should i raise up a grade in this climates summers
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Originally Posted By: Pontual
For some cars (like 4 cylinders 2.0 liters or less, small sump) 75+ mph or 3,500+ rpms, for long time (1,5+ hours) is sustaned high speed. I wouldn't do it in a 20 weight oil.
Well if that's true, this is bad news for me. I have a 2012 mazda2. I've put heading toward 80,000 on it doing this kind of driving and about 45,000 on the fusion 2.3 in last 2 years.
So I hope thats wrong about that. I rack up the miles for work. Is this true for newer small engines like these?
For some cars (like 4 cylinders 2.0 liters or less, small sump) 75+ mph or 3,500+ rpms, for long time (1,5+ hours) is sustaned high speed. I wouldn't do it in a 20 weight oil.
Well if that's true, this is bad news for me. I have a 2012 mazda2. I've put heading toward 80,000 on it doing this kind of driving and about 45,000 on the fusion 2.3 in last 2 years.
So I hope thats wrong about that. I rack up the miles for work. Is this true for newer small engines like these?
If you're worried about wear consider using 5w30 with ACEA A5/B5 specification. Ford moved from A1/B1 (SN equivalent) towards using A5/B5 in some of their engines. Still an oil with fuel economy requirements, but better spec overall.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The classic trap: high outside air temperature = high oil temperature.
In fact, that's not usually true.
I had an oil temp gauge on a Volvo Turbo years ago, wonderful bit of insight. Oil temperature rose slowly with engine operation, and stabilized about 10 minutes after coolant temp stabilized.
In the below zero winters of Colorado, it ran about 85C once the engine was fully warmed.
In the humid, hot summers of Virginia Beach, it ran about 85C once the engine was warmed.
However, using the turbo heavily in the mountains in the cold winter, oil temp would rise to 105C. Cold outside, but hot oil due to the heat generated inside the turbo that the oil was picking up...for that car, load mattered far more than air temp. Since your car isn't a turbo, I doubt you'll see much variation in oil temp once it stabilizes...
So a non turbo car will NOT see a temp variation due to load? Why?
The classic trap: high outside air temperature = high oil temperature.
In fact, that's not usually true.
I had an oil temp gauge on a Volvo Turbo years ago, wonderful bit of insight. Oil temperature rose slowly with engine operation, and stabilized about 10 minutes after coolant temp stabilized.
In the below zero winters of Colorado, it ran about 85C once the engine was fully warmed.
In the humid, hot summers of Virginia Beach, it ran about 85C once the engine was warmed.
However, using the turbo heavily in the mountains in the cold winter, oil temp would rise to 105C. Cold outside, but hot oil due to the heat generated inside the turbo that the oil was picking up...for that car, load mattered far more than air temp. Since your car isn't a turbo, I doubt you'll see much variation in oil temp once it stabilizes...
So a non turbo car will NOT see a temp variation due to load? Why?
Originally Posted By: WANG
Originally Posted By: Pontual
For some cars (like 4 cylinders 2.0 liters or less, small sump) 75+ mph or 3,500+ rpms, for long time (1,5+ hours) is sustaned high speed. I wouldn't do it in a 20 weight oil.
The question in that case is: what are the oil temperatures at "sustained high speed?"
Most liquid cooled cars and bikes today have oil to liquid head exchangers that are going to control the lube oil temps to a fairly small operating range. Even if the engines are buzzing along at fairly high rpm, they still aren't generating that much horsepower/not under significant load and therefore not really creating that much heat. This is one of the reasons why there are active grill shutters on some late model cars and trucks.
I don't follow the CAFE conspiracy theory that our engines are being short changed on lube oil protection for the sake of CAFE. Modern engines will generally last HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of miles with only modest maintenance using this evil low vis oil. This is a significant service life. While there are some recommendations for higher vis in some countries compared to others, you will also find that many oil recommendations are the same from market to market.
Time to get in the vanguard, run 10 all year 'round and report.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
For some cars (like 4 cylinders 2.0 liters or less, small sump) 75+ mph or 3,500+ rpms, for long time (1,5+ hours) is sustaned high speed. I wouldn't do it in a 20 weight oil.
The question in that case is: what are the oil temperatures at "sustained high speed?"
Most liquid cooled cars and bikes today have oil to liquid head exchangers that are going to control the lube oil temps to a fairly small operating range. Even if the engines are buzzing along at fairly high rpm, they still aren't generating that much horsepower/not under significant load and therefore not really creating that much heat. This is one of the reasons why there are active grill shutters on some late model cars and trucks.
I don't follow the CAFE conspiracy theory that our engines are being short changed on lube oil protection for the sake of CAFE. Modern engines will generally last HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of miles with only modest maintenance using this evil low vis oil. This is a significant service life. While there are some recommendations for higher vis in some countries compared to others, you will also find that many oil recommendations are the same from market to market.
Time to get in the vanguard, run 10 all year 'round and report.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Look around at a few global "lube matches" and see what they all recommend for your vehicles and compare them. Go on Shell's US and Australia's websites,as well as Mobil's and Castrol's and compare all the recommendations as per your climate.
