100%!
But some on here would even argue that throwing a lawn chair off a cruise ship technically makes it lighter.
This is funny ^^^^^^^
Well done.
100%!
But some on here would even argue that throwing a lawn chair off a cruise ship technically makes it lighter.
And probably figure out to to work "Delta P" and "Positive displacement oil pump" into the argument.
And nobody has did an independent test on the Ultra to prove it's worse. People just assume it's worse because it doesn't have wire backed media anymore ... hardly scientific.
But hey ... oil filter efficiency doesn't really matter anyway, so it doesn't matter what the new Ultra performance is.
bbhero: Great post. Quick question on your stats above regarding the 99.6 at 15 microns line.
Fram's website says the Fram Ultra Synthetic 20,000 mile oil filter is: 99+ efficiency > 20 microns (assuming that is your line #2 above).
FRAM Ultra Synthetic® Oil Filter | 20,000 Miles of Protection | FRAM
Want the best performance from your new engine or the best protection for your older vehicle? There’s no better choice than ULTRA SYNTHETIC® oil filters.www.fram.com
I would like to buy the "OG Fram Ultra..." filter that you mention in your line # 3 above: 99.6% at 15 microns and 80% at 5 microns.
Can you supply more detail on that filter name or an Amazon or other link where it could be purchased?
Thanks,
Bill
No company has the obligation to "give customers a warning" that their product is changing. At least Fram did put out a notice about the change on their website.I'm not worried about the wire backing as much as the fact that the new filter media was sprung on the public without warning and even Fram staff seemed to be unaware of the change immediately after it happened. It is unproven and only time will tell if it will end up being a reputable product and if so I will happily consider using it in the future. Until then I would prefer to use something that I can have a predictable expectation using. I don't like being a guinea pig consumer
Yeah, the two other things that a lot of people don't quite grasp ...And probably figure out to to work "Delta P" and "Positive displacement oil pump" into the argument.
Not all medications are created equal ... but some here would say it doesn't matter at all what someone used to treat a wound or help a body heal. Thing is, those same people do look and buy what they think is the best product, so it becomes somewhat hyperbolic.Kind of like saying wound cleanser and anti infective medication and medication that helps wound healing = Doesn't matter. . .
That is a valid point. What is your opinion about it?. Will the cleaner engine perform better and/or have less potential problems over its full life? And will that better performance, if any, be noticeable to the average driver? I am asking because I am really interested in knowing personally and not to indicate any disagreement.There's a difference between "making it" (whatever that really means) and if the engine will be in better shape at that point or not due to keeping the oil cleaner.
Not all medications are created equal ... but some here would say it doesn't matter at all what someone used to treat a wound or help a body heal. Thing is, those same people do look and buy what they think is the best product, so it becomes somewhat hyperbolic.
All I can say is if an engine has less wear then it will most likely run better, have better power and better fuel mileage than one that is more worn. Of course, most people will say it doesn't matter because the car will get T-boned or rust out before it will wear out the engine. If I looked at everything like that I wouldn't care about anything, lol. Of course the oil filter is not the sole component to achieving the best maintenance to mitigate wear, but it is still a component of the trifecta equation of air filter, oil filter and motor oil mixed in with a decent maintenance schedule. If oil filtration wasn't really important then vehicles wouldn't even have an oil filter, or have substandard filtering like cars of many yesteryears. There are a lot of factors involved, but why throw any one of them out as not being important? Guess I just don't roll that way ... so what, who cares?That is a valid point. What is your opinion about it?. Will the cleaner engine perform better and/or have less potential problems over its full life? And will that better performance, if any, be noticeable to the average driver? I am asking because I am really interested in knowing personally and not to indicate any disagreement.
Thanks. I truly appreciate your time and input. I personally have always preferred a filter that has good efficiency and is overall well constructed. And I have never minded spending extra money to do so. I was just asking out of curiosity to see if there will really be a noticeable difference in wear and performance based on the type of filter one chooses. Very appreciative of your knowledge and your willingness to share.All I can say is if an engine has less wear then it will most likely run better, have better power and better fuel mileage than one that is more worn. Of course, most people will say it doesn't matter because the car will get T-boned or rust out before it will wear out the engine. If I looked at everything like that I wouldn't care about anything, lol. Of course the oil filter is not the sole component to achieving the best maintenance to mitigate wear, but it is still a component of the trifecta equation of air filter, oil filter and motor oil mixed in with a decent maintenance schedule. If oil filtration wasn't really important then vehicles wouldn't even have an oil filter, or have substandard filtering like cars of many yesteryears. There are a lot of factors involved, but why throw any one of them out as not being important? Guess I just don't roll that way ... so what, who cares?
I keep my vehicles at least 10 year, more like 15-20 or maybe forever based on what it is - especially the way car prices are going these days. The bottom line is no matter what anyone thinks, cleaner oil will cause less wear. Nobody will ever prove that no wear difference occurs between oil that is cleaner vs not. I don't care if it's enough wear difference to tell a difference behind the wheel because like I've said before it will only cost a few more bucks to use a higher efficiency oil filter vs not. Buy one less Big Mac a year and you're "in like Flynn", lol.
All I can say is if an engine has less wear then it will most likely run better, have better power and better fuel mileage than one that is more worn. Of course, most people will say it doesn't matter because the car will get T-boned or rust out before it will wear out the engine. If I looked at everything like that I wouldn't care about anything, lol. Of course the oil filter is not the sole component to achieving the best maintenance to mitigate wear, but it is still a component of the trifecta equation of air filter, oil filter and motor oil mixed in with a decent maintenance schedule. If oil filtration wasn't really important then vehicles wouldn't even have an oil filter, or have substandard filtering like cars of many yesteryears. There are a lot of factors involved, but why throw any one of them out as not being important? Guess I just don't roll that way ... so what, who cares?
I keep my vehicles at least 10 year, more like 15-20 or maybe forever based on what it is - especially the way car prices are going these days. The bottom line is no matter what anyone thinks, cleaner oil will cause less wear. Nobody will ever prove that no wear difference occurs between oil that is cleaner vs not. I don't care if it's enough wear difference to tell a difference behind the wheel because like I've said before it will only cost a few more bucks to use a higher efficiency oil filter vs not. Buy one less Big Mac a year and you're "in like Flynn", lol.
Thanks for the information.Less wear definitely=less oil burning (tighter bearing clearances), more power (better compression from less worn rings/cylinders), better valve timing (less chain wear), and less noise/blowby. What’s not to like? Yes, most vehicle’s engines will outlast their bodies-but that’s what good bodies from southern vehicles with blown engines are for!
The way they drive down here in the ‘Nati, it isn’t always rust that makes them fall apart!... Cars don't rust out in my area, so I'm not worried about the body falling apart before the engine does.
I agree that most, if not all, OEM filters are not highly efficient as are the Frams, Wix, and others. Good examples are Toyotas and Hondas. And yet, those are very reliable and long lasting engines. I doubt the average consumer will use anything other than OEM filters as they probably do most oil changes at the dealers. That is why I wonder if using a Purolator Boss for the life of an engine will actually cause any measurable wear difference as compared to OEM filters or even as compared to highly efficient aftermarket filters.To me, it calls into question the specified efficiencies (if there is such a thing) by OEMs. Mann+Hummel and Purolator filters are OEM in plenty of cars. Most German makes have Mann Filters as OEM, and most (every?) Motorcraft filter is a Purolator.
Less wear with finer filtration I'll accept, at least on paper, but is the reduction in wear measurable in the average internal combustion engine?