Should I run a Larger oil filter?

[Toy4x4runner]

Fist off, let me say i'm new on the board and this is my 1st post. so a Hello to all. I've been researching oil filters and oil for a few years now and finally decided to register on the forum.

Ok, Question... I have a '94 4runner that has the 3VZ 3.0 V6 engine. I have 140,000 miles on currently. I did some research a while back about running a "larger" filter. Stock PureOne is a PL10241. The "taller" version of that filter is PL20195, used in Ford applications. same bypass PSI and also has a ADBV. It's just 4.74" tall vs 3.36". Same outside diamter for both filters. What are the advantages of running a larger filter? are there any cons?

FYI... I'm a PureOne or Wix type man. Not sure which is best. 1 of the reasons I joined the board. Thanks in advance.

I guess I should state what the truck is used for.. forgot to say. I live in south FL where it's HOT AS HECK in the summer and even hot in the winter. I am currently running 10-30 Mobil 1 or 10-30 Havoline Syn (bought it on sale). Truck is Lifted, daily driven in Tampa traffic, Off-roaded on the weekend and sees some crazy hill climbs and rock crawling action. That's why I've been debating switching to 15w-40 Shell Rotella on my next change.

 

[muddawgs]

as long as the specs and bypass is the same then you wont really see any difference and a little more oil. if you have the clearance in your sas'd and lifted toy the go for it. most are the same price and it maybe easier to grab and hold.

 

[Virtuoso]

Sometimes the bigger filter has less efficient media.

For instance: The 51516 (FL400S) Wix has media with a Beta ratio of 2/20=14/31 (Half of 14s, almost all of the 31 micron particles); where the 51515 (FL-1 xref) has 19/41 rated media.

Although, their website says the Nominal rating for the 51515 is 19 and then 20 for the 51516; witch dosen't really match the Beta ratios, does it?

 

[UncleS2]

Will a larger diameter fit? If so, to stay near the same length, you might try the Pure One PL14670, or the Wix 51085.

 

[Toy4x4runner]

Well, the OEM filter for my toyota is a WIX # 51348. The larger filter for my 3.0L toyota would be wix 51516 (ford filter). It's just taller.

Purolator told me that all their filters have the same beta ratios b/c the media they use is the same in all of them. is that true or fumes?

 

[Gary Allan]

Purolator told me that all their filters have the same beta ratios b/c the media they use is the same in all of them. is that true or fumes?


That cannot be true. If they said that all their PureOne share the same media that would be something that I would believe.

I really cannot imagine why Wix would have all those different medias on the same level of quality. The medias must be different since they often share the same flow rating and other spec's ..yet yield different beta numbers ..even when the can is of like size. That is, I could see a very large can with the same media giving better numbers due to oil having a lower velocity through the media ...yet one of the biggest filters offered has a fairly poor beta rating (51773)

 

[Eddie]

To many variables to say bigger is better. Area of media,type of media and of course quality of the construction as in leaking media end caps and valves etc.

 

[Toy4x4runner]

well, ok. Comparing a wix 51348, 51516 & 51068.

(OEM)
51348:
Height- 3.404
O.D. - 2.921
Bypass- 8-11
BeataR: 2/20=21/37
flow: 7-9
ADBV: Y

(Taller 51348)
51516:
Height- 4.828
O.D. - 2.921
Bypass- 8-11
BeataR: 2/20=14/31
flow: 7-9
ADBV: Y


51068:
Height- 4.338
O.D. - 3.660
Bypass- 8-11
BeataR: 2/20=10/26
flow: 7-9
ADBV: Y

Thos are my Wix options. if I got P1 my options are the stock PL10241 or a (tall) PL20195.

[ March 31, 2006, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Toy4x4runner ]

 

[Gary Allan]

That 51068 appears to be quite good in terms of the beta numbers ..the 51516 not far behind.

Between those and a PureOne, I'd go with whichever is more available/cheaper.

