4L80E rebuild for 1100hp questions

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You can use any of the factory Selective's without worry of the Overrun Sealing rings coming out of the drum!

What Forward Hub are you using? The Sonnax Hub is Plus .025" & helps a lot with Front endplay. Yet another reason I machine my own stuff.

At the end of the day......019" or 020" endplay will work.
 

primetime

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I have the 34322-02K forward hub which is the sonnax and the bearing that comes with it. Nothing else between the forward hub and direct drum other than that bearing.

I guess I'll try the .123 selective pump shim and the OE .063 forward hub to forward drum washer and hope for the best.
 

primetime

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Check out the last page of this:


I was confused with the statement "Do not shim a forward drum from the pump support washer. Adding shim material here pushes the sealing rings into a very minimal surface contact on the drums" within that instruction manual.

Everything used to test the rear end play plus the following is in the case for the front endplay check:

Direct drum and sprag
bearing replaceing #235
forward hub
#232 which is .063" washer
Forward drum
#217 bearing
OD planet
captured bearing in the OD planet
OD drum
input shaft and input shaft snap ring
#211 shim which is .091"
pump gasket
stator

Here's a vid of the front endplay. This is no preloading. Just pulling up. The stator was lifting up slightly in the beginning The pump bolts seem like they are too long since the pump body isn't installed and not sure if I should use a 1" or so nylon washer around 2 bolts that will make contact with the face of the pump?

My dial is on top of a rod that has been placed inside the shaft. The rod has a hole drilled in it so that the dial needle can rest on it. May try another tip and just remove the rod but that shouldn't change anything.

.073"

 
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The pump needs to be torqued to 18 ft lbs, I install the whole pump minus the square cut O-ring, But this at most might give you a couple thousands in gasket compression.

The forward drum being too far down is a TH400 issue, Not that you couldn't shim a 4L80E too far, But.....Not with factory selectives.

Your stack sounds correct.
 

primetime

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Well with both pump halves assembled,and using a .091 pump shim, .063 forward drum to forward hub washer, and a .010 shim (44255) under the forward drum bearing I get:

.008 rear endplay
.015 front endplay (taking the snap ring float into account)
.005 center support to reaction carrier float
.000 forward hub to direct drum float due to sonnax billed rollerized hub

All set!

The input shaft doesn’t spin when moving the main shaft but the main shaft spins when moving the input shaft. I’m assuming this is normal lol.

So once I have it all assembled, if I check rear endplay again it should say .008” or can that only be checked when stacking to just the center support like I originally did?
 

primetime

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Hit another snag... the center support isn't going UNDER where the beveled snap ring (bevel side up) goes. I tried installing the snap ring but it won't seat all the way because the center support is sitting up to high. I rotated the shaft left and right but that's the lowest it will go. Also the shaft makes a different noise when rotating one way vs the other that I didn't hear before when I had done the end play test. I'm assuming it's the sprag making that noise? Sprag goes in legs down, right? Here's some pics. As you can see, I can get a pic in between the small snap ring and the center support tab and I believe it's supposed to rest flush on that snap ring. The other part of the bearing that you don't see in the pic that is resting on the sun gear is inside the bottom of the center support in the correct orientation. I'm not sure why the center support isn't seating correctly. The 3 holes appear to line up as seen in the pic, but perhaps they need to be a hair lower. When I was testing it before for rear end play and front end play, the beveled snap ring went right in (or at least I think it did... hopefully it did otherwise that throws off the endplay readings doesn't it......) Nothing has changed with the bearings, washers, or their orientation from when I was testing the endplay the other day.

IMG_3456.JPG

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IMG_3462.JPG
IMG_3463.JPG


IMG_3465 - Copy.JPG
IMG_3465.JPG
IMG_3466.JPG
IMG_3467.JPG
 
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Totally off-topic, but was I the only one that was slowly scrolling down through the pictures and stopped to think 'why did he heat that up to glowing red?'
 

primetime

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Previously we saw a .035” shim gave no end play from reaction carrier to center support, but a .030” shim did give endplay. So there was some “range of negative endplay” there that was not measurable with a dial when the .030 shim was used. If the total rear end play measurement was taken with that snap ring not fully installed, that number is a wash. lol time to get my dial indicator back out.

I’ll replace the .030” shim with a .020” shim and hopefully that will enable the snap ring to seat fully while still being within range of proper reaction carrier to center support endplay. Hopefully my total rear end play new measurement will be within spec also.

Other option is to reduce the shim at the output by .010”
 

primetime

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So I was able to feel how much play a stock configuration has using the .063 washer on the bottom of the center support and the 2 tang plastic washer on the rear planet. When setting it up with the bearing in the pocket, the shims under that bearing, and the removal of the 2 tang plastic washer, but leaving the .063 washer on the bottom of the center support obviously intact, Should I setup the center support to reaction carrier end play so that it feels like similar to stock?

Last time I checked center support to reaction carrier end play without fully assembling the piston and springs in the center support or putting in the roller clutch. When rollerized I got no end play with .035 shim and slight endplay with .030 shim... but it didn't feel like the amount of end play in a stock setup. This time with the full assembly ready to drop in piston, roller clutch and all, I get no end play from center support to reaction carrier when using .080 worth of shim, and end play when using .075 worth of shim. Interesting. I would say that 0.065 worth of shim feels closer to the level of non rollerized stock endplay.

Roller clutch is good.
What is not good is installing this sonnax no walk bushing backwards. It protrudes past the bearing. Something tells me this is why the snap ring wont go on even with a 2 tang plastic shim installed, no bearing or any other shims in the front planet, and no shims around the sonnax no walk bushing.... time to back it out a little, no? Is this why the snap ring won’t seat based on the amount you see sticking out in the pics?

What is the point of installing a no walk bushing backwards if it can walk out? For centering the bushing? Not installing it backwards of course means I would need to use the proper bearing which is different from the one being used now. Is installing backwards still your preference?

IMG_3492.JPG
IMG_3490.JPG


With .045" worth of shim under the bearing:

IMG_3496.JPG


on the bench, stock washer setup no bearings or extra shims:



IMG_3485.JPG
 
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I've built to many of these with the Sonnax no-walk installed backwards, It's going to take Shim under the Bearing.

If you make the Bearing & Shims the same thickness as the Original 3 Tang Selective & 4 Tang Thrust.....It will be proud of the Bushing, And there is not way you would end-up with needing less thickness.....ALWAYS more.

Like I said.....The reaction carrier shouldn't have any effect on this as it's a floating member unless you have it shimmed too tight.
 

primetime

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I tapped the no walk bushing in a little more and the bushing can still center on it. I completely removed the bearing and shims off the no walk bushing to test fit the snap ring now. Even with a stock configuration put in from the output shaft to the center support, the snap ring still won’t go on all the way such that the snap ring gap is wide like the picture I showed above with the white text. Not sure what I am over looking.
 

primetime

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The center support seems to seat correctly in the front planet. I checked for burrs on the bushing in the front planet and it’s good.

614E1BB8-CAA0-4B30-A7B8-9C600FDE432B.jpeg
 

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primetime

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Was the snap ring seated when you were checking rear endplay?

It most likely wasn't. I looked at the bolt hole at that time for the center support and saw it lined up and didn't pay close attention to the detail on the snap ring. I'm sure the end play is all off and I have to start from scratch especially since I tapped that no walk bushing out a millimeter or 2.
 
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