Redline...

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Well Guys and Gals I just ordered 6 qts of Redline 5/30 and when I get it I will do a VOA, then pour it in the Evo. Dave at Redline seems pretty confident that this is the ticket for my car. I will give it a shot and keep you all posted. I will run it for a year, to do several UOA's and then give a final word about my experience with the oil.

Thanks for all your help everyone

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Dumb question...if you have been running the M1 for 30K, why change? Is the motor having issues? Are UOAs coming back lousy?


Because with each passiing year, the HP and TQ numbers go up and up, the car makes more power every year. Im about 100whp over stock now. I think its time for a change. It definately wouldn't hurt to give the Redline a try.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I have ordered the Redline 5/30 and will give it a try. I will do a VOA as well. Many factors came into play for me when I chose this oil. Many good oils out there you all know that. For my application it was tough. I was pretty loyal to M1 since it has treated my car very well. As the HP and TQ numbers rise over the years due to modifications and all, and living in the hottest part of the country in the summer time where even cactus die, I felt it wouldnt hurt to try the home state oil (Redline).

Now, I don't abuse my car, just use my car. My car would see several hours on the dyno before it was shut down to cool. The car has seen track time and will again, just at the moment track sessions are on hold due to 20% pay cuts at my work. To me, M1 may have been fine since I have been using it for so long, but as a car enthusiast I have the "bug" to always try the bigger better thing, even when the "average" thing may suffice. Its just part of being a gear head I guess. Its an obsession to gain every little bit of HP and TQ out of this little 4 banger.

After owning this car for 4 yrs, I must admit, its just as fun driving it now as it was they day I took it home from the dealer. I feel I owe it to this car to fill it with the best possible fluids I can afford. It has done me well, and has embarrassed cars costing 3x's as much. So, I will give the Redline a shot, do my VOA, and UOA's. I think a UOA at 3K miles will be my first one, then will go from there. I plan on running this oil for at least a year to give it a fair shake, and for time to do adequate UOA comparo's.

I will aslo be giving the Redline MT-85 for my Tranny a try as well as their 75/90 for the rear end. Im do to change it anyway. Will do that next month. My transfer case though specifies OEM Diaqueen Fluid ONLY. Doesn't give any alternative. So I will just stick with the OEM fulid for that which is a synthetic anyway.

Again, thanks for all your help guys and gals. Been a very interesting thread, and hope to keep it alive with a VOA soon and some UOA's down the road.

Jeff

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: dparm
My S4 is not turbo, it's an NA 4.2L 40V V8. I do track it and race it.

My UOA looked really good on the 300V, far better than the Lubro-Moly Synthoil 5w40 that all the Audi guys seem to be obsessed with. Overkill for my car? Maybe, but for a few extra bucks I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I'm actually going to give German Castrol a shot for the next change and see how it compares. If the UOAs look good, I'll probably stay with that since it costs only $6/qt versus $15.


My friends S4 was a twin turbo V6 that made over 600whp. The thing was a beast. Would lay down 4 wheel burn outs all day long!! Was a nice ride, while still being luxory orientated. Was a definate sleeper for those not in the know.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman


Those calculated kinematic viscosity numbers from blending RL 0w30 and 0w40 are close to what you get with plain GC (American Syntec 0w30): KV40=72, KV100=12.2

HTHS is significantly better.



GC is actually 12.2, 67.2, with HTHS of 3.5-3.6 (supposedly).

And I just noticed my math was backwards.


50:50 Redline 0w30 & 0w40 12.8 67.7 3.58
40:60 Redline 0w30 & 0w40 13.2 70.2 3.66
30:70 Redline 0w30 & 0w40 13.7 72.7 3.74


Going heavier on the 0w30 drops the HTHS below the mfg miminum of 3.5.


To date the best 5w30 KV/HTHS spread I've seen is Motul's 300V 5w30. 11.0, 65.0, HTHS = 3.61! The VI is 167 and TBN is 11.8 (due to high ester content). That's [censored] impressive.

 

[bluesubie]

Jeff - Congrats on deciding! Don't be alarmed if your first uoa shows high wear. It might be from the cleaning the esters are doing.

