This is the first I've heard of ZDDP causing wear as well. Yes, is is true that too much could damage the catalytic converter and O2 sensors if you have significant blow-by or burning oil...
Question about engine oil
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As best as I can remember, GM has warned about excessive levels. I recall reading something in Popular Mechanics years ago, too. Comp Cams warns against it, too. The issue came to light in the early 1970s, if I recall correctly, long before catalytic converters came about. If Mola, Doug, Richard, or a few others happen by this thread, I'm sure they have substantial knowledge and experience in this matter.
ok am i correct here
the level of zinc and phosphorus in this oil is around 1774 ppm and 1347 ppm.
A zddp element or atom or whatever contains two phosphorus to 1 zinc (2:1)
so in this case it would be phosphorus/2 + zinc levels= answer/2= zddp
so now i think its around 1200zddp. Am i correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
And the s13 is similar to the 180sx not the 240
the level of zinc and phosphorus in this oil is around 1774 ppm and 1347 ppm.
A zddp element or atom or whatever contains two phosphorus to 1 zinc (2:1)
so in this case it would be phosphorus/2 + zinc levels= answer/2= zddp
so now i think its around 1200zddp. Am i correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
And the s13 is similar to the 180sx not the 240
Last edited:
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Use Royal Purple HPS 10W40.
RP oils have Zn and Ph around 1200ppm each and not 1500ppm.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
How you all would rate the API version of RP?
It's nothing special. Basically Valvoline SynPower with Purple dye. Nothing wrong with it, but RP's price is a bit high for what you are getting.
Whoa, not that not even close. VI of RP is significantly higher than synpower. And, zddp is much higher even in the API rated R.P.
Royal Purple (api) version is a superior oil to synpower.
Royal Purple oils (API) or even better HPS are superior to any OTC oil...I.E. Mobil -1. Only exception would be sustina...but, its not easy to find.
Now, nothing wrong with synpower. at all. But, RP certainly does have a better add pack. It just is simply a better oil.
If i didnt use R.P. I would recommend Castrol Edge It too is a superior oil to the other OTC oils.
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
How you all would rate the API version of RP?
It's nothing special. Basically Valvoline SynPower with Purple dye. Nothing wrong with it, but RP's price is a bit high for what you are getting.
Whoa, not that not even close. VI of RP is significantly higher than synpower. And, zddp is much higher even in the API rated R.P.
Royal Purple (api) version is a superior oil to synpower.
Royal Purple oils (API) or even better HPS are superior to any OTC oil...I.E. Mobil -1. Only exception would be sustina...but, its not easy to find.
Now, nothing wrong with synpower. at all. But, RP certainly does have a better add pack. It just is simply a better oil.
If i didnt use R.P. I would recommend Castrol Edge It too is a superior oil to the other OTC oils.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: AP9
This is the first I've heard of ZDDP causing wear as well. Yes, is is true that too much could damage the catalytic converter and O2 sensors if you have significant blow-by or burning oil...
One would have to have a major oil leak for it to cause any issues. I have never heard of anyone losing a cat converter or 02 sensor while using say HPS oil Royal Purple. And , I mean a pretty darn bad leak.
I know that the API Royal Purple has much more ZDDP than any OTC oil. Castrol Edge may be a somewhat close 2nd.
Both have Somewhat less than in the HPS. I believe 26% less if I recall from the specs.
This is the first I've heard of ZDDP causing wear as well. Yes, is is true that too much could damage the catalytic converter and O2 sensors if you have significant blow-by or burning oil...
One would have to have a major oil leak for it to cause any issues. I have never heard of anyone losing a cat converter or 02 sensor while using say HPS oil Royal Purple. And , I mean a pretty darn bad leak.
I know that the API Royal Purple has much more ZDDP than any OTC oil. Castrol Edge may be a somewhat close 2nd.
Both have Somewhat less than in the HPS. I believe 26% less if I recall from the specs.
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Originally Posted By: Nissan101
lol nope i have no idea what oil is spec'ed for my vehicle...are there any rp fan boys or people who knows alot about RP.
I got advised that the levels on zddp was too high for my engine...and it is already broke in already so we(the mechanic and myself) are saying that this oil is wrong because of the super high levels off zddp.