You can also look in an FSM (factory service manual) for your cars as well. If you don't have one,they can usually be found online.
+1 Some "factory recomendations" are based of CAFE goals as well as (or in spite of) "long life". They don't want to see warranty claims due to lube failures... but they aren't THAT interested in their products going 250K either.
Are you suggesting that engines that call for a 20 wt. oil may not make it to 250K because of the oil alone?
Did I say that? I SAID manufacturers focus on warranty claims and NOT whether or not the vehicle will go 250K unless they warranty for that instance, and that's all I said. Practice your Sophistry elsewhere.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Look around at a few global "lube matches" and see what they all recommend for your vehicles and compare them. Go on Shell's US and Australia's websites,as well as Mobil's and Castrol's and compare all the recommendations as per your climate.
You can also look in an FSM (factory service manual) for your cars as well. If you don't have one,they can usually be found online.
+1 Some "factory recomendations" are based of CAFE goals as well as (or in spite of) "long life". They don't want to see warranty claims due to lube failures... but they aren't THAT interested in their products going 250K either.
Are you suggesting that engines that call for a 20 wt. oil may not make it to 250K because of the oil alone?
Did I say that? I SAID manufacturers focus on warranty claims and NOT whether or not the vehicle will go 250K unless they warranty for that instance, and that's all I said. Practice your Sophistry elsewhere.
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
The classic trap: high outside air temperature = high oil temperature.
In fact, that's not usually true.
I had an oil temp gauge on a Volvo Turbo years ago, wonderful bit of insight. Oil temperature rose slowly with engine operation, and stabilized about 10 minutes after coolant temp stabilized.
In the below zero winters of Colorado, it ran about 85C once the engine was fully warmed.
In the humid, hot summers of Virginia Beach, it ran about 85C once the engine was warmed.
However, using the turbo heavily in the mountains in the cold winter, oil temp would rise to 105C. Cold outside, but hot oil due to the heat generated inside the turbo that the oil was picking up...for that car, load mattered far more than air temp. Since your car isn't a turbo, I doubt you'll see much variation in oil temp once it stabilizes...
Something I'll add to that,my temp gauge reads slightly cooler on the hottest summer days. Guessing my car must have a really good/strong cooling system. So with my car,hotter ambient outside temps make my car run slightly cooler via the temp gauge.
The classic trap: high outside air temperature = high oil temperature.
In fact, that's not usually true.
I had an oil temp gauge on a Volvo Turbo years ago, wonderful bit of insight. Oil temperature rose slowly with engine operation, and stabilized about 10 minutes after coolant temp stabilized.
In the below zero winters of Colorado, it ran about 85C once the engine was fully warmed.
In the humid, hot summers of Virginia Beach, it ran about 85C once the engine was warmed.
However, using the turbo heavily in the mountains in the cold winter, oil temp would rise to 105C. Cold outside, but hot oil due to the heat generated inside the turbo that the oil was picking up...for that car, load mattered far more than air temp. Since your car isn't a turbo, I doubt you'll see much variation in oil temp once it stabilizes...
Something I'll add to that,my temp gauge reads slightly cooler on the hottest summer days. Guessing my car must have a really good/strong cooling system. So with my car,hotter ambient outside temps make my car run slightly cooler via the temp gauge.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
If you're worried about wear consider using 5w30 with ACEA A5/B5 specification. Ford moved from A1/B1 (SN equivalent) towards using A5/B5 in some of their engines. Still an oil with fuel economy requirements, but better spec overall.
Well I know what 5w30 is.i dunno what aces a5/b5 is. Is that important to know or could I just find a thin 30wght like pu?
If you're worried about wear consider using 5w30 with ACEA A5/B5 specification. Ford moved from A1/B1 (SN equivalent) towards using A5/B5 in some of their engines. Still an oil with fuel economy requirements, but better spec overall.
Well I know what 5w30 is.i dunno what aces a5/b5 is. Is that important to know or could I just find a thin 30wght like pu?
Almost every car I have ever owned has had some sort of "chart" and recommendation similar to the above. In summery, they have all said the same sort of thing: For tougher loads at higher ambient temps, run heavier oil, for colder temps, run low "W" ratings.
Unfortunately, you may have to look for an "equivalent" vehicle sold in a foreign market to actually get to see the *actual* recommendation. Here in the states, most cars are sold with a simplified lubrication recommendation, which is often just the thinnest cheapest stuff that is functionally acceptable.
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You could use a good 10W30 in your entire fleet ronp year round and be good to go.
Originally Posted By: mdocod
Almost every car I have ever owned has had some sort of "chart" and recommendation similar to the above. In summery, they have all said the same sort of thing: For tougher loads at higher ambient temps, run heavier oil, for colder temps, run low "W" ratings.
Unfortunately, you may have to look for an "equivalent" vehicle sold in a foreign market to actually get to see the *actual* recommendation. Here in the states, most cars are sold with a simplified lubrication recommendation, which is often just the thinnest cheapest stuff that is functionally acceptable.
Ok ill look around for 1.
