Redline—has anyone figured this stuff out?
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only comment I wish to make is about the RL Water Wetter sludging up in cooling systems. What occurs with W.W. is not sludge, it does produce a brownish percipitate when the coolant cools down. I've spoken with Redline about this on my other Hondas as I was worried that it was motor oil and coming from a gasket leak. But they verified that W.W. causes a brown percipitate that resembles motor oil in appearance, it only occurs when the fluid is cold and you notice it in the overflow tank. They confirmed with me that it is harmless, and is compatible with Honda coolant, as well as other coolants. They also confirmed with me that W.W. does not contain silicates in case any one is interested.
I'm still running RL W.W. on my new Civic.
Joey
I'm still running RL W.W. on my new Civic.
Joey
Good post this one IMO. I use RL gear oils and will whatever the cost as qtys are negligible. I know of a Road Train (triple header semi) that runs huge mileage Port Hedland WA to Darwin w/RL and seeing up 40C lower g'box/diff temps and o'hauls greatly reduced. Economy better too. I know Jim Jones at TRACO Engineering (US race eng builder) said all their clients use syn but they can always tell who uses RL when they come back for rebuild after all have run identical 24hr race. The 5W30 UOA mentioned above is good and there's one as good from RL 5W40 in a turbo here somewhere. Extended drains? well the jury still out on that IMO. Like the products, not so keen on the price.
Water Wetter is a great product to add to your coolant. Someone above stated that they'd have to think twice about adding it to their coolant system-- well, I did, too then I tried it. Up to 20*F cooler and it prevents electrolysis.
Same goes for Red Line SI-1 Fuel system cleaner. In my experience, Red Line's product does a better job at cleaning in one application than even Techron.
Over all, the Red Line motor oil is top notch in real world applications (ie traffic, heat and other extremes). I have been running Red Line for nearly 20,000 miles in my F-150 4.6L and recently I had teh head taken off the block (HG leak). Teh mechanic mentioned how clean my engine was compared to others he had seen.
I'm sold on these products.
Same goes for Red Line SI-1 Fuel system cleaner. In my experience, Red Line's product does a better job at cleaning in one application than even Techron.
Over all, the Red Line motor oil is top notch in real world applications (ie traffic, heat and other extremes). I have been running Red Line for nearly 20,000 miles in my F-150 4.6L and recently I had teh head taken off the block (HG leak). Teh mechanic mentioned how clean my engine was compared to others he had seen.
I'm sold on these products.
"A long time ago Redline (and perhaps Torco as well) were considered THE race engine oils. Is Redline still really big or has it become small time?"
In SCCA racing (scca.org for more info), the #1 name among the competitors is Red Line Oil. But, you'll see Valvoline contingency stickers out there as well, especially during the Valvoline Run-Offs in the fall, aired on Speed Channel the following winter.
"And what about Torco-never seem to hear about them anymore."
I associate Torco (and NEO) with drag racing, especially import drag racing.
--- Bror Jace
In SCCA racing (scca.org for more info), the #1 name among the competitors is Red Line Oil. But, you'll see Valvoline contingency stickers out there as well, especially during the Valvoline Run-Offs in the fall, aired on Speed Channel the following winter.
"And what about Torco-never seem to hear about them anymore."
I associate Torco (and NEO) with drag racing, especially import drag racing.
--- Bror Jace
Thanks, everyone, for all the input!
There've been enough positive comments on the Redline for me to suspect that it might actually be pretty good stuff after all.
I'll continue using the 5W30, doing 4K drain intervals, and will post some UOA's hopefully in the near future.
[ July 08, 2003, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]
There've been enough positive comments on the Redline for me to suspect that it might actually be pretty good stuff after all.
I'll continue using the 5W30, doing 4K drain intervals, and will post some UOA's hopefully in the near future.
[ July 08, 2003, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]
Actually the reports about MTL I heard were from Nissan and Mazda Miata forums
Well, I've a 2001SE Miata and '97 Maxima SE 5-speed and hang on forums for these cars. Majority consensus is for Redline. MT-90 meets these car's OEM spec and is GL4. Most of what I hear regarding attacking the syncros is in regards to a GL5 grade on bronze syncros. That is, the neat thing about Reline is it is a GL4 grade which is darn hard to find.
