S65 M3 engine

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Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Internal engine work should not be a given on a street car, unless it's one seriously mean car.

A car like an M3 should be a bite at those cars; taunting the exotics for achieving much of what they have done, while keeping the drivability and reliability.

Since it appears BMW never took an official position on this matter, it's hard to know the actual scope of the matter.



I sold an 850 HP supercharged 572 boat not too long ago, based on a massaged crate engine. Almost 500 hours on it when sold, no problems at all. I totally agree that bottom end parts are not commonly service items even on radical engines.


If I didn't know better thanks to the BITOG car snobs I would think there is a manufacturing defect involved.
 
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Internal engine work should not be a given on a street car, unless it's one seriously mean car.

A car like an M3 should be a bite at those cars; taunting the exotics for achieving much of what they have done, while keeping the drivability and reliability.

Since it appears BMW never took an official position on this matter, it's hard to know the actual scope of the matter.



I sold an 850 HP supercharged 572 boat not too long ago, based on a massaged crate engine. Almost 500 hours on it when sold, no problems at all. I totally agree that bottom end parts are not commonly service items even on radical engines.


If I didn't know better thanks to the BITOG car snobs I would think there is a manufacturing defect involved.


As a BMW fanboy I could not agree more. Not that it matters to BMW but I was utterly disappointed in them when it seemed that they did not learn from their bearing issues with the S54 (I6). The S85 (V10 M5/M6) shares similar architecture with the S65 and it also has bearing issues. It's unacceptable.
 
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Isn't it obvious that BMW warranty care is in total conflict with these race engines??
It was 15k miles and owners bought into the BS.
Even 10k OCIs !!
What a joke.

Common (?) sense ... not so much.
Anyone buying one should have the sense to change the oil every 3-5k.
 
I wouldn't say that ALL owners are lacking in common sense.

I WILL say that BMW should have made it abundantly clear that these engines are not the same mild-mannered engines that are installed in some of their more mainstream cars. Of course that could have scared away potential customers.

My S85 runs great.
 
Are you the orig owner?
I see you use the good stuff - RL.
As do I. How long have you been using it in this car?
Mine purrs with it
 
Original owner. I've been using Redline 10w60 in my M6 6-speed manual since the third oil change. I wasn't too concerned about it potentially being more maintenance intensive. As I was a Master Tech, I still have my tools, I have kept current on any advancements since I left the consumer car repair field, and I have friends who still are in that line of work who own and would allow access to any equipment I don't have, should I ever need to fix/rebuild it.
 
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by edyvw
Corvette? When I hear that clumsy auto tranny shifting it tells me everything about "sport."
Oh man -- I drove an automatic C7 convertible recently. Felt like a last-generation chassis with a 30 year-old powertrain. Throttle response like a truck, utterly incompetent transmission for anything other than puttering around. Less exciting than the same-year automatic 911 cabrio I drove, despite having significantly more power and no turbos to spool. Comparing it to the Porsche was like comparing a Fisher Price tool set to the real thing.

Might be worth noting that car was a whole generation newer than the LS engines that were contemporary to the S65...

And comparing the BMW M3 to the Porsche?
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I just passed by this on the street. Is this the car under discussion in this thread? I should get me one of these.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



I used to have one of those, from 1986 to 1990. No foolin'. So see, my disdain for BMW's is genuine, honed from owning one of them.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The S85 (V10 M5/M6) shares similar architecture with the S65 and it also has bearing issues. It's unacceptable.

Take an S85, chop off two cylinders, and add a few tweaks to fix certain problems and reduce unnecessary complication. That's an S65.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
And comparing the BMW M3 to the Porsche?

Different cars in different leagues.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote

The cold-engine viscosity is not determined by the x in xW-y. It's determined by the y in xW-y and viscosity index. x in xW-y determines the crankability (CCS) and pumpability (MRV) at very low temperatures, not the operational low-shear or high-shear viscosity at most temperatures.

For example:

Mobil 1 15W-50 KV100, KV40, and KV20 = 18.0, 125, and 342 cSt, respectively.
Castrol 10W-60 KV100, KV40, and KV20 = 22.7, 160, and 436 cSt, respectively.
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 KV100, KV40, and KV20 = 12.9, 70.8, and 170 cSt, respectively.
TGMO 0W-20 (© 2015 reformulation) KV100, KV40, and KV20 = 8.4, 35.2, and 72.8 cSt, respectively.

