4L80E rebuild for 1100hp questions

primetime

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Ok, so even with the output shaft bearing installed correctly, the center support is still sitting up what looks to be .020” too high, resulting in the snap ring not seating correctly. I verified that the output shaft is making contact with the bearing that rests on the no walk bushing. I can see it functioning correctly through the access hole The thinner snap ring that rests under the center support is installed correctly, in the proper notches and sits flush. . The roller clutch looks fine, nothing missing. Here pics of everything. Sun shaft left off to better show position of bearing, but it is installed in the correct orientation when testing. What is causing the center support to sit just high enough to make the snap ring not go in correctly? When installing the bearing that goes in between the sun gear and the center support, I'm using trans gel on the portion of the bearing that goes into the center support. Then the other two parts of the bearing rest on the sun gear as shown. Trans fluid is used on all the bearings so that they are silky smooth. The bushings in the sun gear shaft, front planet, output shaft, and center support all look to be installed correctly an are not sticking out past the edges of the component they are installed into. I'm not sure why the new bushings look so bad when plenty of trans gel and fluid was used during the install on where they make contact.

The beveled snap ring goes into the case as it should when installed by itself. The reverse band has been left out during all this testing.
I plan to remove the no walk bushing an re-apply the loctite for a re-install since I backed it out a little bit earlier, but right now I need to solve this issue of why the snap ring won't seat correctly. Only then can I proceed with utilizing the pocket in the front planet an putting the bearing/shims back in to verify carrier to center support float, followed by adjusting the rear end play.

Check out page 49 figure 62 in the ATSG manual. Why don't they show the .042" thick washer (#252) that goes in-between the needle bearing race (#249) and the rear ring gear? Mine is in there ofcourse, but I was surprised to not see it in the diagram.

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primetime

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With the thin snap ring (.042”) removed from where the bottom of the center support makes contact with, the beveled snap ring fits properly. So something in the stack is causing it to be a about .040” too high. When the thin snap ring is installed it is seated all the way down against the case.
 
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Have you swapped ANY hard parts besides the Reaction Carrier?

So the Center Support fits without the Anti-Fretting Ring but doesn't fit with it??

Read page 6 of this article.....HERE Can't tell from the pics if that's the correct 3rd style Center Support??
 

primetime

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I don’t know why i didn’t try this before..... with only these in the case:

thin fret snap ring
center support
beveled snap ring

it looks like it is seating correctly.

It won’t seat correctly even with the entire front planet removed from the stack. The front planet wasn’t changed out, only machined for a pocket.

I’ll check out the article.

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primetime

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So with the snap ring seated correctly and the sonnax no walk bushing installed backwards again and all the way in the case here's where I'm at:

Checking rear end play in the case:

Stacked from output shaft to center sup with no front planet installed with 0.010" shim under the rollerized output bearing = .025" end play
Stacked from output shaft to center sup with no front planet installed with 0.020" shim under the rollerized output bearing = .015" end play
Stacked from output shaft to center sup with no front planet installed with 0.030" shim under the rollerized output bearing = .005" end play

Left the .030" shim in there around the sonnax no walk bushing

Went to the bench and tested lifting up on the front planet while pressing down on the center support with various shims installed in the pocket and the plastic 2 tang washer removed:

Stack from output shaft to center sup with front plant in and a .030" shim in the machined front planet pocket w/ bearing = no play
Stack from output shaft to center sup with front plan in and a .025" shim in the machined front planet pocket w/ bearing = very slight play
Stack from output shaft to center sup with front plan in and a .020" shim in the machined front planet pocket w/ bearing = felt acceptable

Left the .020 shim in the pocket with the bearing installed above it.

Took the entire assembly from the bench with that .020 shim in the pocket stacked from output shaft to center support with front planet and all and put it back into the case containing the .030" shim in the output around the sonnax no walk bushing. Rear end play measured .006"

Beveled snap ring was secured and fit well for all the rear end play tests.
Bearing around the sonnax no walk bushing was working as intended, as seen through the access hole ensuring that the black part of the bearing didn't move and the top half of the bearing moved when rotating the output shaft.

So I'm assuming I have less that .010" end play from the center support to the front planet which should be good? If I put the .015" shim in the pocket would that be better? They both feel like they have wayyyy less endplay than a stock setup. On to checking the front endplay tomorrow.
 

primetime

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.010" is great when using a bearing between the Carriers!

So, What was the issue?

The bearing in the output shaft was flipped as you correctly guessed, and upon checking the beveled snap ring after that I incorrectly assumed that the snap ring was supposed to get closer to the flat than what it was for correct fit. So the flipped bearing was the only issue. The snap ring distance between the ends of the ring itself doubled once the bearing was installed correctly.
 

primetime

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LOL can any portion of this build go smoothly? First, the case saver I had didn't fit the HD snap ring, so I think it was for a TH400 or machined incorrectly. I filed it down so that the HD snap ring could at least be installed. This case saver also has a 2nd groove for the beveled ring. No intermediate band being ran. Looking like .050" clearance on the intermediate stack. I got .040 on one side and was able to jam a second set of feeler gauges 180 from it that was .060 but I had to force it. This is everything wet. .050 should be good when using the 4L80E wave with the legs that rides on top of the intermediate piston.

That center support to case bolt calls for 32 ft lbs torque spec. Seems a bit much. Do you go that high?

