I just might.
Redline—has anyone figured this stuff out?
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I am now running RL 5W30 in my 2003 GT Mustang w/ 4.6L 300+ HP engine (a few mods.).
I've been running nothing but Red Line since the first 1000 mile oil change with the same great results. Now I am about to change the oil for the fourth time (15,000 miles).
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in regards to water wetter...you must add another bottle every 15,000 miles.
I have drag raced beating camero SS, dodge srt-4s, BMW M5s, WRX-STIs, and the likes of which.The engine, rear-end, coolant system, and gas-tank are filled w/ red line products. The tremec tranny is filled w/ GM synchromesh, for teh Red Line D4 ATF can cause synchro wear due to a reaction with the carbon-fiber synchro rings (t-3650 tranny).
[ July 07, 2004, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: mf150 ]
I've been running nothing but Red Line since the first 1000 mile oil change with the same great results. Now I am about to change the oil for the fourth time (15,000 miles).
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in regards to water wetter...you must add another bottle every 15,000 miles.
I have drag raced beating camero SS, dodge srt-4s, BMW M5s, WRX-STIs, and the likes of which.The engine, rear-end, coolant system, and gas-tank are filled w/ red line products. The tremec tranny is filled w/ GM synchromesh, for teh Red Line D4 ATF can cause synchro wear due to a reaction with the carbon-fiber synchro rings (t-3650 tranny).
[ July 07, 2004, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: mf150 ]
The RL 5W40 'sleeper' has to be one of the best oils available IMO. Pity a few more don't try it but I guess the 40W puts off the majority in US/Canada? Looks like it is superior to GC in this application at least.
Am early into fourth run on REDLINE 10W-30 in 2001 Jeep Cherokee.
May be driving quite a bit more than usual in the next few months which would make next analysis sooner than the October date I expected. (8000 miles per OCI).
Can tell you this, though: at third change pulled magnetic drain plug and found nothing on it -- maybe enough to be covered by two pin heads -- never had that happen in over thirty years of changing oil.
RL and FUEL POWER are a combo I like. I'm hoping that this is the combination I've been wanting: a brand-new engine for over 150k.
May be driving quite a bit more than usual in the next few months which would make next analysis sooner than the October date I expected. (8000 miles per OCI).
Can tell you this, though: at third change pulled magnetic drain plug and found nothing on it -- maybe enough to be covered by two pin heads -- never had that happen in over thirty years of changing oil.
RL and FUEL POWER are a combo I like. I'm hoping that this is the combination I've been wanting: a brand-new engine for over 150k.
OK, Blackstone was great!
Report:
" No problems showed up in the initial sample from your Suby. Almost all wear read at or below
averages for this type of engine, which is a very good indication of normal wearing parts and
especially good since this oil was run longer than average. Universal averages show normal wear
after about 5,500 miles on the oil. The TBN was strong at 4.3. At 18,000 total miles, everything looks great. Suggest going 10,000 on the next oil. Amended report with a TBN."
In answer to an email:
"Paul: Redline doesn't have any unique qualities that we know of that would make it any harder to analyze. It does use a lot of silicon as an
anti-foaming additive (at about 17-18 ppm in the virgin oil), so I would not be too concerned about the level in your sample.
We did you TBN last night and it was 4.3. This is a normal reading and shows the oil itself still has plenty of active additive left. We don't worry about the TBN until it drops down to 1.0 or
less"
So, it seems to me that the Redline 5W-40 did produce a better Subaru 2.5L UOA.
The few Mobil 1 10W-30 and Tech2000 10W-30 samples I could find on other 2.5 liter 4Cyl late model Subaru engines had higher Lead, Aluminum, and Iron ......at least when I did a linear extrapolation on the ppm numbers at the mileage sampled and calculated out to 8000 miles.
