Shoot out in my back yard

[Pablo]

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1. illegal wire tapping by the leaders of your country
2. free speech suppression through the patriot act's I and II
3. sending men and women into harms way based on lies to the people.
4. corporate fraud that has cost billions to regular people and rocked the energy sector to it's core.

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Your reality is really skewed. Not sure what CNN has to do with it.

1) There has been NO illegal wire tapping in the USA. There has been wire tapping since the 1960's of foreign incoming calls from enemy nations. No invasion of rights or privacy there.
2) Free speech suppression? Please cite examples. It's just not happening unless you mean how some want to stifle talk radio.
3) That we can debate forever. I don't think it was "lies".
4) Not sure what this has to do with freedoms, but one of the biggest stock market losses I had was when Canada rolled out the new tax schemes on income trusts. Talk about fraud and theft - grandmas across the land dropped millions (collectively) by one act of a government. I simply don't invest in Canada any more.

I don't kid myself - we are losing freedoms - and it really sneaky how they are lost. It's not Bush tapping my phone or putting bugs in my house or reading my email. No, it's liberals carbon taxing my property, it's the government deciding where we are allowed to build, to drive......

 

[webfors]

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Gun/violent crime is directly related fathers not being in their home and actually fathering their own kids. Those kids want a sense of belonging that their father is not instilling into them, yet the gang offers that for them. The rest is academic. And society pays DEARLY.

It's truly a sad sight to behold.

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One of the main reasons I work from home is to be with my kids every single day. I'd rather have too much time with them, instead of not enough

 

[webfors]

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Your reality is really skewed. Not sure what CNN has to do with it.

1) There has been NO illegal wire tapping in the USA. There has been wire tapping since the 1960's of foreign incoming calls from enemy nations. No invasion of rights or privacy there.
2) Free speech suppression? Please cite examples. It's just not happening unless you mean how some want to stifle talk radio.
3) That we can debate forever. I don't think it was "lies".
4) Not sure what this has to do with freedoms, but one of the biggest stock market losses I had was when Canada rolled out the new tax schemes on income trusts. Talk about fraud and theft - grandmas across the land dropped millions (collectively) by one act of a government. I simply don't invest in Canada any more.

I don't kid myself - we are losing freedoms - and it really sneaky how they are lost. It's not Bush tapping my phone or putting bugs in my house or reading my email. No, it's liberals carbon taxing my property, it's the government deciding where we are allowed to build, to drive......

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1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19461815/
2. I don't have any personal experience, but there are thousands with a simple google search.
3. True, I agree there may have been some very valid reasons, but those reasons were not presented to the public in an honest up front way. They used acronyms instead to scare the heck out of people.. WMD anyone?
4. More and more corporations were converting to income trusts to avoid taxes. The government had to do something... income trusts was something that never should of happened in the first place in my opinion. Much MUCH different then power hungry rich fools stealing billions for themselves, illegally to boot. At least with the income trust legislation the government gets the money and reinvests for the betterment of every citizen through varied social programs. But yes, I agree, it was a sly and unpopular move for those with income trust investments. AND, if you dig a little deeper, they did back off a little and setup a grandfathering system as to not hurt the most vulnerable.

Governing is a delicate balancing act.. too much = communism, too little = anarchy. Easy to be a critic I suppose.

 

[Pablo]

I'll just counter your #1 lest we get too deep in the already forbidden zone.......that is a political witch hunt, which will end up no where. The link proves nothing.....other than our Congress once again is wasting time while Rome burns.

 

[webfors]

cnn is a perfect example of what's wrong with north american society.. sensational presentation of news, skewed facts, hype, disregard for life and glorification of war... it almost seems like a Saturday Night Live episode having me forever waiting for the punchline... cause I think to myself 'this can't be real', but alas it is. Scary stuff

 

[webfors]

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I'll just counter your #1 lest we get too deep in the already forbidden zone.......that is a political witch hunt, which will end up no where. The link proves nothing.....other than our Congress once again is wasting time while Rome burns.

