Sludge cleanup MMO experience + 25% MPG, no kidding

gathermewool

Site Donor
Messages
8,733
Location
New England
Originally Posted by jssaab
My sludged engine got 22-23 reliably on the same drive now it is where it should be, 28 on the highway ( no better, just back to where it should be.) I changed one variable, I added MMO. (temperature the same, drive is the same, I have not lost any weight (but trying), the air in tires not touched.(if anything less since I have not checked and air only leaks does not build at the same temperature (le Chatlier's principle - since you quoted Feynman) The only way to check it would be to let the engine sludge again and see if the mileage goes back down and repeat. Not trying to prove anything, just reporting an observation or as Feynman woudl also say, "The idea is to try to give all the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another." I think my theory about the VVT solenoids could be the reason, but whatever,
You did not just add MMO. You bought a sludged engine and...changed the oil. That was step one in de-sludging. You then changed the oil again; step two of de-sludging an engine. MMO is simply along for the ride. No one reading this or your previous threads should focus on MMO as the main contributor here, but the fact that simply changing the oil and continuing with a prudent OCI is key to slowly and efficiently cleaning a sludged engine. Your theory about VVT actuation is very plausible.
 

jssaab

Thread starter
Messages
62
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
As it goes with just the M1, as mentioned in my previous thread, for 250 miles (22 mpg), then new syn, drove 500 more, no MMO and Mileage was 22 (same drive) started adding MMO and it came back. Would M1 continue cleaning after removed, or a second change continue cleaning like that? Ok, I'll take that. Regardless, 4 dollars of MMO was 8 dollar less than the quart of M1 it would replace, and I used cheap syn the second time then added MMO slowly. I am happy however it worked. Dint; hurt, cost less, used cheaper oil. Will do one HDEO change for a final clean, then back to M1. We will see how things go
 
Last edited:
Messages
7,876
Location
Hudson, NH
Originally Posted by jssaab
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
I use the Nissans in my signature as guinea pigs for any and all additive experiments. After reading this I gave both 2 glugs of MMO in the gas. Maybe it will survive combustion long enough to clean the piston tops. or maybe lube the injectors.
Good gas already has detergent additives, no need to use anything in the tank unless maybe its been run on the cheap stuff of a long time and you notice lack of performance or carbon on the valves, but if so I would use techron, it is what gives chevron cleaning power . I think that was a pretty stoopid idea, but do report back if you see any changes.
Why do you think MMO in the gas was a pretty stoopid idea?
 

jssaab

Thread starter
Messages
62
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
It makes sense for cleaning sludge but adding more carbon to clean carbon out of a combustion chamber never made sense, Gasoline detergents do not (should not) contain Carbon, when carbon containing compounds burns it leaves residue. Just like gas. It makes sense in oil because it thins the oil and breaks it down when it clumps in sludge.
 
Messages
4,597
Location
Manchester, England
You mention VPB which is supposed to be good at cleaning - I have a very scientific gut-feeling that Redline has the same cleaning effect. Theyre both Pao and Ester but one is a lot cheaper than the other. Run 1 quart Redline and fill the rest with Supertech for your next interval and inspect it after you drain
 
Messages
16,548
Location
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted by jssaab
It makes sense for cleaning sludge but adding more carbon to clean carbon out of a combustion chamber never made sense, Gasoline detergents do not (should not) contain Carbon, when carbon containing compounds burns it leaves residue. Just like gas. It makes sense in oil because it thins the oil and breaks it down when it clumps in sludge.
What? That is not correct, not all carbon compounds are the same. Where did you learn chemistry? What are the inorganic detergents that you're referring to?
 
Messages
35,457
Location
NY
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Super Tech Synthetic + Rislone = a cost effective engine clean up .
Agree!
There's more than one way to skin a cat. wink
 
Messages
1,776
Location
Kingston
It's funny how years ago MMO had a great reputation on here, that was when I learned about it and seafoam and only bought those instead of other snake oils on the market. I don't know if this is a different generation on people on the forum who feel differently, or new information has come out about them that I missed or what. I've used MMO for a piston soak over winter storage, can't say if it helped because I didn't have a major problem to solve. I have a 44 year old engine that had very slightly lower compression on a few cylinders compared to other (like 128psi vs 145 iirc), never got around to a compression test this year unfortunately. Even if I did and it was higher it could also be attributed to 12 years of synthetic oil changes at 4-5k miles or less.
 
