New Shotgun Day - Mossberg 590A1 Retrograde!

Joined
Oct 10, 2021
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204
Location
Iowa
Bought a Mossberg 500 used, for $200 a couple years ago, for my Son-in-law. Guy I knew that needed some quick cash at a bar one day.
Good shape and very little shot. Picked up a sighted slug barrel at a gun show, $75. Made him a heck of a gun for under $300.

Nothing wrong with a Mossberg. Still prefer my Winchester 1200 for cheap guns, but would use either with no qualms. Mainly because of the safety on the Winchester. Just used it for so many years, the Mossberg would take thinking and not come natural.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2022
Messages
118
Location
Florida
I’m curious what makes you say that the Benelli M2 or Beretta 1301 models are “far better tactical shotguns”, beyond the obvious point that they’re semi-automatic.

Are they more accurate? More reliable? More durable?


I'm an 870 armorer and absolutely love the platform. I know the 870 like the back of my hand. That being said, its still a pump shotgun. The more modern Benelli or Beretta tactical shotguns are light years ahead in ability, speed, reliability.

1) Pump shotguns are far less reliable, most of the time (than a top quality auto) ,especially in the hands of a novice. This platform honestly needs several days of intense training to become proficient.
2) Pump shotguns are slower
3) Pump shotguns are harder to operate if you get injured
4) Pump shotguns have more recoil

The pump shotgun is not a bad choice.

I have a lot of time behind a Benelli M2 tactical and its just a fantastic platform.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
2,254
Location
Maryland
I have a Mossburg pump 20 guage shotgun that I bought as a Kid in the 60's. I think I paid $79.00 for it from Montgomery Ward. To this day it is my favorite gun. Smooth and well balanced. Spot on with a rifle slug.
 

john_pifer

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Jul 8, 2012
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
I was going to ask the same thing. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard anybody make that claim.

Pretty much the only way you’re going to have any sort of malfunction on a good pump shotgun is by short-shucking it. And that’s pretty easy to avoid if you’re deliberate and conscientious while operating it.

I agree that training and practice is needed. But that’s with any firearm.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
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9,022
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Lake Havasu City, Arizona
There is nothing "wrong" with the reliability of pump shotguns. Semi auto's, (even the precious $2K+ Benelli M4's), have had, and continue to have, their fair share of operational issues in regards to reliability. Especially with lighter loads.






 
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
165
Location
Boston
Bought a Benelli m4 ( new in the box) about 6 weeks ago. Brought it home, took it apart , gave it a good cleaning, oiled it back up and took it to the range. Put 95 rounds through it without any hiccups at all. No FTF, No FTE No Jams. All rounds were Hi brass and rated over 1200 FPS. Some 3 inch magnums. ( My shoulder was a little sore) Will take it out again in a week or two and do the same. My point is the Benelli needs to be broken-in. Everybody that I know of that has the m4 and broke them in has not had any issues with them at all. Some never did a break-in and had no issues. I will start a new thread If I have any issues when I take it out for the second time.
 

john_pifer

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Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
4,604
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
Bought a Benelli m4 ( new in the box) about 6 weeks ago. Brought it home, took it apart , gave it a good cleaning, oiled it back up and took it to the range. Put 95 rounds through it without any hiccups at all. No FTF, No FTE No Jams. All rounds were Hi brass and rated over 1200 FPS. Some 3 inch magnums. ( My shoulder was a little sore) Will take it out again in a week or two and do the same. My point is the Benelli needs to be broken-in. Everybody that I know of that has the m4 and broke them in has not had any issues with them at all. Some never did a break-in and had no issues. I will start a new thread If I have any issues when I take it out for the second time.
You know what doesn’t need to be broken in?

A pump shotgun.

Sorry man, had to! 😂

Enjoy your M4, and please do start a thread on it. I’m curious about them.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2021
Messages
204
Location
Iowa
Bought my 1200 in 1965, my first shotgun. Good times.
Harvested quite a few deer and birds with my 1200. It came with a modified choke barrel. Then I got into deer hunting, so I bought a smooth bore barrel with rifle sights.

I could not hit crap with the new barrel. Took trying a bunch of brand slugs, until I found one it liked.
Brenneke K.O. slugs. So I ordered a case (which I thought to be 100) through a local dealer. Picked them up and it was a 250 round case...LOL! I still have some around today, though I quit deer hunting about 5 years ago. Sucks to get old!
 

john_pifer

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Jul 8, 2012
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
Today Mossberg's manufacturing is done both in Turkey and in the US, from parts made in both America and Mexico.
I did read online where someone said that some of their guns are made in USA and some parts are made in Mexico.

In the inquiry I sent via their website, I specifically asked where the 590A1 and the Retrograde are made. We’ll see if theyre specific in their answer.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
17
Location
Albuquerque, NM
If you saw my recent thread about the Mossberg Mariner Marinecote you knew I was looking at shotguns.

Well, seeing that Mariner on sale spurred me into doing some research into what else was available, and by the time I got ready to buy, Sportsman’s Warehouse was all sold out.

But after doing some research, I found that what I really wanted was a 590A1 anyway (the ones that Sportsman’s Warehouse had on sale were the standard 590).

If you’re not familiar, the 590A1 differs from the standard Mossberg 590 in that it has a heavy-walled barrel, metal trigger guard and safety, Parkerized finish instead of matte blueing, and some people claim that the action of the trigger is better.

One article I read even claimed that the heavier barrel actually results in a tighter pattern, due to different barrel harmonics, despite the fact that it’s a cylinder bore shotgun (no choke). And that may even be the reason behind the heavy barrel, as part of the MIL-S-3443G spec that this gun was made for defines how tight the pattern has to be at a certain distance from the muzzle (see below).