How you all would rate the API version of RP?
Royal Purple does make good products. Their VI is generally in the 160 to 179 range, not anything special or that high at all. I don't think they are any better than Valvoline synpower, Mobil1, Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State Ultimate D, and certainly not any better than Amsoil, judging from years of UOAs. (RP just does great marketing, as purple dye is cool to some.)
For that turbo engine in the Caribbean climate, use 10w-30 if you're not driving too hard, and go to 5w-40 if you're really pushing it. The higher zinc levels in the HPS oil are not a problem (above about 2,000 ppm zinc is a problem for spalling) unless your car is using more than about 1 quart of oil in 4,000 miles where the Phosph could kill the catalytic convertor. So you could use the API RP oils to preserve the cat.
Originally Posted By: Donald
If the oil is spec'ed for your vehicle and a name brand (not "Joes Value Motor Oil") you will be fine.
I like that answer. Yes, any big name brand oil. And 10w-30 or 5w-40 is great for a turbo engine like that.
lol nope i have no idea what oil is spec'ed for my vehicle...are there any rp fan boys or people who knows alot about RP.
I got advised that the levels on zddp was too high for my engine...and it is already broke in already so we(the mechanic and myself) are saying that this oil is wrong because of the super high levels off zddp.
How you all would rate the API version of RP?
Royal Purple does make good products. Their VI is generally in the 160 to 179 range, not anything special or that high at all. I don't think they are any better than Valvoline synpower, Mobil1, Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State Ultimate D, and certainly not any better than Amsoil, judging from years of UOAs. (RP just does great marketing, as purple dye is cool to some.)
For that turbo engine in the Caribbean climate, use 10w-30 if you're not driving too hard, and go to 5w-40 if you're really pushing it. The higher zinc levels in the HPS oil are not a problem (above about 2,000 ppm zinc is a problem for spalling) unless your car is using more than about 1 quart of oil in 4,000 miles where the Phosph could kill the catalytic convertor. So you could use the API RP oils to preserve the cat.
Originally Posted By: Donald
If the oil is spec'ed for your vehicle and a name brand (not "Joes Value Motor Oil") you will be fine.
I like that answer. Yes, any big name brand oil. And 10w-30 or 5w-40 is great for a turbo engine like that.
2000th post
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
ok am i correct here
the level of zinc and phosphorus in this oil is around 1774 ppm and 1347 ppm.
A zddp element or atom or whatever contains two phosphorus to 1 zinc (2:1)
so in this case it would be phosphorus/2 + zinc levels= answer/2= zddp
so now i think its around 1200zddp. Am i correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
And the s13 is similar to the 180sx not the 240
No, there are many other atoms in the ZDDP molecule than just zinc and phosphorus. The industry specifications are written around the % of phosphorus in the finished motor oil. The zinc level is typically about 6% higher than the phosphorus level, but most testing labs show the zinc about 10-12% higher.
Tom NJ
ok am i correct here
the level of zinc and phosphorus in this oil is around 1774 ppm and 1347 ppm.
A zddp element or atom or whatever contains two phosphorus to 1 zinc (2:1)
so in this case it would be phosphorus/2 + zinc levels= answer/2= zddp
so now i think its around 1200zddp. Am i correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
And the s13 is similar to the 180sx not the 240
No, there are many other atoms in the ZDDP molecule than just zinc and phosphorus. The industry specifications are written around the % of phosphorus in the finished motor oil. The zinc level is typically about 6% higher than the phosphorus level, but most testing labs show the zinc about 10-12% higher.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
ok am i correct here
the level of zinc and phosphorus in this oil is around 1774 ppm and 1347 ppm.
A zddp element or atom or whatever contains two phosphorus to 1 zinc (2:1)
so in this case it would be phosphorus/2 + zinc levels= answer/2= zddp
so now i think its around 1200zddp. Am i correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
And the s13 is similar to the 180sx not the 240
No, there are many other atoms in the ZDDP molecule than just zinc and phosphorus. The industry specifications are written around the % of phosphorus in the finished motor oil. The zinc level is typically about 6% higher than the phosphorus level, but most testing labs show the zinc about 10-12% higher.