As you see, a 15W-xx can be thinner than a 10W-xx when cold. a 0W-xx can be several times thinner than another 0W-xx when cold.

No, I didn't recommend TGMO, which is a fairly thin oil. Nevertheless, I don't think it will do any worse if not better in this poorly designed engine than the recommended 10W-60.

Note that the bearings and oil pressure are both governed by the high-shear, not kinematic, viscosity, regardless of the temperature.

So, some are saying that the wear happens because people don't follow the old "Do not race a cold engine" caution. Perhaps, but then this caution applies to all oils and engines. Also, psychologically, this conjecture is buried in their 10W-60 use (We're using a very thick oil and we should be easy on the pedal when the engine is cold.)

You seriously do not have any idea that people here know that. I do not understand point of your post. What you trying to say? That you search internet good?
Regardless whether oil is 0W or 10W, cold engine is cold engine, and according to some theory that is culprit. Only recommended oil is 10W60. Let's say there is good reason for that. You will not solve this puzzle by reading stuff on internet which in many cases is inaccurate.
And TGMO? Poorly designed engine? Is that why Toyota buys engines from BMW? Because they cannot design engine?
Stick to Corolla.


Well. Toyota did buy some diesels from BMW to use in there European market. But those engines is with out a doubt the worst pile of [censored] ever to be dropped in a Toyota engine bay. The number of common problems with those engines are massive compared to what the typical Toyota owner is used to.
 
Quote
Well. Toyota did buy some diesels from BMW to use in there European market. But those engines is with out a doubt the worst pile of [censored] ever to be dropped in a Toyota engine bay. The number of common problems with those engines are massive compared to what the typical Toyota owner is used to.

Toyota 1.4 D-4D and 2.2 D-4D are the worst diesel European market ever saw, short of Renault 2.1 diesel. Those are Toyota engines. Toyota is sticking to BMW engines, 2.0ltr, and now buying versions of B48 and B58 for Supra.
By the way, I own Land Cruiser 3.0 D-4D and was less reliable than my E61 525d and my X5 35d which had first generation SCR, which is by no means reliable emission system.
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Don't forget that Toyota needed BMW to make them their most recent sports car.


If we should use that logic.. BMW needed Peugeot to help them develop a simple 4 cyl turbo petrol. ( n12 n13 n14 n16 n18 Prince engines ) I am pretty sure though that BMW buyers prefer to say it is a BMW engine.
 
Originally Posted by shDK
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Don't forget that Toyota needed BMW to make them their most recent sports car.


If we should use that logic.. BMW needed Peugeot to help them develop a simple 4 cyl turbo petrol. ( n12 n13 n14 n16 n18 Prince engines ) I am pretty sure though that BMW buyers prefer to say it is a BMW engine.

No it did not.
BMW did not have 4cyl engine that was readily available for transverse application. I owned BMW with an M10 engine in 1989 E30, so BMW had 4 cyl engines always in stable, but ready for longitudinal only application.
When BMW decided to develop new Mini that is when Peugeot engines came in, and last time I checked there were cars like Peugeot M16, 205 GTI etc. which had legendary 4cyl engines.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by shDK
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Don't forget that Toyota needed BMW to make them their most recent sports car.


If we should use that logic.. BMW needed Peugeot to help them develop a simple 4 cyl turbo petrol. ( n12 n13 n14 n16 n18 Prince engines ) I am pretty sure though that BMW buyers prefer to say it is a BMW engine.

No it did not.
BMW did not have 4cyl engine that was readily available for transverse application. I owned BMW with an M10 engine in 1989 E30, so BMW had 4 cyl engines always in stable, but ready for longitudinal only application.
When BMW decided to develop new Mini that is when Peugeot engines came in, and last time I checked there were cars like Peugeot M16, 205 GTI etc. which had legendary 4cyl engines.


We agree. I still believe the majority of BMW/mini buyers would be said the hear they share engine with a Peugeot or Citroen
 
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