Dan - What do you mean by best? RL 5W-30 is thinner with a higher HTHS. Although, 300V's VI is higher.

-Dennis

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Dan - What do you mean by best? RL 5W-30 is thinner with a higher HTHS. Although, 300V's VI is higher.


Yep

Motul 300V 5W-30 - 11.0, 65.0, HTHS 3.61, VI 167
Red Line 5W-30 - 10.6, 62, HTHS 3.8, VI 162

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: A_Harman


Those calculated kinematic viscosity numbers from blending RL 0w30 and 0w40 are close to what you get with plain GC (American Syntec 0w30): KV40=72, KV100=12.2

HTHS is significantly better.



GC is actually 12.2, 67.2, with HTHS of 3.5-3.6 (supposedly).

And I just noticed my math was backwards.


50:50 Redline 0w30 & 0w40 12.8 67.7 3.58
40:60 Redline 0w30 & 0w40 13.2 70.2 3.66
30:70 Redline 0w30 & 0w40 13.7 72.7 3.74


Going heavier on the 0w30 drops the HTHS below the mfg miminum of 3.5.


To date the best 5w30 KV/HTHS spread I've seen is Motul's 300V 5w30. 11.0, 65.0, HTHS = 3.61! The VI is 167 and TBN is 11.8 (due to high ester content). That's [censored] impressive.


I just doublechecked, and the viscosity at 40C for GC is indeed 72cSt. I think you were looking at the 210F SUS viscosity, which is 67.2.

I also don't like the way Castrol reports the HTHS viscosity. In their American spec sheet, they only report minimums that are required by API specs, so it lists 2.9. Comparable oils in the European spec sheets report HTHS of 3.5, that I am assuming is the result of actual tests.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I almost went with the GC, but in the end it was actually easier just to order the Redline oil. Every time I would go to the store for GC on sale it was sold out, or they didn't have any on order. I asked the store if they take rain checks and they said no.

Then when the store finally got some in, of course it was off sale and it sells for $8 per qt. I paid $8.49 a qt for the Redline 5/30. Granted I had to pay $12 in shipping charges, which ups that ante, but how much gas I used going back and forth to the store??

I guess you could buy it and store it, but I don't like to store oil in my garage. I did that years back when I would order Amsoil by the case. In the summer time when my garage was about 125F the bottles would leak oil all over the place. What a mess that was. So I prefer now to buy when I need it.

The only downside to the Redline is having to order it. Price is a wash to me, both oils are inconvient to obtain, so I just ordered the Redline and will order just waht I need. I am a fan of the GC oil though great product. Just not a great deal unless you get it on sale and the store actually has some.

 

[dparm]

Aren't there any local suppliers for Redline? There's several near me, though you must order by the case and pick it up from them.

BTW good catch that Redline 5w30 beats 300V, hadn't even looked at that. It's a bit on the thin side for my car (even the 300V would be pushing it), though it would still be okay since it doesn't shear much. Though from my current 300V 5w40 fill I'm amazed at how it has virtually no shear or viscosity loss after 2500 hard miles that included track time and lots of stop-go city driving.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

No Local dealers in my area. I live in a rural area in the SoCal desert. Closest retailer is in San Diego, which is 130 miles away. Redline is in the Bay area of CA and shipping to me was not bad. We will see how the Redline does in my Evo. I will get bashed all over the Evo boards for using a 5/30 in the Evo, but then again, the guys on the Evo forums really dont get oil, thats why I come here.

Jeff

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Jeff.

RL 5W-30 is thinner with a higher HTHS. Although, 300V's VI is higher.

-Dennis

RL 5W-30 is NOT thinner than GC at any temperature. That's a common misinterpretation of an oil's viscosity stat's. It is the HTHS vis' spec' that determines how thick or thin an oil is even at 100C and therefore it trump's the KV100 spec'.
I've actually tested both these oils and you will realize about 5% higher oil pressure with RL vs GC at 95C. For more details you can read my post below:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2004057&page=5

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Jeff.

RL 5W-30 is thinner with a higher HTHS. Although, 300V's VI is higher.

-Dennis

RL 5W-30 is NOT thinner than GC at any temperature.


