Seeking advice for oil in 2.3L turbo ford - driven HARD.

[JAYCEE]

I don't have much experience with hot rods, but here's my 2 cents.

I'd wait to see what the UOA looks like. They may make some recommendations.

It's hard to go wrong with mobil 1.

Or you may want to go with a good dino and Auto-RX treatment.

You definately need better oil filters.


You'll know a lot more when the UOA comes back. Post it in the UOA section for feedback.

 

[Drew99GT]

Sounds like a sweet sleeper turbo car

I'd go with any synthetic 30 or 40 weight. For 30 weight, make sure it is A3 rated (like GC). Another viable option at a lower cost would be Shell Rotella 5w-40 from Walmart. Great bargain and ideal for your application. If absolute performance is what you want, then the 40 weights may make your motor a bit more sluggish; or you may not even notice a difference.

 

[Asimov]

Ok, first off, car is an 86 tbird turbocoupe. I bought it with 97k miles. It had a new turbo on it at the time, and experience since leads me to believe the motor was rebuilt as well. This motor is NOT intercooled and the turbo is water cooled. It is modified, and I've pushed the outer limits over this winter with 18psi of boost (stock = 10) and ~2 degrees timing advance over stock. While I've not had it to the dyno, or even to the track for that matter, I'm a bit fuzzy on the hp rating, but judging from my times based on very safe testing area near my house, I'm probably putting somewhere near 200-225hp to the rear wheels, so I'm making >100hp/liter at the crank. I will be installing an intercooler soon, and probably going to ~22psi when I do (likely to see a 40-50hp jump.) On pump gas, the last 2500 miles have been run with the settings described. I have shots of the plugs, if anybody is interested, and while I was pushing it, I obviously wasn't pushing it TOO far:
http://troutlake.net/gallery/album127
(click thumbnail to get 640x, click it to get full size)

On the oil: I've been pretty religious about 3000 mile changes since I've owned the car. It currently has ~132k on it. Downside: It's all been dino oil (havoline mainly, 10w-30), and those wonderfully good cheap fram oil filters (sarcasm.) The oil has had a tendency to darken quickly, usually enough for me to be uncomfortable after about 2500 or so miles. I've never done (or even heard of, for that matter) oil analysis till finding a link to this site on either nato or turboford.

Ok, one other thing that may be pertinant, after reading here, and seeing what you all consider hard driving, I must say that my level would be somewhere around "I beat the ever-loving out of it every single time i drive it." It sees many many WOT occasions pretty much every time it gets driven. Keep in mind, these motors are built like tanks, and can take an amazing amount of abuse for a 4 cylinder in a 3200 pound car.

I've not found many recommendatons for turboford engines in the archives, but I did find one post that hinted at the fact that they are... not typical... when it comes to oil selection.

Well, I've been searching and searching, and there seems to be a lot of... not contradictory advice, because it's obvious there are many approaches to oil choice that work perfectly fine, but some confusion and enough conflict to make me change my mind about oil selection on a regular basis.

I'll be changing to a k&n oil filter without a doubt, simply due to the flow ratings. Yes, I do have a k&n air filter as well, and plan on keeping it till some UOA's come back with bad results, because the 2.3L TF engine is one of those that DOES see a huge improvement with a cone mount k&n. The stock airbox/routing is horrid and far undersized.

I think my first choice would be redline, considering the extremely hard conditions I apparently subject this motor to. I do work at home, and probably 90% of the time it's driven long enough to heat the oil up.

If I can find GC locally, I may try that, it seems to hold up pretty well in the turbo UOA's I've seen.

Mobile 1 is another consideration, as well as some of the xW-40's for heavy duty applications.

Weight choices: if GC, obviously a heavy 0w-30. If redline, i'm leaning to a 5w-40, or a 5w-30, not really decided.

If money was no object, I'd already have a few cases of redline sitting around... so money is a pretty big consideration here.

Car has a bit under 3000 miles on the oil right now, but I recently had the first seziure of my life last month at 33 years old. TN laws state that I can't even drive a motor vehicle for 6 months. It's not been diagnosed even after a ____load of testing, now it's just a wait and see game.

Ok, another question. I'd like to get a UOA on the current oil, but I fear it's going to show unreasonable wear due to the oil breaking down (turning dark is a sign of that, right?) Do you think it's going to help in the long run, or should I just start with the good oil on my next change?

Wanted to add, this is a wonderful site that's taken up probably 80+ hours of my time since i signed up reading and learning. I had no idea how much I didn't know about the subjects expounded here. Look forward to learning more in the future!

[ May 16, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Asimov ]

 

[Asimov]

Not really much of a sleeper, I'm running just a downpipe for an exhaust atm, though it will be extended to come out in front of the driver's side wheel, as soon as I get back on the road. The turbo is.... well, I guess "obvious" would be a good term. You can hear it spooling at anything much over idle.