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agreed, but there is always some truth behind the curtain. Maybe I've been reading too many conspiracy sites, but Cheney gives me the chills. I wouldn't want him, or anyone near him to have too much power. Oh right, too late...

Sorry for hijacking this thread.. ever since last year (montreal gunman near my little girl) gun crime gets my blood boiling.

 

[Gary Allan]

It's a complex issue, webfors. We aren't "free". We surrendered that for assured liberties. One of them was to prevent our government from neutering us with disarming us. There's an effort to slowly disarm us and it's bolstered by notions such as yours. There is some validity to your beliefs ..but once the population is disarmed ..then you open yourself to a "gloves off" manner of rule. It may not mean anything to you now ..with your current leadership ..under our current conditions ..etc..etc. .. but I assert that 1984 was only possible with a totally controlled population that was totally helpless to resist them. Not that I truly think that we're capable of winning an armed conflict if and when this occurs ..but I'll hold on to the illusion ..and I only own one shotgun.

..but we're in lock territory now.

 

[webfors]

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..but we're in lock territory now.

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very true..

I don't ever want to see a gunless society, just better management of them. As mentioned previously, I can buy any gun I want as long as I jump through the right hoops. What law abiding citizen should have a problem with that?

I remember when I was younger our family went to florida. We went to this flea market outside orlando. I clearly remember this old lady and man at one counter selling handguns, no kidding. I got pumped up, you mean I could buy one just like that. The human instinct in me wanted one.. but alas I didn't have the strict requirement of a 'Florida driver's license'. This is the type of scenario that cries 'gun control' to me.

 

[moribundman]

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once the population is disarmed ..then you open yourself to a "gloves off" manner of rule.

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Any substantial number of sheep resisting with physical force their freedom being taken away is bloody likely, eh? I suspect muted bleating will be the only heroic sound heard. Everyone's a "mouth hero," and the volume of his bleating is generally inverse proportional to the likelihood of him taking any action.

 

[Gary Allan]

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Any substantial number of sheep resisting with physical force their freedom being taken away is bloody likely, eh?

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No. That's why you cultivate and promote becoming sheep as the default condition. You seduce them into "self pacification" via playing to their id ..making as many of them, in the true sense of the word, idiots (pleasures and sex drives) ..and they'll willingly walk into whatever cattle chute that you put before them as the easiest path.

The last thing you need is a population that's intelligent and totally aware of where you're taking them.

 

[moribundman]

All is going according to plan, obviously.

 

[Tempest]

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No. That's why you cultivate and promote becoming sheep as the default condition. You seduce them into "self pacification" via playing to their id ..making as many of them, in the true sense of the word, idiots (pleasures and sex drives) ..and they'll willingly walk into whatever cattle chute that you put before them as the easiest path.

The last thing you need is a population that's intelligent and totally aware of where you're taking them.

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Great posts Gary!

It should be noted that in the areas of the US with high people/gun ratios (ie rural areas with lax gun laws) they have lower crime rates than areas with low people/gun ratios (urban utopias

with severe gun laws).

To those that favor gun control, who will be there to protect you when the social order breaks down? Riots, natural disasters, long term power outages in a major city...all of these things have happened and the one recurring fact is that the police will NOT be able to help you (or they will leave the area to protect themselves as in Katrina).

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As mentioned previously, I can buy any gun I want as long as I jump through the right hoops. What law abiding citizen should have a problem with that?

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You are allowing the government the ability to dictate your right to self defense. Since the main point of the 2nd Amendment is to protect one's self from the government, your idea is flawed. And if they have a record of what guns you have and where they are, they can come and take them anytime they want. (Which is how our war of independence started!) Without private gun ownership, there would be no USA.

 

[webfors]

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And if they have a record of what guns you have and where they are, they can come and take them anytime they want. (Which is how our war of independence started!) Without private gun ownership, there would be no USA.