To date, my one UOA on MT90 was in the Max, with 25k miles on sample, 97k miles on unit and was quite good (posted in UOA section). The gear oil price is very moderate. So much so that I usually halve (or less) the manufacturers recommended change intervals. Then again, I like my machinery to be ready and willing.
Well, I've a 2001SE Miata and '97 Maxima SE 5-speed and hang on forums for these cars. Majority consensus is for Redline. MT-90 meets these car's OEM spec and is GL4. Most of what I hear regarding attacking the syncros is in regards to a GL5 grade on bronze syncros. That is, the neat thing about Reline is it is a GL4 grade which is darn hard to find.
To date, my one UOA on MT90 was in the Max, with 25k miles on sample, 97k miles on unit and was quite good (posted in UOA section). The gear oil price is very moderate. So much so that I usually halve (or less) the manufacturers recommended change intervals. Then again, I like my machinery to be ready and willing.
I've been using Red Line 10W30 in my '97 Escort wagon for over 100,000 miles. The car now has 220,000 miles. The oil is changed every 6,000 miles; the filter, every 3,000 miles. Haven't had any analysis done, but I can tell you that the valvetrain area and the inside of the valve cover that is visible when the oil filler cap is removed are all squeaky clean. The car uses no oil.
My driving is 90% highway and my car goes roughly 35,000 miles a year. As you can guess, I have been through numerous oil changes with Red Line. Wish I'd switched long before I did. But I'll bet many of you are laughing your butts off at the thought of someone with an Escort using Red Line.
Go ahead and laugh. I also use Water Wetter, SI-1, and D-4 ATF in the 5-speed gearbox (which had Mercon ATF from the factory, not gear oil). I'll bet mechanically my car is in much better shape than many other Escorts the same vintage with a quarter of the mileage.
The late Smokey Yunick's "All Proof", shown in his book Power Secrets, was the forerunner to Red Line. This came up on a long-departed link to the Triumph Owner's Club containing a transcript of a talk that a Red Line engineer gave to that group, and the name All Proof happened to appear on a chart that was reproduced with the transcript. I confirmed with Red Line that the racing oil had formerly been known as All Proof.
I'm sold on Red Line.
[ July 09, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: ekrampitzjr ]
My driving is 90% highway and my car goes roughly 35,000 miles a year. As you can guess, I have been through numerous oil changes with Red Line. Wish I'd switched long before I did. But I'll bet many of you are laughing your butts off at the thought of someone with an Escort using Red Line.
The late Smokey Yunick's "All Proof", shown in his book Power Secrets, was the forerunner to Red Line. This came up on a long-departed link to the Triumph Owner's Club containing a transcript of a talk that a Red Line engineer gave to that group, and the name All Proof happened to appear on a chart that was reproduced with the transcript. I confirmed with Red Line that the racing oil had formerly been known as All Proof.
I'm sold on Red Line.
[ July 09, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: ekrampitzjr ]
Patman
Staff member
That's ok, BOBISTHEOILGUY owns an Escort wagon too, and I've often told him he was crazy for trying to extend the life out of that little car!
quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
BTW,
I have sent in a sample of Redline 10W30 for analysis and will post it here. My plans are to use Chevron Supreme 10W30 dino in the next run and attempt to duplicate some of the results from others on the board using the same oil and engine in the Nissan K24DE engine.
I will then compare cost vs. performance and board members can draw then draw their own conclusions. This may take the rest of the summer to complete, so don't expect instant gratification!
I am curious to see the results of this test as I have extreme interest in the cost vs performance part of the equation when lubing our engines .
I did a search but came up empty . Can someone point me in the right direction to see the results ?
I use MT90 gear oil in my 93 MX6 V6, so far no problems at all. That's because it's 75w90 GL4, exactly as recommended by Mazda.
As far as Redline engine oils, well as above, it's very pricey in Australia. If I want or need an Ester based race oil, I'll choose Motul 300V, which is slightly cheaper and far more easy to obtain (in this country).