Oh, and it has a bayonet lug. And yes, I’ll definitely be getting a bayonet for it! (How could you not, right?!)

But, the biggest thing is that the “A1” version of the Mossberg 590 is supposedly the only shotgun to have officially passed the so-called MIL-S-3443G specification, created to define the characteristics desired in a military fighting shotgun.

I found the “cliffnotes” version posted on another forum. Theres more to it than this; I found the complete downloadable specs, but it’s 33 pages. You can find it easily if interested.

Here’s the abbreviated spec:

TARGETING AND ACCURACY (PATTERN):

At a range of 40 yards (+/- one foot) aim shall be taken at the center of a pattern sheet not less than 40 nor more than 60 inches square. The shot pattern shall be such that not less than 33 1/3 per cent of the shot pellets shall be within or cut the edge of a 30-inch diameter circle for accuracy (pattern), drawn entirely on the pattern sheet so as to enclose the most shot. Five patterns shall be fired from each gun and the average must be as specified. The guns shall be hand held during firing, or mounted in a fixture that simulates hand firing. Ammunition shall be as specified in 3.17.3.

ENDURANCE TEST (LOT ACCEPTANCE)

Shotguns shall be capable of withstanding the firing of 3,000 rounds with no unserviceable or broken parts and no more than three (3) malfunctions using standard commercial 12-gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 00 buckshot (9 pellets), maximum load shells. Type I shotguns shall include M7 bayonet and scabbard as specified in 3.3.1.a.

ROUGH HANDLING

After completion of the performance test, three weapons shall be chosen and subjected to the rough handling test. Each weapon will have the safety "on", a primed cartridge case in the chamber, and a fully loaded magazine. One weapon shall be conditioned at -20 degrees F, one at ambient, and one at +120 degrees F for a minimum of four hours prior to the test. The weapons shall be dropped a minimum of four feet (lowest point on the weapon to the drop surface) in each of the following five modes:

Butt end down

right side down

left side down

top side down

45 degree angle with verticle plane- butt end down

The drop surface shall be 85 + 5 Durometer (Shore A) rubber mat, one inch thick, backed by concrete. At the test conclusion the weapon must be safe and serviceable and the primed shell shall not have fired.


INTERCHANGEABILITY TEST:

Shotguns shall be tested for interchangeability of repair parts (see 3.18) by disassembling the shotguns and placing parts of each kind in the same container. The ten shotguns shall then be reassembled using repair parts taken at random from each container and subjected to the functioning test of 4.6.3 and the headspace test of 4.6.2.

HEAT SHIELD EFFECTIVENESS

Type I shotguns shall be tested for heat shield effectiveness (see 3.3.3.e). The shotgun and its ammunition shall be conditioned at 78 degrees +/- 8 degrees F for a minimum of four hours. Then 25 rounds of standard, commercial, 12 gauge, 2 3/4 inch, 00 buckshot (9 pellets) maximun load shells shall be fired in not more than 3 minutes (rate of fire is to be approximately 1 shot every 5 seconds). Immediately after completion of the firing, the temperature of representative ares of the heat shield shall be measured. No measurement shall exceed initial temperature plus 40 degrees F. Areas to be measured and measuring equipment used shall be approved by the Government representative. At the discretion of the contractor, this test may be performed in conjunction with the endurance test (4.6.5).


And, always having been a big admirer of firearms made of traditional wood and steel, when I saw the “Retrograde” model of the 590A1, which comes with walnut stock and “corncob” walnut forend grip, I decided that was the one I wanted.

View attachment 93188

I really like the Mariner version of the A1, also, and I like the “riot gun” look of the shorter barrel. But what made my decision in favor of the Retrograde was the fact that the Mariner Marinecote version of the 590 only comes with the 18.5” barrel instead of the 20” barrel, and mag capacity is only 6 instead of the 8 of the 20” barrel models.

I started looking around, and apparently the A1 Retrograde is one of the most highly desirable shotguns in the world.

A few days ago, I went to the websites of several online gun shops who had the Retrograde listed. Nobody had one, but they all offered to take your phone no or email, and they’d let you know when they got one.

Tuesday morning, KY Gun Co. got a shipment, and texted me around 11:00 that morning. But, because I work nights, I didn’t get the text until about 11:45, and all the ones they received had already been spoken for. Not a surprise - they had them listed for $779 - a good price that would seem to be well below what they’ve been going for.

We were leaving that day to head to the Memphis area to visit my mom, and it just so happened that a shop here, Guns and Ammo, had one of the 590A1 Retrograde models in stock with $869 on the sticker. Not a great price, but less than the $1000 and up that they’re going for on GunBroker. So I drove over with cash and offered $860, which was what the one from KY Gun Co. would have cost with tax. No dice - “what’s on the tag is what it is”. I said “let’s write it up”.

(BTW these used to go for substantially less during the Trump era - around $700 before tax is what I’ve read.)

Oh well. I’ve gotten a few smoking deals in the past. This wasn’t an exceptional deal, but not a horrible deal, either.

It was strange, as I drove back to my mom’s house, to think that one of my kids will own this one day! Getting old, LOL. Never used to have thoughts like that on the way home from the LGS!

Picked up a couple boxes of Federal Flite Control 2-3/4” 00 buckshot. Never know when you might need 9 rounds of 12GA, right?

Can’t wait to shoot it.

View attachment 93197 View attachment 93198 View attachment 93199
Where did you get it?
 
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