I was really hoping to find somebody experienced with these engines here that could point me towards some oil or another...

Not, by ANY means suggesting the advice given has been bad, I'm just concerned by the few hints I've picked up out of the archives that these motors are a bit non-typical when it comes to a good oil choice.

Thanks for the help though!

-asi

 

[nickmckinney]

Turn back the clock to 1991 and I was under the hood of a 83 Turbo Coupe transplanting a motor from a wrecked 88 Turbo Coupe, what a pain in the A$$. All the connectors were different, even the motor mounts, I remember one year having these little shock absorbers built into the mounts.

Anyway we got that car into the mid 13's and couldn't keep the front cylinder happy, same thing was what killed the original motor, the front cylinder goes a bit lean from the crappy intake design. Seem to remember eating head gaskets, pistons, heads, etc.

Definately make sure your turbo oil feed lines are good, we lost a couple turbos before we found the pinch in the line.

Exhaust manifolds without cracks are worth their weight in gold.

See if you can get an intercooler like the SVO Mustang that goes on top of the motor and make a scoop in the hood.

We ran Mobil 15W50 back then in that motor.

Man its been alot of years

 

[Asimov]

quote:

---

Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Turn back the clock to 1991 and I was under the hood of a 83 Turbo Coupe transplanting a motor from a wrecked 88 Turbo Coupe, what a pain in the A$$. All the connectors were different, even the motor mounts, I remember one year having these little shock absorbers built into the mounts.

Anyway we got that car into the mid 13's and couldn't keep the front cylinder happy, same thing was what killed the original motor, the front cylinder goes a bit lean from the crappy intake design. Seem to remember eating head gaskets, pistons, heads, etc.

Definately make sure your turbo oil feed lines are good, we lost a couple turbos before we found the pinch in the line.

Exhaust manifolds without cracks are worth their weight in gold.

See if you can get an intercooler like the SVO Mustang that goes on top of the motor and make a scoop in the hood.

We ran Mobil 15W50 back then in that motor.

Man its been alot of years

---

Ok, a few comments...

1) the front cylinder runs hottest (coolant frows from back to front) so it does generally see the worst conditions, but it's not due to the intake -- It's more often due to poor/inadequate coolant flow. If you were running the stock fuel pump, that's probably the reason you were eating head gaskets. There are plenty of people running 30+ psi of boost that use a cheap fram gasket as a "weak link" in an attempt to save engine damage if it suddenly runs lean for some reason. Most that have good tune (like wide band A/F tuning) have no problem blowing gaskets even with the cheap ones.


2) The early e3 manifold was VERY prone to cracking -- it was replaced by the e6, and it's much heavier, and while it is still known to crack, it's pretty stout. Another major factor in manifold/header cracking is when you hang the exhaust off it -- You should have hangers supporting the exhaust, and a flex pipe at the end of the downpipe to relieve stress.

3) A top mounted intercooler like the SVO/87-88 turbocoupe are in the worst possible location -- a few inches from the turbo/header. I already have a supercoupe intercooler that will be both front mounted and forced air cooled (fan on it)

4) Not to ruin your fond rememberances, but quite a few turbocoupes are deep in the 13's.... stock. One guy turned a 13.22 the other day pretty much stock -- including the SMALL IHI turbo that was on the 87-88. I think there is another guy in the 12's, but he's basicly at the top of his class in the NHRA stock class (no porting/all stock/stock weight.) Kinda freaky to see a 4 cylinder 3200 pound car with all stock internals pulling the front end a foot in the air on launch.

Uhm... I think I've drifted off topic here, sorry... Just one of my favorite subjects, hope you all will forgive me

Still looking for anybody with experience with synthetic oils in the 2.3L turboford motor

-asi

 

[Big Jim]

I remember working on those engines when they were new. I always used 10W40 oil.

I highly recommend you review the ignition timing. Usually when you add boost, you need to reduce ignition timing to keep from frying pistons. I have seen that happen on that engine!

 

[Asimov]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Big Jim:
I remember working on those engines when they were new. I always used 10W40 oil.

I highly recommend you review the ignition timing. Usually when you add boost, you need to reduce ignition timing to keep from frying pistons. I have seen that happen on that engine!

---

Yup! Very important. However, my 86 was a special year, which came with a small VAM, large injectors, and a rather less aggressive timing curve due to the fact it's not intercooled. Trying to do what I have done with an 87-88 would have littered the track with parts on the first run.

 

[dagmando]

Don't worry about the car having dino oil and Fram in the past. My 87 Grand National has 120K and the first 100K was driven HARD including several 1/4 runs. I bought the car new in 1987 before college and had 3K mile oil changes at Jiffy Lube with Castrol GTX 10W-30 and Fram oil/air filters for that first 100K. Two years ago I replaced the oil pan gasket and the bottom end was a golden color with absolutely no sludge. I didn't even need to clean the bottom of the oil pan. Regular maintenance is more important than what oil you use. I'll take Castrol GTX w/Fram oil filter every 3K miles over an AMSOIL 25K oil change with by-pass, blah, blah, blah anyday and I have almost 15 car that will agree. The only car I use synthetic(GC) is my SAAB 9000 Turbo because I drive 3 miles a day and I feel comfortable doing 7.5K+ oil change with short trip conditions. Besides, I have a lift in the storage garage that make things like this VERY easy.