Almost every car I have ever owned has had some sort of "chart" and recommendation similar to the above. In summery, they have all said the same sort of thing: For tougher loads at higher ambient temps, run heavier oil, for colder temps, run low "W" ratings.
Unfortunately, you may have to look for an "equivalent" vehicle sold in a foreign market to actually get to see the *actual* recommendation. Here in the states, most cars are sold with a simplified lubrication recommendation, which is often just the thinnest cheapest stuff that is functionally acceptable.
Ok ill look around for 1.
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BITOG is split down the middle on this topic - half of us are in the 'use what the manufacturer recommended', 'they test your engine in all applicable driving conditions', 'your engine is water-cooled and the oil temperature is tied to the coolant temperature', and '10W-30 is the same as 5W-30 at operating temperature' crowd. The other half of us are in the 'yeah but in the US, manufacturer's recommendations are tied to CAFE standards and maintenance simplicity', 'yeah but for how many miles to they test my engine in the applicable driving conditions - I want my engine to last longer than the manufacturer's warranty', 'yeah but oil is in direct contact with frictional parts of the engine and in direct contact with pistons, so localized oil temperatures will far exceed bulk oil temperatures and the net effect of variances in under-hood temperatures and intake air temperatures cannot be ignored', and the 'yeah but you're ignoring the effect of viscosity breakdown and some 10W-30s are likely to resist viscosity breakdown better than a comparable 5W-30, and why wouldn't you want that benefit especially if you don't need the benefit of low temperature pumpability of the 5W-30 i.e. in the summertime' crowd.
Pick a side.
I'm of the opinion that selection of lubricant (not just weight - but overall viscosity characteristics) on a seasonal basis may benefit some people, for some vehicles, sometimes.
Pick a side.
I'm of the opinion that selection of lubricant (not just weight - but overall viscosity characteristics) on a seasonal basis may benefit some people, for some vehicles, sometimes.
I agree with previous poster. There is a flaw in a logic to believe that car manufacturers recommend what is absolute best for their vehicles. Like in every business there's always compromises involved. One of those is CAFE for NA market. Yes, engines are tested with 0w20 oils, and no they will not fall apart, but it's foolish to think that such an oil will work absolutely the best. It will work adequately. Subaru for instance, and this is well recorded, do not necessarily perform great with 0w20 oils. Toyota and Honda don't seem to care much, but high oil consumption is a real problem with them, specifically pronounced when low viscosity oil is used. I know I wouldn't use 20 grade oil in a car of mine, even when specified for.
Originally Posted By: WANG
I don't follow the CAFE conspiracy theory that our engines are being short changed on lube oil protection for the sake of CAFE. ... This is a significant service life.
The OP should be aware some manufactures themselves advise that the CAFE thin oils "provide ADEQUATE protection". Yeah, I guess "ADEQUATE protection" is good enough for "significant" service life.
Personally, I want "maximum" protection, or at least as close to it I can get, practically speaking. In TX, there is little advantage to real thin oils. 10-30 and/or 5-30 works great here.
I don't follow the CAFE conspiracy theory that our engines are being short changed on lube oil protection for the sake of CAFE. ... This is a significant service life.
The OP should be aware some manufactures themselves advise that the CAFE thin oils "provide ADEQUATE protection". Yeah, I guess "ADEQUATE protection" is good enough for "significant" service life.
Personally, I want "maximum" protection, or at least as close to it I can get, practically speaking. In TX, there is little advantage to real thin oils. 10-30 and/or 5-30 works great here.
I think I'm starting to understand why some dudes blend their oils. It is confusing lol. I think I need a happy medium between the to weights. I think now I'm leaning towards a light 30 weight. I really don't wanna do synthetics though. Are there any light 30 weight dinos.
No need at all to blend. Not worth it. PYB 5-30 would be perfect for you.
wemay
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You don't have to go up a grade but if you wan't to, go ahead. Either viscosity will protect and neither (IMO) will gain any perceivable gains in MPG.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Anh? liquid head exchangers ... what? Most cars don't have it. Look at average old subaru service manual ... easily found online 1996-2004.
And they have oil coolers and heat exchangers. 5w30 "not recommended for sustained high speed driving"
I don't count something last manufactured 11 years ago as "today's cars". And three out of four liquid cooled conveyances in my driveway have these oil to liquid heat exchangers.
My paramount recommendation to anyone is to follow the owner's manual, and as I recall, the OP's vehicles were not 15 year old Subarus. Point of fact, it seems that he was looking for validation to deviate from the owner's manual. You're taking things out of context.
Anh? liquid head exchangers ... what? Most cars don't have it. Look at average old subaru service manual ... easily found online 1996-2004.
And they have oil coolers and heat exchangers. 5w30 "not recommended for sustained high speed driving"
I don't count something last manufactured 11 years ago as "today's cars". And three out of four liquid cooled conveyances in my driveway have these oil to liquid heat exchangers.
My paramount recommendation to anyone is to follow the owner's manual, and as I recall, the OP's vehicles were not 15 year old Subarus. Point of fact, it seems that he was looking for validation to deviate from the owner's manual. You're taking things out of context.
I would not run a 20 weight in Texas summers. How's that for a nice simple reply?
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