Messages
1,776
Location
Kingston
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
If you believe the video here ya go
This test isn't really comparable to a modern engine with variable valve timing, that lawnmower engine wouldn't even have an oil pump pickup to clog. The risk of a sludge related failure would be much higher on a newer engine. However the video does show the cleaning ability. Anytime you have a sludged engine, trying to clean it out can have some risk. Doing nothing about it is also risky. There's going to be many different opinions on the best way to try to clean it out. I'm glad the op seems to have had good success with the method(s) he tried.
 

jssaab

Thread starter
Messages
62
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by jssaab
It makes sense for cleaning sludge but adding more carbon to clean carbon out of a combustion chamber never made sense, Gasoline detergents do not (should not) contain Carbon, when carbon containing compounds burns it leaves residue. Just like gas. It makes sense in oil because it thins the oil and breaks it down when it clumps in sludge.
What? That is not correct, not all carbon compounds are the same. Where did you learn chemistry? What are the inorganic detergents that you're referring to?
At Penn I had a couple of chemistry classes but yeah that was a long time ago. I'm a bit confused. I said Carbon containing detergents would not be good and based on my knowledge of chemistry, Organic solvents contain carbon. MMO is only organic solvents a mix of Stoddard solvent and Mineral spirits. Mineral spirits is a specific mixture of hydrocarbons, typically over 65% and mineral oil is A mixture of aliphatic, open-chain or alicyclic C7 to C12 hydrocarbons Yeah I googled it, like I said it was a long long time ago I had Chem. I just know MMO in general is turpentine which was originally made from wood (wood oil) so my "scientificky" guess is adding carbon containing compounds to gas will up carbon content and burn, not clean. Burning gas causes carbon in the engine, that's what p[people try to get rid of wiht an additive I think. Gasoliine detergents use mostly Akylamines, which have only one carbon atom per molecules (not the c7-c14 of MMO ingredients, which is a "sh!t-ton" - 6to 12 times carbon content) yeah sh!t-ton s a sciencey word, we used it back in the lab all the time ). MMO also burns (support combustion), Aklyamines do not, (they vaporize) So my theory is that adding something with more carbon in it is not a good idea and will not reduce carbon buildup. But what do I know, like I said that was a long time ago.
 
Last edited:

jssaab

Thread starter
Messages
62
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
It's funny how years ago MMO had a great reputation on here, that was when I learned about it and seafoam and only bought those instead of other snake oils on the market. I don't know if this is a different generation on people on the forum who feel differently, or new information has come out about them that I missed or what. I've used MMO for a piston soak over winter storage, can't say if it helped because I didn't have a major problem to solve. I have a 44 year old engine that had very slightly lower compression on a few cylinders compared to other (like 128psi vs 145 iirc), never got around to a compression test this year unfortunately. Even if I did and it was higher it could also be attributed to 12 years of synthetic oil changes at 4-5k miles or less.
Like I said I had a sludged engine that I cleaned with oil changes years back, it developed a rod knock shortly after, I added MMO, silenced the knock enough to get a great trade at the dealer after inspection. Go with what you know, you know?
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
If you believe the video here ya go
This test isn't really comparable to a modern engine with variable valve timing, that lawnmower engine wouldn't even have an oil pump pickup to clog. The risk of a sludge related failure would be much higher on a newer engine. However the video does show the cleaning ability. Anytime you have a sludged engine, trying to clean it out can have some risk. Doing nothing about it is also risky. There's going to be many different opinions on the best way to try to clean it out. I'm glad the op seems to have had good success with the method(s) he tried.
Yeah I would take that video to show solvent effect of MMO not indicative of what it would do in a VVT engine. 2 stroke vs 4 stoke, oil/gas mixture. All i said is I wanted to clean sludge slowly looks like it did. If i peed in the engine and p!ss worked, good for me. I posted asking for opinions in another thread, thought carefully and went the way I did. Yeah I could have gone a bunch of different ways, this seemed to work. was easy enough and cheap enough so here we are, engine seems fine ( according to mpg) so I think I am done with cleaning it it seems and any more posts here are beating a dead cat. Hopefully I will not have another issue to relate here and my M1 changes at 5K miles is all I need for another 100K miles. (Probably not I will go electric soon, no moving parts to lubricate at high temps, genius really) If in the future things change I might be back and there will be more magic of chemistry invented and more products debated. I had a lot of good suggestions and comments here, thanks to everyone even for the debate, always fun.
 