RL 5W-30 is thinner than GC until subjected to heat and shear. To clarify my meaning for those who want it, at temp the RL will be thicker in the oil pump, rod/main bearings, and rings but thinner in the oil return galleys, pan and valve-train. I believe there will be some advantages for an oil that has a relatively high HTHS vis. and relatively low KV, especially for high RPM and/or multi-valve OHC engines. JMO...

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

From what I have read in the link provided above, and from info gathered of late, seems my choosing of Redline 5/30 for my Evo was a very good choice.

I will keep you guys and gals posted as I do some lab work on the oil (VOA and UOA's).

I am nervous, but excited about trying this oil out. Its like starting a new job. You know it may be better, but your still get the jitters being new. Hope that analogy makes sense?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Jeff.

RL 5W-30 is thinner with a higher HTHS. Although, 300V's VI is higher.

-Dennis

RL 5W-30 is NOT thinner than GC at any temperature.


RL 5W-30 is thinner than GC until subjected to heat and shear. To clarify my meaning for those who want it, at temp the RL will be thicker in the oil pump, rod/main bearings, and rings but thinner in the oil return galleys, pan and valve-train. I believe there will be some advantages for an oil that has a relatively high HTHS vis. and relatively low KV, especially for high RPM and/or multi-valve OHC engines. JMO...

At operating temp's the kinematic difference in viscosity between a 11cSt and a 12 or 13cSt or even a 25cSt oil is insignificant in term of oil flow in the unpressurized oil return galleys and valve-train area. To the naked eye they will all have the consistency of kerosene.

If you know the HTHS vis of an oil, the KV100 spec' has no useful meaning in terms of how thick or thin an oil is terms of it's operational viscosity.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
If you know the HTHS vis of an oil, the KV100 spec' has no useful meaning in terms of how thick or thin an oil is terms of it's operational viscosity.


Some of the Comp Eliminator guys would disagree, as oil drain-back is a big part of the reason they run 10-weights instead of 20-weights. I read an interview with John Mihovetz some years ago where he described the oiling issues with his high high-rpm Ford 4.6 4V 2500 HP drag car. He installed glass windows on the timing chain cover and cam cover to observe oil flow, and at high rpm the timing chain was acting as an escalator from the pan to the right cylinder where the oil was backing up in that cylinder head, simultaneously causing oil starvation concerns and a frothy mess (parasitic losses) in that cylinder head's valve-train. A big part of the fix here was to use a 0W-10 oil.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

All I know is the GC oil is not that easy to get a hold of at that cheap sale price. I mean its out there, but I have to drive 40 miles to find it. For the money saved on fuel looking for the GC, I can have the Redline shipped to my door.

I think I made the right choice with Redline, Time will tell, also I am helping out a local company. Trust me, if you have a business in CA you need all the help you can get!! haha.

 

[dparm]

No doubt. A lot of us are just more of the tinkering variety that experiment with various oils.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: dparm
No doubt. A lot of us are just more of the tinkering variety that experiment with various oils.


I do the experimenting but on a different stage. Here in BITOG its all about UOA's, my testing is done on the dyno. Trust me, if you change an oil and you see an improvement in Oil Temps, Oil Pressure, HP, TQ, Turbo Spool, I mean you see it. The ECU in the car will tell you everything. That is my proving ground.

That and getting groceries and driving kids around like everyone else haha.

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Jeff.

RL 5W-30 is thinner with a higher HTHS. Although, 300V's VI is higher.

-Dennis

RL 5W-30 is NOT thinner than GC at any temperature. That's a common misinterpretation of an oil's viscosity stat's. It is the HTHS vis' spec' that determines how thick or thin an oil is even at 100C and therefore it trump's the KV100 spec'.
I've actually tested both these oils and you will realize about 5% higher oil pressure with RL vs GC at 95C. For more details you can read my post below:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2004057&page=5


Just want to point out, the poster you quoted wasn't talking about GC. He was replying to a post about Motul 300v having a larger spread than Redline at 5w30 not GC. Cool about GC though, I just put some in my car last night and am going to pick some more up at AZ with their GC _ K&N special.