And the Redline stayed at stable viscosity of 40 wt...while the other oils sheared down to 20 wt. Except for the Mobil 1 10W-30 mix that had some some 5W-40 added to it, along with other makeup oil.
I did find a GC 0W-30 today that stayed in grade, but dropped to 3.4TBN.
corrected to 8K
-----------GC 0W-30 --------- RL 5W-40
makeup oil .75qt---------------- 0
AL ---------6.4----------------- 2
Iron------- 10.9*--------------- 6
Lead -------3.14---------------- 3
Copper------6------------------ 5
Chromium---1.6----------------- 1
TBN --------3.4**--------------4.3***
*after I corrected for Fe in GC VOA
** at 5083 miles , uncorrected
*** at 8000 miles , uncorrected
Report:
" No problems showed up in the initial sample from your Suby. Almost all wear read at or below
averages for this type of engine, which is a very good indication of normal wearing parts and
especially good since this oil was run longer than average. Universal averages show normal wear
after about 5,500 miles on the oil. The TBN was strong at 4.3. At 18,000 total miles, everything looks great. Suggest going 10,000 on the next oil. Amended report with a TBN."
In answer to an email:
"Paul: Redline doesn't have any unique qualities that we know of that would make it any harder to analyze. It does use a lot of silicon as an
anti-foaming additive (at about 17-18 ppm in the virgin oil), so I would not be too concerned about the level in your sample.
We did you TBN last night and it was 4.3. This is a normal reading and shows the oil itself still has plenty of active additive left. We don't worry about the TBN until it drops down to 1.0 or
less"
So, it seems to me that the Redline 5W-40 did produce a better Subaru 2.5L UOA.
The few Mobil 1 10W-30 and Tech2000 10W-30 samples I could find on other 2.5 liter 4Cyl late model Subaru engines had higher Lead, Aluminum, and Iron ......at least when I did a linear extrapolation on the ppm numbers at the mileage sampled and calculated out to 8000 miles.
And the Redline stayed at stable viscosity of 40 wt...while the other oils sheared down to 20 wt. Except for the Mobil 1 10W-30 mix that had some some 5W-40 added to it, along with other makeup oil.
I did find a GC 0W-30 today that stayed in grade, but dropped to 3.4TBN.
corrected to 8K
-----------GC 0W-30 --------- RL 5W-40
makeup oil .75qt---------------- 0
AL ---------6.4----------------- 2
Iron------- 10.9*--------------- 6
Lead -------3.14---------------- 3
Copper------6------------------ 5
Chromium---1.6----------------- 1
TBN --------3.4**--------------4.3***
*after I corrected for Fe in GC VOA
** at 5083 miles , uncorrected
*** at 8000 miles , uncorrected
FWIW, RedLine is only $7 to $9 per quart in Southern California at smaller racing shops (Costa Mesa and San Diego, respectively in that low-high price range), making it an easier choice to swallow over other oils like M1 and Castrol Syntec at $4-$5/qt.
-James
-James
Also, I codrive an autocross car with Paul Bonnacorsi (SPEED World Challenge Mazda Protege), and they only used RedLine in their Tri-Point Engineering engines that were tuned to within and inch of their lives...they blew up because the way they were build, not because of the oil--the oil was the only consistent element that held together in their engines and transmissions!
However, in his Showroom Stock Mazdas, the use of Redline was eating through catalytic converters and O2 sensors (same in the World Challenge cars, actually) which may cause problems in street cars over a long period of time.
-james
However, in his Showroom Stock Mazdas, the use of Redline was eating through catalytic converters and O2 sensors (same in the World Challenge cars, actually) which may cause problems in street cars over a long period of time.
-james
Hi, I don't understand how Red Line could destroy cats. and O2 sensors. Please elaborate further. Sounds fishy to me.
Man, that's a good saying, psyche... I mean totally.quote:
Originally posted by pscholte:
Buster, Buster, Buster,quote:
Originally posted by buster:
Usually when I give my opinion, the opposite ends up being true. So it's most likely a great oil.