Last edited:
Messages
561
Location
Ohio
I'm running another dose of kreen and maxlife 0-20 in my altima in hopes of freeing whatever went wrong on the assembly line lol. More so I'm seeing if 0-20 burns more in an engine that calls for 5-30. I can tell you for sure that kreen mixed with 0-20 makes for some pretty thin stuff.
 

gathermewool

Site Donor
Messages
8,733
Location
New England
Originally Posted by jssaab
As it goes with just the M1, as mentioned in my previous thread, for 250 miles (22 mpg), then new syn, drove 500 more, no MMO and Mileage was 22 (same drive) started adding MMO and it came back. Would M1 continue cleaning after removed, or a second change continue cleaning like that? Ok, I'll take that. Regardless, 4 dollars of MMO was 8 dollar less than the quart of M1 it would replace, and I used cheap syn the second time then added MMO slowly. I am happy however it worked. Dint; hurt, cost less, used cheaper oil. Will do one HDEO change for a final clean, then back to M1. We will see how things go
Unless you start taking things apart, there's no way to know what caused your increase in MPG and if it will be sustained. My point is that MMO isn't a harsh solvent and it's just as likely that changing out the contaminated oil with fresh oil continued to clean. I think it was you who mentioned that this vehicle has VVT. Should it have thrown a code if the oil passages were blocked and the VVT wasn't actuating properly? If not, maybe the MMO-thinned oil simply finally made its way through the solenoid and you got your VVT back. // You mentioned this is a cartridge filter, right? What did the filter look like after each interval?
 
Messages
4,035
Location
WA
Originally Posted by jssaab
I posted asking for opinions in another thread, thought carefully and went the way I did. Yeah I could have gone a bunch of different ways, this seemed to work. was easy enough and cheap enough so here we are, engine seems fine ( according to mpg) so I think I am done with cleaning it it seems and any more posts here are beating a dead cat. Hopefully I will not have another issue to relate here and my M1 changes at 5K miles is all I need for another 100K miles. (Probably not I will go electric soon, no moving parts to lubricate at high temps, genius really) If in the future things change I might be back and there will be more magic of chemistry invented and more products debated. I had a lot of good suggestions and comments here, thanks to everyone even for the debate, always fun.
Don't let naysayers prevent you from posting in the future, I enjoyed your posts. I've found that with MMO there are two groups of people for the most part.. the one's that have used it and like it and the one's who haven't and don't. There's actually no "mystery" to the product. The MSDS lists all the constituents and each has some cleaning properties. Even member Mola' weighed in on MMO a while back after doing an analysis on it in his lab and while he didn't say it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, he also didn't liken it to snake oil. Is it the strongest cleaner out there, definitely not. But if you're not looking for a harsh cleaner it's def' worth giving a try, especially given it's low cost and many other uses. Live long and prosper brother...✌️
 
Last edited:

gathermewool

Site Donor
Messages
8,733
Location
New England
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by jssaab
I posted asking for opinions in another thread, thought carefully and went the way I did. Yeah I could have gone a bunch of different ways, this seemed to work. was easy enough and cheap enough so here we are, engine seems fine ( according to mpg) so I think I am done with cleaning it it seems and any more posts here are beating a dead cat. Hopefully I will not have another issue to relate here and my M1 changes at 5K miles is all I need for another 100K miles. (Probably not I will go electric soon, no moving parts to lubricate at high temps, genius really) If in the future things change I might be back and there will be more magic of chemistry invented and more products debated. I had a lot of good suggestions and comments here, thanks to everyone even for the debate, always fun.
Don't let naysayers prevent you from posting in the future, I enjoyed your posts. I've found that with MMO there are two groups of people for the most part.. the one's that have used it and like it and the one's who haven't and don't. There's actually no "mystery" to the product. The MSDS lists all the constituents and each has some cleaning properties. Even member Mola' weighed in on MMO a while back after doing an analysis on it in his lab and while he didn't say it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, he also didn't liken it to snake oil. Is it the strongest cleaner out there, definitely not. But if you're not looking for a harsh cleaner it's def' worth giving a try, especially given it's low cost and many other uses. Live long and prosper brother...✌️
Molakule NOT classifying a relatively benign additive, such as MMO, as snake oil = quite the endorsement. no-no
 
Top