Shotgun for home protection

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Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Just wondering how many of you here own a shotgun for home protection? And if your house ever gets invaded and you can grab a gun would you choose a shotgun


I keep a Glock 19X in a pistol safe access box, an AR15 loaded with 30 rounds next to the bed, and a Benelli M2 Tactical 12 gauge in the closet above the door. My wife has a Smith & Wesson 4" steel frame .38 special revolver on her side of the bed in a quick access pistol safe.

For me, with my training and experience, I grab the AR15 if I KNOW a home invasion is afoot. If I hear a noise, but don't think its really a threat, thinking its probably a raccoon that knocked over a trash can or such, then I grab the pistol. But if I KNOW its a threat (glass breaking, voices heard), there is no way I grab the pistol first.

Yes the shotgun is a great home defense weapon.

My only real concern with pump shotguns is that a lot of people are not all that well educated and trained on them. Pump shotguns are actually the hardest gun to learn and master. Sure, I can put a pump shotgun in Sally Homeowners hand, and give her 15 minutes of instruction and she will probably be fine, but she wont know how to clear a jam. She wont know how to mortar it to unstick a jammed shell. She wont know how to do a slug changeover. She is likely to short stroke it and cause a jam. And she is not likely to keep the gun loaded effectively in a combat environment (shoot 2 rounds, load 2 rounds, from behind cover, to always have a fully loaded gun in your hands)

The quality semi-auto shotgun is flat out superior when you take into account the above. Most semi-auto shotguns are WAY more reliable in the hands of novices. And in the hands of experts as well.

Home defense is a long winded subject. Many schools of thought. Most people with combat experience would HIGHLY recommend a self loading semi-auto rifle in caliber .223. Others recommend a pistol. And others recommend a shotgun. Honestly, just having quick access to any gun is likely to be enough in most cases.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
The real world issue with a shot gun as a self defense weapon in your house is that it's much easier for the perpetrator to grab and take possession of vs a handgun.


How are they going to do that if you are properly barricaded behind a locked bedroom door, with your gun pointed at the door, and the bad guy has to come through that same door, to get to you? That's proper home defense.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
I would use a pistol. A pistol can be kept on your body.


Its less accurate. Less powerful. Not as effective. Yes it could work, and is likely to work in the real world, if you know what you are doing, but a shotgun is SUPERIOR to a hand gun for home defense.
 
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
...where do you all live that you feel you NEED this?


Here is one case, but there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of cases, just like it, all across America, in the safest neighborhoods. Ever seen a TV interview, and the person always says, "This is such a nice neighborhood. That kind of stuff never happens here." Well guess what? They ALWAYS say that. Every. Single. Time. No one ever thinks it will happen to them. But yet, the news and statistics, tells us otherwise. Bad things happen to good people. Yes, even in the good neighborhoods.

Richest state in the country. In a rich neighborhood, with million dollar house. Totally safe place to be. Until it wasn't.

https://nypost.com/2015/09/06/dr-william-petit-rebuilds-life-after-losing-family-in-home-invasion/

Do you think the doctor in the above case now sleep with a gun next to his bed? I'd bet $1000 that he does. He thought his wealth, income, and beautifully manicured lawns in his uber-safe neighborhood was enough to keep his family safe. It wasn't. He NEEDED a gun. And the will the use it. He didn't have one. This is just one case. They are literally tens of thousands of less known cases just like this, all over the country.

And remember, the police are only minutes away when you have seconds to respond (or live). And in the doctors case above, the police were actually outside his house while his wife and kids were raped and murdered and did nothing. They responded afterwards and took pictures of their dead bodies. That's what the police do. They cannot be there in time to help you 97% of the time. I should know, I was a police officer. And I personally had the daunting task of apologizing to crime victims that I wasn't there for them in their time of need, even though I wished I could have been. A simple reminder to them that if they had a gun, and the training to use it, they likely would not have been a crime victim, and you can see the light bulb go off, and the questions start, and you just know that they are going to be a gun owner by this time next week. An un-armed person is just a person that has yet to be victimized (and thus educated).

And one last point. People that think they don't need a gun, are right. They don't need a gun. Until they do. You don't need a seat belt in your car, until you do. People are naive. They don't understand the threats a society is capable of. And they don't realize how fragile civilization is. A simple hurricane in Orleans proves that to us. As do the 1991 LA riots.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

My one gun nut friend though says our gun storage laws could be interpreted as your house being locked up when you are away as the "safe". And when you are home you have "care and control" of the firearms so they could be stored with no trigger locks. I don't know if this theory has been tested in court yet in Ontario.


Even were such an interpretation of safe storage applicable...cracking a beer immediately opens you up to issues.
 
I keep a couple of "home defense" 12G shotguns.

The VEPR12 is a Russian Kalashnikov design. It's semi-auto and fed from detachable magazines with capacities of 5, 8, or 10 rounds. It's very reliable with good shells.




The Franchi SPAS12 is an Italian made shotgun with a unique action that you can switch from semi-auto to pump simply by pushing a button and sliding the foregrip. The hook is designed to wrap around your forearm for support such that you can shoot it one handed in semi-auto mode. I wouldn't recommend it, though!
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No it's not! Much rather use a semi-auto. Nothing to pump and just keep squeezing the trigger, using 00 Buckshot.
Signed
My wife

Then a few days later, she watches me repair up-to 8, 16 and maybe even 24 holes in my drywall.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
All located and concealed in various rooms of the house. All can be gotten to in total darkness in seconds if necessary.