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Asimov:

quote:

---

Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Turn back the clock to 1991 and I was under the hood of a 83 Turbo Coupe transplanting a motor from a wrecked 88 Turbo Coupe, what a pain in the A$$. All the connectors were different, even the motor mounts, I remember one year having these little shock absorbers built into the mounts.

Anyway we got that car into the mid 13's and couldn't keep the front cylinder happy, same thing was what killed the original motor, the front cylinder goes a bit lean from the crappy intake design. Seem to remember eating head gaskets, pistons, heads, etc.

Definately make sure your turbo oil feed lines are good, we lost a couple turbos before we found the pinch in the line.

Exhaust manifolds without cracks are worth their weight in gold.

See if you can get an intercooler like the SVO Mustang that goes on top of the motor and make a scoop in the hood.

We ran Mobil 15W50 back then in that motor.

Man its been alot of years

---

Ok, a few comments...

1) the front cylinder runs hottest (coolant frows from back to front) so it does generally see the worst conditions, but it's not due to the intake -- It's more often due to poor/inadequate coolant flow. If you were running the stock fuel pump, that's probably the reason you were eating head gaskets. There are plenty of people running 30+ psi of boost that use a cheap fram gasket as a "weak link" in an attempt to save engine damage if it suddenly runs lean for some reason. Most that have good tune (like wide band A/F tuning) have no problem blowing gaskets even with the cheap ones.


2) The early e3 manifold was VERY prone to cracking -- it was replaced by the e6, and it's much heavier, and while it is still known to crack, it's pretty stout. Another major factor in manifold/header cracking is when you hang the exhaust off it -- You should have hangers supporting the exhaust, and a flex pipe at the end of the downpipe to relieve stress.

3) A top mounted intercooler like the SVO/87-88 turbocoupe are in the worst possible location -- a few inches from the turbo/header. I already have a supercoupe intercooler that will be both front mounted and forced air cooled (fan on it)

4) Not to ruin your fond rememberances, but quite a few turbocoupes are deep in the 13's.... stock. One guy turned a 13.22 the other day pretty much stock -- including the SMALL IHI turbo that was on the 87-88. I think there is another guy in the 12's, but he's basicly at the top of his class in the NHRA stock class (no porting/all stock/stock weight.) Kinda freaky to see a 4 cylinder 3200 pound car with all stock internals pulling the front end a foot in the air on launch.

Uhm... I think I've drifted off topic here, sorry... Just one of my favorite subjects, hope you all will forgive me

Still looking for anybody with experience with synthetic oils in the 2.3L turboford motor

-asi

---

Not ruining my fond memories, but you post some harsh critique and have no idea of the particulars. We did that on a basically stock tweeked motor 14 years ago, no slicks, no race gas, etc, only real significant "mod" was a non cat exhaust and good tweeking. Used 15" Mustang wheels to get rid of the Metric BS. Car was highway driven from DC to Kentucky ~3 times per year and still had AC, total cost probably about $2K plus the car.

We got the air from the windshield base to feed the intercooler, highest pressure point for airflow on the car, way more than the nose, plus the piping needed is alot less to lower the lag. Remember the turbo has to pressurize all that extra piping and intercooler as well.

The intake ports on those 2.3 Fords leave alot to be desired IMHO, but thats my opinion of course.

Back to the oil, I would run 15W50 Mobil, oil Accumulator, and a System 1 filter if it was my turbo racer.

 

[Asimov]

Correction: 13.027

 

[TomJones76]

I'd run an Auto-RX cleaning through her.
Auto-RX is a site sponsor, and a car with that mileage on dino with a turbo could probably use it.
Auto Rx

After I got through cleaning it, I'd probably do Redline, just like your initial inclination. Maybe Mobil 1 Truck & SUV, which is also fairly heat-resistant, and probably a little bit cheaper.

 

[Asimov]

Price is an issue, that's for sure, but I'm still leaning toward RL... Do you think I should do a UOA on the oil that's in it when I change?

As far as the auto-rx treatment, the motor is pretty clean inside. I know from reading here that "pretty clean looking" does not neccisarily mean that it is clean..... Something for the future, I'm really concerned at the moment of getting synthetic in it.


Hmmm... Anybody in East Tennessee wanna split a case of redline? Or know a local place to grab some GC?

 

[Asimov]

I'm not real clear on whether this is allowed or not, but it is on subject anyway...

http://www.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=016228

^- ran a 13.031, record in class is 13.15 and he's shooting for twelves. STOCK.