 

[Toy4x4runner]

well since I've been using P1's I'll give that 51068 wix a shot.

 

[Toy4x4runner]

Gary Allan. what do you think I should run? the factory sized wix/p1 or the taller p1/wix?

 

[Toy4x4runner]

P1's are $5.88 but I get a discount b/c I work there. Napa golds are i think $5.79 no discount. We're talking about saving $1-2. I could care less, i'm trying to get a good filter lol. Like I said though P1 doesn't make the older larger toyota filter but wix does... so i'll give it a try.

 

[csaxon]

Part Number: 51515
Principal Application: Toyota Landcruiser (71-96) - (Two Quart version is 51773)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 5.178
Outer Diameter: 3.660
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=19/41
Burst Pressure-PSI: 270
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 19

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

 

[Blake Sobiloff]

I used to think that a larger oil filter would be great because it would filter better, but I haven't really seen this effect in my personal UOAs. Has anyone seen a larger filter make a measurable difference in their UOAs?

I guess I'm assuming that a larger filter should show up in a UOA as a drop in wear particles. Is that even a valid assumption, or do UOAs count particles that are too small for any conventional filter to capture? If so, what's the point of a larger filter for a mechanically sound vehicle?

 

[Greaser]

Blake...In my case,as in most cases, a larger filter is easier to handle for installation,cheaper in price (1515 Ford oversize)and you can find this filter anywhere in a pinch.More oil in the system is a plus also is slight heat dissipation and even less by-pass time in cold weather (still under investigation).All in all it's the bigger is better theory but in UOA's there should be no change.

 

[Toy4x4runner]

well I'll only use a larger filter that has better Beta ratios. Like my OEM is 21/37. the larger one I'm eying is 10/26. Not sure about P1's b/c they don't post info. At the very least a larger filter should flow more and keep it from going into bypass as much. I think for a "stock" filter my choice is P1. but for a larger filter I might do the Wix 51068 which P1 doesn't make a Xfer to anymore. But I think every situation has to be looked at carefully before deciding wix or P1 or even larger or stock size filter.

 

[Titan]

Everything else constant, the larger filter will "perform" better. Better performance means: filter more junk and/or go into pressure relief mode less (assuming pressures slowly approach the line where the valve opens), and/or provide more flow and/or less pressure drop.

HOWEVER, just because it performs better, it does NOT mean that your engine will last longer, run cleaner, or anything else. IOW, performance of the smaller filter may be good enough to the point that anything better is overkill. THAT is the real question: what is good enough so that better doesn't affect engine life?

 

[Toy4x4runner]

well I can't run the wix 51068 b/c it's diamter is to large and will hit my pressure switch. So my only option is the stock filter size or the 1.38" taller one.

Titan- I think you're right and that's why a Honda doesn't come with a full size Chevy small block oil filter on it. b/c they know it's overkill for that engine. Only reason I'm probly gonna run that tad bit taller filter is b/c I'm gonna be running 15/40 oil so i'm scared of it going into bypass mode more than with 10/30. So my real reason for it in general is.... to keep it out of bypass mode!! which to me with a PureOne is a good reason being the bypass is at the dome end.

 

[spiderbypass]

I would consider putting an oil bypass filter like oilguard on your vehicle...$160 for system, filter elements are 13 to replace. The new amsoil ea oil filter seems like an excellent product to run as your "regular" oil filter.

 

[Titan]

toy4x4runner wrote: Only reason I'm probly gonna run that tad bit taller filter is b/c I'm gonna be running 15/40 oil so i'm scared of it going into bypass mode more than with 10/30. So my real reason for it in general is.... to keep it out of bypass mode!! which to me with a PureOne is a good reason being the bypass is at the dome end.

Both reasons seem sound to me. If the larger filter has the same media, there will be less flow per unit of media, which allows less pressure drop across the media at a given flowrate. AND, with the end-cap bypass, you can theoretically get washed-off particles from the filter media as that pressure valve opens.

Now you just have to be sure you want to go 15-40!