would've changed the oil with a quart of EC blended in a good shelf oil like M1 0W-40. Reinstall the timing cover (leaving the gear off for now) and pull the distributor. Use a pan heater to bring oil up to 160-180°F and put a drill on the pump drive for several minutes, giving the drill a break periodically. All the while, the new timing set would be submerged in a high ZDDP break-in oil. Pull the cover, ensure it's covered in fresh oil in there, install the new timing set, and reinstall the cover. Prime it again before installing the distributor and starting it.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Its nice, but it is a used 1990 pickup. Keep that in mind. I would not go to further great effort or expense to clean it spotless. You will get a diminishing return. You got a very good start on it. Now, low tech and inexpensive is best. Use 1qt. MMO for last 500 miles of your next oil change. Then, use 1qt. of MMO every oil change from that point on. Its all you will ever need for a 1990 truck.

The "cleaners" in MMO are isopropyl alcohol and light naphtha which combined are
For cleaning, you want something more polar with a high boiling point (>500°F) to ensure it hangs around long enough to actually clean. Esters are great for this as they promote a slow dissolution of the sludge's polar organic compounds, and unlike MMO, do so without sacrificing lubricity, viscosity, additive response, and service life.

 

[Donald]

Lots of ideas here. If the engine runs fine now the sludge is not hurting it. You just don't want it to get any worse. I would run a decent synthetic oil and let the oil clean things slowly. Maybe very slowly. Just as long as the sludge does not get worse.

You know the engine has sludge. There are probably millions of engines with the same amount of sludge that the owner is not aware of the sludge. And probably does not care.

 

[cbrf3]

You are quite right, there's a LOT of cleaning to be done, but I'm concerned at what looks like inadequate oil volume being delivered to that area.

I suppose at this point we have to hope the total sludge clean-up in that area helped.
Think a quart of HPL Engine Cleaner might give this area a better chance?

 

[DemoFly]

Good find on the rocker arm. That engine still needs a lot of cleaning. It would be a good candidate for some HPL EC.

I also haven't seen a timing chain quite that rusty from an engine driven regularly. It kinda makes me miss my old SBF builds. I haven't done one in several years.

I disagree. Just run a quality PCMO or dual rated HDEO and not worry about it.

For reference, here's a 90's pushrod V8 that has only seen synthetic since it's factory fill with 260k miles.

 

[OVERKILL]

I suppose at this point we have to hope the total sludge clean-up in that area helped.
Think a quart of HPL Engine Cleaner might give this area a better chance?

I like @RDY4WAR's recommendation of 1 quart of HPL EC with M1 0W-40.

 

[OVERKILL]

I disagree. Just run a quality PCMO or dual rated HDEO and not worry about it.

For reference, here's a 90's pushrod V8 that has only seen synthetic since it's factory fill with 260k miles.

View attachment 189213

Jesus, I can just imagine the ring lands in that puppy

 

[DemoFly]

Jesus, I can just imagine the ring lands in that puppy
View attachment 189251

I wish I knew where I saved the pic of the lifter valley. It was relatively clean.

More context, this engine has seen KREEN (back when that was the MUST USE cleaner on this forum) and it didn't make a difference on the heads. There just isn't enough flow on a gen 2 and hardly any of it makes contact with the head casting.

 

[OVERKILL]

I wish I knew where I saved the pic of the lifter valley. It was relatively clean.

More context, this engine has seen KREEN (back when that was the MUST USE cleaner on this forum) and it didn't make a difference on the heads. There just isn't enough flow on a gen 2 and hardly any of it makes contact with the head casting.

He had serious dried sludge, while you have that deep purple lacquer. Different manifestations of similar phenomena, his being considerably worse, given the build-up that he's already cleaned out of it, but that we now see more of in the timing cover area.

Both point to oil not doing its job keeping contaminants in suspension and allowing them to agglomerate and plate-out on surfaces, a problem I suspect that was considerably more common in past decades.

I'd think you'd need to do Kreen + a toothbrush to scrub that stuff off, that lacquer is difficult to remove, flow with it mixed into the oil isn't going to touch it, as you discovered.

 

[MSCH]

I wouldn't go to far in makin any judgements on a 33 or 34 year old engine.
especially if you don't know it's maintenance history.
best bet with anything like that is to either do the minimum possible to keep it running
or else if it needs a real repair and it is worth putting the money into the vehicle would be to take the thing apart and do the whole thing.

 

[gfh77665]

The "cleaners" in MMO are isopropyl alcohol and light naphtha which combined are

I am not generally an advocate for additives, although a few are definitely effective and have their place in certain applications. MMO has been around for a very long time with demonstrable results. MMO would, as I said, be a simple, economical, effective treatment for sludging in a 1990 truck engine. It cleans, cheaply.