The Honda Oil Filter Thread

[Sqauredup]

If your oil is at operating temperature then I wouldn't worry about any of those oil filters going into bypass. What oil viscosity are you running?

either 0w20 or 0w30

 

[ZeeOSix]

either 0w20 or 0w30

If your oil is close to or at operating temperature, then the filter isn't going to hit bypass. Doubt the oil pump on that engine isn't putting out a ton of flow even at redline.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Been driving Honda Accords since the early 1990s. We have used the Mobil1 M1-110A with Amsoil for extended oci.
For the cars we did not do long oci on we used (still do now) the Honda 15400 PLMA02. Both filters worked flawless
on what ever vehicle we used them on. Honestly have never had an oil filter issue except maybe not liking the gasket on
some. Even have used Fram or STP a few times with zero issue.

Just few places to find the Honda 15400 PLMA02 besides tons for sale at Amazon or Ebay.

Honda Parts Direct
https://www.hondapartsdirect.com
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b8a5...HM6Ly93d3cuaG9uZGFwYXJ0c2RpcmVjdC5jb20v&ntb=1

Honda Parts Now
https://www.hondapartsnow.com › genuine



OEM Parts Online
https://honda.oempartsonline.com
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=19c6...maWx0ZXJ-b2lsfjE1NDAwLXBsbS1hMDIuaHRtbA&ntb=1

 

[Hohn]

Question on the pentius/ pg and even the old fram xg series. My Civic spends a few weekends at track events its just a stock k24z nothing special, wondering at high rpm would these filters go into by pass?
Should I look at a mid grade option like say the purolator one with less filtering ability and im assuming with that more flow?

I don’t think there’s much probability of filters going into bypass on account of track use. The thinner viscosity from hotter oil temps is likely to completely offset the higher flow rate. And to be sure, the higher flow rate in track use *also* primarily from the higher temps.

Oil pumps are typically on the regulator at any engine speed over 2k rpm or so. Which means that spinning the pump faster (higher RPM) doesn’t increase flow or pressure in terms of pump output.

Higher RPM does increase oil flow through the bearings primarily by increasing the shear rate and the “leakage” rate of the journal bearings. Wherever oil is feeding a fixed orifice or a non-rotating shaft, however, oil flow rate has no relation to RPM. It’s just pressure pushing through a fixed orifice and doubling RPM has no effect on flow if the oil temp is the same.

All that to say— the filter you use on the street is perfectly sufficient for the track. If you have any concerns, just make sure the filter is fresh. The filter’s restriction doesn’t change a ton with RPM, but it DOES change a lot from brand new to end of life.

 

[Hohn]

Been driving Honda Accords since the early 1990s. We have used the Mobil1 M1-110A with Amsoil for extended oci.
For the cars we did not do long oci on we used (still do now) the Honda 15400 PLMA02. Both filters worked flawless
on what ever vehicle we used them on. Honestly have never had an oil filter issue except maybe not liking the gasket on
some. Even have used Fram or STP a few times with zero issue.

Just few places to find the Honda 15400 PLMA02 besides tons for sale at Amazon or Ebay.

Honda Parts Direct
https://www.hondapartsdirect.com
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b8a5...HM6Ly93d3cuaG9uZGFwYXJ0c2RpcmVjdC5jb20v&ntb=1

Honda Parts Now
https://www.hondapartsnow.com › genuine



OEM Parts Online
https://honda.oempartsonline.com
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=19c6...maWx0ZXJ-b2lsfjE1NDAwLXBsbS1hMDIuaHRtbA&ntb=1

My Odyssey has arrived at 215k with no oil consumption mostly with the M1-110 and later then M1-110a. It was the easy button for reasonably good filter I could always find.

While we all prefer finer filtration, my experience and those of many others running filters even less efficient than the M1 is that you simply don’t needs super-duper efficient filtration to keep most engines alive and happy.

BTW— the A02 OEM filter is just an orange can Fram in a prettier color. It might have slightly better specs perhaps, the but A02 that came on my Accord that I removed and cut open was not the kind of filter I want in service.

Kinda sad, because the A01 Filtechs/Rocki filters were superbly made and highly regarded.

 

[Hohn]

You could buy a Toyo Roki it should have little restriction due to the air gaps in the media.

“Air gaps” in media aren’t a thing. There are no special provisions for airflow through oil filter media. Now, if you mean the pleats are somewhat farther apart, then this would tend to increase, not decrease, restriction. Because such wide pleat spacing means there’s less media available to flow oil, forcing the existing flow through a smaller surface area, increasing face velocity and thus restriction.

 

[Fair enough]

“Air gaps” in media aren’t a thing. There are no special provisions for airflow through oil filter media. Now, if you mean the pleats are somewhat farther apart, then this would tend to increase, not decrease, restriction. Because such wide pleat spacing means there’s less media available to flow oil, forcing the existing flow through a smaller surface area, increasing face velocity and thus restriction.

No, I meant air gaps, where there are holes in it. Too many holes in it.

 

[Hohn]

No, I meant air gaps, where there are holes in it. Too many holes in it.

The term you are looking for is “pore size.” And yes, any low-efficiency media will often show higher flow values. But it’s possible for lower grade media to be both restrictive AND inefficient.

Just as there is a “fast, good cheap” tradeoff triangle in many things, with filters that tradeoff is generally “flow *(restriction, efficiency, or physical size.” You can have a small, efficient filter but it won’t flow. You can have a high flow, high efficiency filter, but it will be larger. That kind of thing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don’t think there’s much probability of filters going into bypass on account of track use. The thinner viscosity from hotter oil temps is likely to completely offset the higher flow rate. And to be sure, the higher flow rate in track use *also* primarily from the higher temps.