Be kind to yourself...you know, like totally at one with your mellower inner consciousness, like, you know, like totally...you know?
MVOF
MolaKule
Staff member
I have to extend the valid question MF150 asked.
Just how would Redline eat through anything?
I asked him (Bonnacorsi) and he said that the engines do consume a little oil no matter what the brand, but Tri-Point had been doing testing of Redline vs Valvoline Racing Oils (sponsor of SCCA ProRacing), and in long-term racing and in the team's personal vehicles, the catalytic converters were degrading and melting and the O2 sensors were worn out and displaying codes consistenly in 6-10 different vehicles under different uses, albiet over a long period of time (They had been working with Redline using oil analysis, but results on those have not been compiled and released back to Tri-Point as of yet). When they ran Valvoline after tearing down the engines and replacing cats and sensors, the same problems did not occur within the same mileage and product age...switch back to Redline, and the cats and sensors wore again...this is with the Racing oils, not the street formulas, and these cars arent exactly babied, so who knows. Combine that with the use of the series-spec Sunoco GT 100 race gas, that may change the results as well-- but then again under the same conditions the Valvoline Race did not display those bad symptoms. Wear may be a different issue, but since they tear down the engines 4-6 times a year anyway, who knows.
I'll see Bonnacorsi again this weekend, I'll ask further if anyone has any other questions.
-James
I'll see Bonnacorsi again this weekend, I'll ask further if anyone has any other questions.
-James
PS-- Tri-Point recommends Valvoline VR1 20w-50 in their STREET rotary engines (no pre-mix, factory Mazda oil metering pump), but use Redline in the RACE engines (no cats) and also use 2-cycle pre-mix with the Sunoco race gas and disable the oil metering system.
-James
-James
I've used Redline 10w-30 in my truck and it seems to run pretty well on it. I'm a little apprehensive about the high phosphorous and zinc levels in it and their supposed poisoning of catalytic converters. The formulation looks like it would make a really tough racing oil for sure. I do like to add a quart of it to a batch of Mobil 1 to bring the additive levels up a bit. Has anyone here actually had a converter go bad from a motor oil?
Well if the Redline has ultra low oil consumption, it will probably cause LESS poisoning than other oils.
It should matter how much ZDDP is in the oil if the oil doesn't get past the rings.
Typo Would I could edit
It should have read :
It should NOT matter how much ZDDP is in the oil if the oil doesn't get past the rings.
It should have read :
It should NOT matter how much ZDDP is in the oil if the oil doesn't get past the rings.
Thatwouldbegreat: Your July 6 post shows 1080 ppm of zinc for the RL. Wow, one quart of RL mixed with the average SL oil would about quadruple the zinc levels. This will make a great additive, maybe only need a half quart and will be the cure for the new SM oils.
I'm glad we agree on this point, and this has come up in the articles in industry magazines on drafting new standards.
Automakers and EPA want low levels of traditional antiwear additves...perhaps they want to 'idiot proof' the ways consumers maintain their vehicles and protect the emission control systems as their highest priority.
Understandable, since EPA's main interests, however myopic, are emissions....and automakers have certain warranty exposures.
But oil forumulators worry about backwards compatibilty, multiple product inventories if there is a 'new car' and an 'old car' formula, and educating the consumer if oil formulas are no longer universal.
The consumer is really not represented in these discussions.
Automakers and EPA would love older cars to go away. And if newer cars continue to get better, safer, cleaner , and more fuel efficient...maybe the older cars should go away.
But that is quite a hardship for many families.
IMHO, in oils that keep rings clean and have low volatiltiy, and have good solvency for additives..... there is ultra low risk of causing shortened life spans of emission control systems.
I suspect that ILASC GF-4 and API SM will still end up as a better oil standard, and everyday 'off the shelf' oils will get even closer to the best of the premium oils.
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