I've come across posts on the web in the past, among the camaro/firebird/corvette crowd where owners were stating manual transmission problems either when using or after using Redline MTL. This is on the Tremec 6-speed T-56 transmission, common to all these cars. It is always easy to conclude it was the fluid's fault, but if you look at things objectively, like one corvette owner I remember who lost a tranmission. However, he autocrossed the car. So was it really the fluids fault? Or is it more likely the fault of the components in the transmission? And I've seen many others post, in addition, which are questions like how do I check for bent pushrods. Which means they're beating the **** out of the car, so parts that are designed to wear (synchronizers) wear faster and fail-> not do to the fluid but use and abuse and/or the compounding of mechanical problems. No fluid will make a piece of equipment last forever; they will all have their problems no matter which fluid you use as the lubricant.quote:
Originally posted by Leo:
Actually the reports about MTL I heard were from Nissan and Mazda Miata forumsBut I dont trust everything I read, just take it with a grain of salt.
So like you said, you have to be careful how you interpret people's statements, especially on the web.
I have not seen Red Line MTL damage a synchro either. I think people got mixed up with some of the synthetic ATF's in the 2003 SVT Cobra, which was the first use of carbon synchros in the TTC T-56 tranny. The synoil ATF's were too lubricious, and there were reports of "glazing" of the synchro blocking rings.
In the 2004 Honda S2000, the yellow metal syncros were replaced with carbon types, so I was very wary of recommending any other fluids than Honda's until i did some more analysis.
The Honda S2000 recommends Honda MTF, which is essentially a high ZDDP (fortified) engine oil, or light gear oil of 75w80w range. It has about 450 ppm of calcium, which I assume is the friction modifier to provide good syncro action. The VOA of Red Line that was published here showed Red Line MTL to have the same vis as Honda's product, and almost exactly the same calcium level! I changed out the MTF for Red Line MTL, looking to get longer drain intervals, and i have found that the shift action is fine, possibly improved over Honda's MTF in the same tranny. I will certainly post again if I have synchcro problems, but given the chemical analysis, i do not foresee any.
I hope this helps explain where some of these stories get started, and at least one documented case of an oil analyst (me) with mehcnaical skills applying a real-world use of RL with no problems so far.
I just changed my valvoline durablend ATF in my Camaro V6's Tremec 5-speed to Redline high-temp ATF and it shifts and sounds far better. 20,000 miles on the durablend.
I also changed the rear valvoline gear oil to heavy duty RL shockproof, and it seems great too. The stuff was so thick though it almost broke my mityvac pump
Im happy about both oils, but I believe RL is just too expensive to run in an engine where the oil is changed so frequently!
I also changed the rear valvoline gear oil to heavy duty RL shockproof, and it seems great too. The stuff was so thick though it almost broke my mityvac pump
Im happy about both oils, but I believe RL is just too expensive to run in an engine where the oil is changed so frequently!
I've used Redline products for many years, and while I think that Mobil 1 is an excellent product..the Redlne is better.
The engines run better on Redline and I could hear it, feel it , measure it by oil temp and mileage.
I posted an 8K UOA recently.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001686
The engines run better on Redline and I could hear it, feel it , measure it by oil temp and mileage.
I posted an 8K UOA recently.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001686
Thatwouldbegreat, if we saw Redline results on a consistant basis that looked good.
But we havn't. Could be for many reasons. Redline has a good reputation. Some say it's marketing, some say it's just a great oil. I think like others have said, it's a good racing oil. Not so sure how good of a daily driver oil it is, yet. NASCAR doesn't use much RL, nor does F1 from what I've read. Usually when I give my opinion, the opposite ends up being true. So it's most likely a great oil.
[ July 05, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ July 05, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Buster, Buster, Buster,quote:
Originally posted by buster:
Usually when I give my opinion, the opposite ends up being true. So it's most likely a great oil.
Be kind to yourself...you know, like totally at one with your mellower inner consciousness, like, you know, like totally...you know?
[ July 05, 2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
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