Tom NJ
The spectrographic element analysis seen in an oil VOA-UOA in ppm measures the relative mass, and since a ZDDP molecule contains 1 zinc and 2 phosphorous atoms, and a zinc atom is about twice as heavy as a phosph atom, then the result is a mass ratio of about .95 to 1 phosp to zinc. This matches up to what you see in a UOA.
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
ok am i correct here
the level of zinc and phosphorus in this oil is around 1774 ppm and 1347 ppm.
A zddp element or atom or whatever contains two phosphorus to 1 zinc (2:1)
so in this case it would be phosphorus/2 + zinc levels= answer/2= zddp
so now i think its around 1200zddp. Am i correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
And the s13 is similar to the 180sx not the 240
No, there are many other atoms in the ZDDP molecule than just zinc and phosphorus. The industry specifications are written around the % of phosphorus in the finished motor oil. The zinc level is typically about 6% higher than the phosphorus level, but most testing labs show the zinc about 10-12% higher.
Tom NJ
The spectrographic element analysis seen in an oil VOA-UOA in ppm measures the relative mass, and since a ZDDP molecule contains 1 zinc and 2 phosphorous atoms, and a zinc atom is about twice as heavy as a phosph atom, then the result is a mass ratio of about .95 to 1 phosp to zinc. This matches up to what you see in a UOA.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
The spectrographic element analysis seen in an oil VOA-UOA in ppm measures the relative mass, and since a ZDDP molecule contains 1 zinc and 2 phosphorous atoms, and a zinc atom is about twice as heavy as a phosph atom, then the result is a mass ratio of about .95 to 1 phosp to zinc. This matches up to what you see in a UOA.
That is correct, and the VOA should show the Zn ppm at about 5.6% above the P ppm, but most that I see show it more like 10-12% above, probably due to response factors or spectral interferences in the analysis.
Tom NJ
The spectrographic element analysis seen in an oil VOA-UOA in ppm measures the relative mass, and since a ZDDP molecule contains 1 zinc and 2 phosphorous atoms, and a zinc atom is about twice as heavy as a phosph atom, then the result is a mass ratio of about .95 to 1 phosp to zinc. This matches up to what you see in a UOA.
That is correct, and the VOA should show the Zn ppm at about 5.6% above the P ppm, but most that I see show it more like 10-12% above, probably due to response factors or spectral interferences in the analysis.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
That is correct, and the VOA should show the Zn ppm at about 5.6% above the P ppm, but most that I see show it more like 10-12% above, probably due to response factors or spectral interferences in the analysis. Tom NJ
I always attributed the 10-12% difference you mentioned due to a small amount of zinc and/or phosphorous being in other additives or even impurities. Not sure. If it were simply lab error, you'd see the errors averaging out, yet you're right there is almost always about 11% or so difference.
That is correct, and the VOA should show the Zn ppm at about 5.6% above the P ppm, but most that I see show it more like 10-12% above, probably due to response factors or spectral interferences in the analysis. Tom NJ
I always attributed the 10-12% difference you mentioned due to a small amount of zinc and/or phosphorous being in other additives or even impurities. Not sure. If it were simply lab error, you'd see the errors averaging out, yet you're right there is almost always about 11% or so difference.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
I'd call Hoax!
..."And it was also found that ZDDP above 2,000 ppm, started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling."
ZDDP Attacking the iron? No, IMO, the excess just becomes reserve for future replenishing, over depletion.
"grain boundaries"
You can destroy a piece of boiler tube or a turbine blade with the wrong paint marker if it has chloride or low melting point metals in it...the products attack "the grain boundaries", and can cause cracking...the reported ZDDP phenomenon is spalling.
I'd call Hoax!
..."And it was also found that ZDDP above 2,000 ppm, started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling."
ZDDP Attacking the iron? No, IMO, the excess just becomes reserve for future replenishing, over depletion.
"grain boundaries"
You can destroy a piece of boiler tube or a turbine blade with the wrong paint marker if it has chloride or low melting point metals in it...the products attack "the grain boundaries", and can cause cracking...the reported ZDDP phenomenon is spalling.
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
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