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Oh, there would be a USA. The land and people would not have vanished. You would have become part of the british commonwealth, like Canada and Australia, and would have lower gun crime rates, comprehensive social programs, less poverty and a true democratic system of government (I love our current minority government. 5 political parties forced to work together!), although you would have to pay more for everything from taxes and mortgages to oil and cars as we commonwealth'ers routinely do while grumbling under our breath. There is a price to pay for everything, the universe must be in balance

Ask any Canadian and they'll tell you they are just as independant of Britain as the USA.. maybe more so after watching the Blair and Bush show for the past few years

 

[Tempest]

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although you would have to pay more for everything from taxes and mortgages to oil and cars as we commonwealth'ers routinely do while grumbling under our breath. There is a price to pay for everything, the universe must be in balance

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What is free? If taxes >50% is "free" to you, so be it. The US is headed that way though, unfortunately. From everything that I have seen, socialized everything has serious down sides. Ever notice that other heads of state and wealthy people tend to come to the US for medical care rather than socialized countries? Hmmm...

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and would have lower gun crime rates, comprehensive social programs, less poverty and a true democratic system of government

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If memory serves me, there was a King in charge of the British system at the time of the revolutionary war, and none of those things were in place at that time. Then America separates from the Brits (because they have guns) and starts the only government "For the people, by the people" on the planet. People can actually vote for who they want (not in Britain). So I'm sure that it is simple coincidence that the power of the British monarchy started to fade after the separation. And not to mention the fact that democracy has flourished since that time. I have little faith that you or I (along with many others)would be so free today if the American Revolution was not successful.

 

[1sttruck]

A few years back the Economist looked at gun violence in the US and observed that there is probably more violence in England. You're much more likley to see fights in bars, at sports games, etc., than in the US, but the big difference in the homicide rates is due to the firearms.

At one time one could by Thompson submachine guns mail order, no questions asked. Laws got passed because people were doing stupid things with guns. Almost all of the school shootings a few years back were with guns from the home, where Columbine was different the weapons were obtained from local gun shows via straw purchases. The girlfriend who bought them wasn't prosecuted as no laws were broken. In the recent shooting a mental case legally purchased the weapons.

What would the US be like if anyone could buy any weapon at local stores, no questions asked, and ammo was readily available by the case at your corner markets. What about carrying on planes, in courts, at your kid's schools, etc.; if you don't think that anyone shoudl be able to buy any weapon and carry it wherever they want then you're 'for gun control'.

 

[Pablo]

I really wish word would get out how terrible things are in the USA, how many poor folks there are, how much crime there is and the total lack of jobs.

 

[Da Game]

For those that live in Illinois follow the below link for laws on weapons...

http://www.icarry.org/

 

[Da Game]

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I really wish word would get out how terrible things are in the USA, how many poor folks there are, how much crime there is and the total lack of jobs.

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And not to forget the Health Care System in the country, where only the wealthy or insured gets treatment. With HMO's and PPO's read the small print on your policy, take you money and may deny a claim because it maybe a pre existing injury.

 

[Pablo]

Yes that too. No health care here.

 

[webfors]

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although you would have to pay more for everything from taxes and mortgages to oil and cars as we commonwealth'ers routinely do while grumbling under our breath. There is a price to pay for everything, the universe must be in balance

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What is free? If taxes >50% is "free" to you, so be it. The US is headed that way though, unfortunately. From everything that I have seen, socialized everything has serious down sides. Ever notice that other heads of state and wealthy people tend to come to the US for medical care rather than socialized countries? Hmmm...

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and would have lower gun crime rates, comprehensive social programs, less poverty and a true democratic system of government

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If memory serves me, there was a King in charge of the British system at the time of the revolutionary war, and none of those things were in place at that time. Then America separates from the Brits (because they have guns) and starts the only government "For the people, by the people" on the planet. People can actually vote for who they want (not in Britain). So I'm sure that it is simple coincidence that the power of the British monarchy started to fade after the separation. And not to mention the fact that democracy has flourished since that time. I have little faith that you or I (along with many others)would be so free today if the American Revolution was not successful.

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All very valid points Tempest! Our tax rate is one of the highest in the world, next to France I believe.

I have a lot of friends/family living in the USA, and they are all perfectly happy. If I could stay away from politics, the media, and the latest usa network tv series, I'm sure I would think nothing of moving to the states