I was going to ask him what kind of track events. Track events like auto-x or drag racing may be situations when the oil isn't really at full operating temperature. For instance, I've see drag races going on during a chilly night, and the cars can sit for an hour before the next run and the engine never gets to full operating temperature. So they fire the car up in the staging lane, roll-up to the gate and do a big burn-out, stage and hammer the engine at WOT near redline down the 1/4 mile. The oil isn't near full operating temperature, and in that case the filter might be seeding some bypassing. On a road coarse the oil will definitely be hot. On an auto-x it might be someplace in between because an auto-x doesn't last long at all, and again the cars sit off before the next run.

Oil pumps are typically on the regulator at any engine speed over 2k rpm or so. Which means that spinning the pump faster (higher RPM) doesn’t increase flow or pressure in terms of pump output.

True on most good old PD pumps with a spring loaded pressure regulator valve. A pump design like that can't perfectly regulate the max pressure while in relief, so the volume output will still slowly climb, which means the pressure also climbs some more while in relief. I've shown some Melling pump test curves that show this, and I saw it on my Z06 when plotting oil pressure vs engine RPM up to redline. Even after the pump is in pressure relief, the output volume and resulting pressure keeps creeping up with more RPM.

Higher RPM does increase oil flow through the bearings primarily by increasing the shear rate and the “leakage” rate of the journal bearings. Wherever oil is feeding a fixed orifice or a non-rotating shaft, however, oil flow rate has no relation to RPM. It’s just pressure pushing through a fixed orifice and doubling RPM has no effect on flow if the oil temp is the same.

True ... but if doubling the engine RPM still makes the pump put out more flow volume as explained above, then there will also be more pressure as a result and more flow through those fixed orifice type flow components.

To add, the self-pumping aspect of all the journal bearings will also reduce the oiling system supply pressure slightly because they all act like miniature "scavenger pumps" on the oil supply feeding them.

All that to say— the filter you use on the street is perfectly sufficient for the track. If you have any concerns, just make sure the filter is fresh. The filter’s restriction doesn’t change a ton with RPM, but it DOES change a lot from brand new to end of life.

True, always good to have a pretty fresh filter on when doing track related events. To add, the oil viscosity at whatever the operating condition is will have an effect on the dP across the filter. Obviously someone shouldn't be redlining the engine right after a cold start-up when the oil is cold and thicker. But my example of the drag racers on a cold night, and letting the engine cool way down between races gets them somewhat into the "cold start-up with higher RPM" use conditions. I can see the filter bypassing in some of those situations.

 

[dedonderosa]

My Odyssey has arrived at 215k with no oil consumption mostly with the M1-110 and later then M1-110a. It was the easy button for reasonably good filter I could always find.

While we all prefer finer filtration, my experience and those of many others running filters even less efficient than the M1 is that you simply don’t needs super-duper efficient filtration to keep most engines alive and happy.

BTW— the A02 OEM filter is just an orange can Fram in a prettier color. It might have slightly better specs perhaps, the but A02 that came on my Accord that I removed and cut open was not the kind of filter I want in service.

Kinda sad, because the A01 Filtechs/Rocki filters were superbly made and highly regarded.

yes A01's were a great filter. wish you could still order them. glad i still have a large stash of them lol.
and tech the A02 is more like the Tough Guard (silver can) equivalent but like ive said before there really isn't anything wrong with running the A02 filter i know plenty of people who have 200k+ mile Hondas only running that filter. yes granted the oem Honda filter prob have about a 66% filtration rate compared to some aftermarkets claiming 99% but Honda has always cared more about flow then filtration. you have to remember the auto manufacturer gives the oil filter company their specs to make a filter to meet them, in reality yes there are better filters out there then the A02 but there is nothing wrong with using it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

... yes granted the oem Honda filter prob have about a 66% filtration rate compared to some aftermarkets claiming 99% but Honda has always cared more about flow then filtration.

Yep, the ISO 4845-12 efficiency info from back in 2011 did show the Honda A02 being 66.5% @20u. But has anyone shown an actual dP vs flow curve for any Honda OEM oil filter? Even if they did flowa bit better, it doesn't really mean they care more about flow over filtration. And it wouldn't really matter because engines use a PD oil pump. There are many filters that can flow very well and still be high efficiency (99% @ 20u).

 

[tolian21]

What about Honda RTA oil filters made in Japan?

 

[Fair enough]

I don’t think there’s much probability of filters going into bypass on account of track use. The thinner viscosity from hotter oil temps is likely to completely offset the higher flow rate. And to be sure, the higher flow rate in track use *also* primarily from the higher temps.

Oil pumps are typically on the regulator at any engine speed over 2k rpm or so. Which means that spinning the pump faster (higher RPM) doesn’t increase flow or pressure in terms of pump output.

Higher RPM does increase oil flow through the bearings primarily by increasing the shear rate and the “leakage” rate of the journal bearings. Wherever oil is feeding a fixed orifice or a non-rotating shaft, however, oil flow rate has no relation to RPM. It’s just pressure pushing through a fixed orifice and doubling RPM has no effect on flow if the oil temp is the same.

All that to say— the filter you use on the street is perfectly sufficient for the track. If you have any concerns, just make sure the filter is fresh. The filter’s restriction doesn’t change a ton with RPM, but it DOES change a lot from brand new to end of life.

One of the advantages of synthetic fibers? If a filter has pores when new, what changes as they age? This is a topic that may have been discussed but I never found an answer.
I know I put an old filter on a car and had to take it off. Even on a hot start there was start up rattle. The only thing I can think of is the filter was in constant bypass. A fresh filter solved the problem immediately.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A filter with a really bad sealing ADBV can drain enough out of the system pretty fast with hot oil.