When testing the intermediate clutch pack by blowing air through the installed center support bolt hole, the clutches move as they should but I hear a hissing sound, kind of like a leak. Is that normal? I can make a vid. Just want to make sure that those seals in the center support piston that I replaced are good.

 
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There's a bleed orifice on the back side of the support to purge air from under the Intermediate piston, That's likely what you're hearing.

.050" will be okay on the Intermediate.

32 ft lbs is the correct torque for the Center Support bolt.
 

primetime

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Got it all buttoned up to the pump! Front end play is good! Getting there!

Dumb question but do I have to get a shift lever shaft that is short to work with my aftermarket B&M pro ratchet or will the long shaft that is in there be fine?
 

primetime

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Ok, I'll check it out and give B&M tech a call also. Thanks! Hoping I don't have to change it since I snapped the 8678347 pin off while trying to carefully remove it. Nothing to grab onto. Should be a fun time if I have to remove it.

I measured rear servo pin travel using this homemade tool pictured below that I saw you made in another thread lol. So no o-ring on the piston when checking servo travel, and just used the pin, retaining clip, piston, and spring. Put the assembly in the case an then put the cover tool over it on top of the gasket. Torque the 4 bolts down to 18 ft lbs (2 bolts can't be used due to the cover being cut). I watched as the 3/8-16 bolt (verified the bolt pitch) routed through the top of the servo cover tool made contact with the servo pin and as soon as it was touching the top of the servo pin, I marked the top of the bolt and it's location relative to the nut and counted how many times the bolt rotated while using a torque wrench set to 50 inch lbs. Since the pitch was 16 and the bolt only rotated 90 degrees before the torque wrench clicked, it appears as if the servo travel is only .0156"

0.25 of a turn /16 = .0156" I know the spec is .050" - .200" with 0.100" as a possible target. What do you set yours to? I checked it using this method 3 times but it just seems odd that this servo pin could be that far off with a new band? So I need to grind off .085" or so? Is .0156" of travel typical with a new band? I know they make 14 or so different sizes for this servo pin lol. I didn't try the dial indicator on top of the bolt method because I didn't know when to stop tightening the bolt. When do you stop? Not sure if I did it correctly.

Also I have several left over parts from the TransTech overhaul kit. Some of the sealing rings I was able to identify, others I was not. Perhaps they are for a different year core? I know one of the rings still needs to go on the input shaft that I haven't installed, but are you able to tell what B, C, E, F, G, J, K, L, M and Q are?

A. 3rd and 4th clutch accumulator seals. Not used because of Jakes D3 kit
B. ?? Output shaft sleeve o-ring and o-ring for output shaft perhaps? – Not used because 2005 core didn’t have these
C. ?
D. Speed sensor O-rings - Not used, new sensors have o-rings on them
E. ?
F. ?
G. ?
H. Stator to case o-rings on the bolts. Not used because sfi bellhousing adapter uses longer bolts with o-rings
I. Clips for PWM in valve body only one needed, but not used, Jakes D3 had new one on it.
J. ?
K. ?
L. ?
M. ?
N. Force motor feed filter. Not used, Jakes D3 had a new one in it.
O. Shift solenoid feed filter. Not used, Jakes D3 had a new one in it.
P. Center support O-rings… not used, used the other style.
Q. ?? Direct clutch center o-ring? – not used on super drum direct. Instructions say to leave off.
R. Center support O-ring, 2nd from top. Leave off per Jakes D3 instructions
S. Accumulator O-rings. Leave off per Jakes D3 instructions

There’s an O ring seal on the ¾ shift valve that was never removed, not sure which one in the picture that is.

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Left over parts 1.jpg


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C, Drain Plug Seal
E, Commercial/Merchandised HD unit
F, Turbine Shaft O-ring
G,K,M......Solenoid, Captured Checkball Sleeves, & Filters.
J, Pressure Switch Manifold.
L, Cooler Line Fitting rebuild O-rings.
I, Cooler Line Fitting Retainers.
 

primetime

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Excellent! All of those won’t be needed other than the turbine shaft O-ring as I have all new electronics.

One thing that slipped my mind is the new 34127EA plate that rests against the forward piston. Does it have to be a certain orientation or does it not matter which side rests against that molded piston?
 

primetime

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Disregard, I was thinking of 34127D which is something else that I didn't use. Managed to get the reverse servo pin dialed in at .110" float. At .110" travel, its's hard to move the output shaft. Starts getting hard to move at .70 - .80 which is what Jake recommends for faster leave on the trans brake. Started at .200" travel so I welded to make it longer.

 

primetime

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It's all buttoned up! Thanks again for all your help Cline. Couldn't have done this without you. Next time I'm in DFW I'll let you know. I used to travel there 6 times a year before the pandemic hit.
 

primetime

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So I decided to get a premade harness since it was so cheap and I didn't want to wait until the actual time of install and have to start repining the harness already on the car. Now is it just me or is this 4L60E to 4L80E wiring harness adapter part 53NBHC from akaso_tech on ebay all jacked up? I traced the wires and the first image below is what I came up with. So the wire from plug #1 for example going into pin L connects to pin V on plug 2. The only wires that appear to be correct are the ones for the transbrake that drilled in myself lol. I have to take this whole thing apart and re-pin it. When you connect the 2 ends together the wires don't even mate up correctly. I mean how hard is it for them to just remove the wires in the S and T locations that are getting plugged into the factory hardness on plug #2 and ensure that location U on the #2 plug connects to location S on the #1 plug.


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