Nice!!!
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Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
I keep a couple of "home defense" 12G shotguns.

The VEPR12 is a Russian Kalashnikov design. It's semi-auto and fed from detachable magazines with capacities of 5, 8, or 10 rounds. It's very reliable with good shells.




The Franchi SPAS12 is an Italian made shotgun with a unique action that you can switch from semi-auto to pump simply by pushing a button and sliding the foregrip. The hook is designed to wrap around your forearm for support such that you can shoot it one handed in semi-auto mode. I wouldn't recommend it, though!
smile.gif





That VEPR12 is gorgeous. Unfortunately it is prohibited in Canada, as is anything based on the AK
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Well at least you can still get cheap SVT40's and SKS45s from Russia. Those have been non-importable for many years in the US, now, and the prices reflect the limited supply.
 
Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
Well at least you can still get cheap SVT40's and SKS45s from Russia. Those have been non-importable for many years in the US, now, and the prices reflect the limited supply.


Yes, the SKS is prolific, and is a common gun to get "Bubba'd"
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I was talking to a guy at a BBQ one day . He was telling us that he was away from home a lot and wanted something for his wife for protection . He said that he was thinking about a 12 gauge pump with a pistol grip . I asked him if his wife was very familiar with firearms and if she had any experience with shotguns . Nope , no experience . I told him that he was out of his mind for considering a 12 gauge , especially one with a pistol grip . He just shrugged and changed the subject .
 
Originally Posted by michaelluscher
...where do you all live that you feel you NEED this?


A very nice area, that is (incorrectly) perceived as an easy target by scumbags.

Suffice to say we have firearms ready to go (and lots of practice to use them proficiently) if necessary.
 
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by michaelluscher
...where do you all live that you feel you NEED this?
Obviously not in your ivory tower.

LOL
 
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I was talking to a guy at a BBQ one day . He was telling us that he was away from home a lot and wanted something for his wife for protection . He said that he was thinking about a 12 gauge pump with a pistol grip . I asked him if his wife was very familiar with firearms and if she had any experience with shotguns . Nope , no experience . I told him that he was out of his mind for considering a 12 gauge , especially one with a pistol grip . He just shrugged and changed the subject .
Wife to Dan. "Look Dan, no teeth."
 
Originally Posted by Marco620
Can you use self defense in Canada? My take was they were to be dispatched with similar force.


So there are different licenses here but I will explain the one that allows me to own a Shot-gun/Rifle (Long guns). It's called a Possession & Acquisition License (PAL), As I only have this type of license and haven't taken the hunting course on-top of that I can only use my gun for sport shooting, hobby-collecting purposes, or for farm/rural property type use like pest control.

Our laws (Governed by the Federal government and apply to all provinces/territories) are such that I can't discharge any gun within city limits or I'm automatically charged unless my life is in jepoardy, I also can't use the gun for self defense unless my life is being threatened with equal or greater force. So the other guy would have to have a gun, be pointing it at me and ready to pull the trigger. Then I can shoot. I would be immediately charged with a court date to explain my actions. In the meantime my license is now temporarily suspended and my guns temporarily confiscated. You can't even point a gun at someone loaded or not just to scare someone away.

There have been incidents up here where this has happened and almost always the charge is dropped against the firearms owner because it was shown to be necessary to safeguard his/her life as they were being threatened.

Now if I shot someone with a knife that would depend on the judge and a good lawyer to get you off sort of thing because it's not equal or greater force. Cameras on the property help with that evidence and I have them for this and other reasons.

I was told in my gun safety course that is mandatory to get a firearms license, that pretty much as long as you don't shoot someone with a gun in the back (a.k.a. they are leaving or running away) then pretty much you are in the clear (after the initial charge etc.) but there is a lot of grey area and a judge that wants to give you a hard time can.

Also we can't shoot somebody for just being on the property or stealing your property, your life has to be absolutely threatened with equal or greater force.

The second type of license we have is a Restricted Firearms License which lets you have a hand-gun for sport purposes only and it's heavily restricted with lots of regulations on how you can use it, that you must be registered with a gun club at all times and must only transport the Firearm to/from the gun club with a letter from the gun-club on you while transport is taking place. You are NOT allowed to stop anywhere in between these two locations with the gun in the vehicle. Eg: To get a coffee or to pee or whatever. If you do they can revoke your license and confiscate your guns.

On-top of the safety course I mentioned above which you need for either license, you must undergo a Federal Police background check and wait a period of time for them to grant you your license. At anytime they may revoke your license and will automatically revoke your license if you have criminal charges laid against you for any reason.

Under no circumstances is there open carry or concealed carry unless you are law enforcement, authorized security or customs officer sort of thing.

All guns must always be disabled with a lock, kept unloaded and ammunition must be stored separately from the firearm preferably in it's own locked container when not in use. So good luck trying to undo the locks and load the firearm when your life is being threatened.
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We are also responsible for our guns at all times so if someone gets a hold of it and we haven't reported it stolen any action taken with that gun we can be held responsible for so it's why I have my guns disabled with locks in a gun safe. Not even my spouse knows the codes. (no gun license), and I also keep my ammunition locked in a separate locking compartment in the safe with a different code.

Which reminds me it's time for maintenance on my guns and I gotta check the ammunition for signs of corrosion.
 
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