please explain to me all the FRAM hating! - why?

[CharBaby]

This dislike for FRAM, seems only to be with their ORANGE CAN OF DEATH(OCOD), hence the basic/least expensive FRAM Filter.

I used FRAM Orange Can for over 20 years w/o issues.

Then I read tsome test procedures(and discovered BITOG) that, at one time when there were only "regular" oil filters(higher line filters were slowly coming to market) on the store shelves(for the regular DIYer), and several individuals/groups decided to buy many popular brands in the popular applications from each MFG.

These individual/groups cut open the filters and inspect the filter media(filtration material), end caps, bypass valve(BPV) design, anti drainback valve(ADBV) and outer can construction and center tubing.

They tested the filter for inlet/outlet pressures and such and the filters ADBV to see if it held oil over time(for startup reasons), cut open the can and counted the pleates in the filter media, then the media was rolled out on a long floor/room and measured for length, inspected the media pore size and thickness through a microscope, looked at the BPV(spring or clicker), and on and on!

Simple...FRAM's didn't look very good for the money that they were asking compared to less costly filters.

Needless to say, I don't use FRAM Orange filter as much as I used to but, I will on occassion with an oil/filter special.
FRAM's other filters seem to be held in high regard even here at BITOG.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
To all of the Fram haters out there, I think you are not gonna be real pleased when you find out who makes the K&N, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Toyota Racing Design (TRD) filters - hehe

As long as they don't make MC everything is ok.
I was thinking about using a FU in the future until a member here sent in a defective FU and FRAM didn't even cut it open to inspect it. They just "ASSUMED" that since it had a microscopic dent in the canister, that caused it to fail. IMO, that just shows me they only care about the bottom line.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
if someone can tell me about a better oil filter for my Lexus LS400 than the Fram Ultra XG8600 at any price, and back it up, I would LOVE to hear about it!


Bosch D+

Although the Ultra is a fine filter.

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
To all of the Fram haters out there, I think you are not gonna be real pleased when you find out who makes the K&N, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Toyota Racing Design (TRD) filters - hehe


I assume that is a reference to Ranks acquisition of both Fram and Champion labs?

Clearly there is going to be some interbreeding since there is now a Fram branded e-core in use (not sure if anywhere but WM uses it) for bulk sale at oil changes. The Fram CORE.

 

[95busa]

People here often confuse good enough with perfection.

 

[Eddie]

Fram orange cans are OK because they have been used. for decades in tens of millions of vehicles. Only a fool would call them the orange can of death. I do think there are better filters for the money however. Ed.

 

[rfeir]

Hold on. There was a time that Fram switched over to lower quality case materials. Their reputation took a hit. I do believe that Fram no longer uses those questionable materials.

As for Consumer Reports, yes, they have a reputation issue, but I have found, looking back over time, they were more often right on their quality calls, something that I cannot say for Car and Driver or Road and Track. Now, Road Test was an interesting read, but it did not stay around for long because the advertisers did not like being told the truth about their products.

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: LScowboy
To all of the Fram haters out there, I think you are not gonna be real pleased when you find out who makes the K&N, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Toyota Racing Design (TRD) filters - hehe

As long as they don't make MC everything is ok.
I was thinking about using a FU in the future until a member here sent in a defective FU and FRAM didn't even cut it open to inspect it. They just "ASSUMED" that since it had a microscopic dent in the canister, that caused it to fail. IMO, that just shows me they only care about the bottom line.


You don't know they didn't cut it open. You are projecting again. And showing your bias. Aren't you the FUPU guy?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
To all of the Fram haters out there, I think you are not gonna be real pleased when you find out who makes the K&N, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Toyota Racing Design (TRD) filters - hehe


It doesn't matter who makes the filter as long as their manufacturing process is good. I does matter who designs it and what the design specifications are.

 

[wag123]

Their manufacturing quality seems to be reasonably good so all FRAM would really have to do to stop the bashing would be to use metal (rather than fiber) end caps and add a few more filter material pleats. It would cost them MAYBE $.05 more per filter and the bashers wouldn't have anything to complain about.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: wag123
It would cost them MAYBE $.05 more per filter and the bashers wouldn't have anything to complain about.

It's more than that. I don't mind what they make the filters out of or what methods they use, provided they do the job. The issue is that their cost savings aren't passed onto the consumer. There are many other filters that are far more affordable than the Fram orange can. They involve less cost cutting, too.

I can get a Wix for my F-150 and a Bosch Premium for my G cheaper than the Fram orange can. Is it any wonder that I haven't used an orange can on them, ever?

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
You don't know they didn't cut it open. You are projecting again. And showing your bias.

3000432 - Mon May 13 2013 01:41 AM Re: Update: Fram Ultra Failure Old thread locked [Re: Mullick2001]
Mullick2001 Offline


Registered: Sun Mar 31 2013
Posts: 73
Loc: Saint Paul, Mn

The response I got from jay.

Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me. We have actually made a video in the past about never installing a filter with any kind of dent in as it may leak. Yours was likely damaged in the store by a careless shelf stocker. The dent is really difficult to see until the guy drew a line around it. Sorry for your trouble dude.

Again he was very helpfull. You know I'm just [censored] they didnt open it thats all. Poeple bash all you want. I'm just saying I dont see a dent even a dent that small should not cause the problems I had. End of story. Not trying to bash fram filters in general. I would like to use them. I will not because they didnt even open it to inspect for the possabilty of manufactuer defect. They have great customer service and a good product but there QC department kills it for me.

_________________________
05 Malibu Maxx 3.5L V6 LX9, AMSOIL SS 0w-30 10,000M OCI 168,000M M1-101
06 Ford Freestyle 3.0L Duratech Mobil 1 AFE 0w-20 5,000m OCI 115,000M FL-820S

This is from the OP that sent the damaged FU back to FRAM.
Too biased for you?

 

[jfking106]

Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open? Just because the pictures (that I saw in the other thread, by the way) don't show the filter cut open doesn't mean they didn't afterward. You're assuming a lot, here.

And by the way, Mullick is obviously extremely biased, and went a on multi-page, multi-thread crusade against Fram who went out of their way to make it right with him. Quoting his word on the conversations he had with "Jay" isn't proof of anything. You sure are quick to take his word as gospel on the matter, though. Why is that?

 

[KCJeep]

Frams don't bother me at all, I have used too many of them to be concerned about any internet hysteria or nit picking. The orange can should be priced lower though IMO, so anymore I only use them when they are deal priced.

For whatever reason not all orange cans seem to be created equal, from my testing and cutting the 3600's, 3980's and 8316's are much better than say a PH8A, which looks more like something a kindergartener made.

Here's a PH3980 I ran for 5k.



My favorite Fram by far though is the Tough Guard, in fact it's one of my favorite filters period. My favorite value filters are Motorcrafts though.

Plenty of filters to pick from people can use what they want.

 

[jrustles]

I've experienced a solid 10-15psi drop in cold oil pressure, post filter with Frams vs an equivalent MANN filter. The worst filter was a TVI Brand with a 20-25psi drop post filter, vs equivalent MANN. This was all with the same oil.

Internal design matters big time. Just because something works, doesn't mean it works well. Sorry Honeywell, not interested.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
You sure are quick to take his word as gospel on the matter, though. Why is that?

You looked at the pics of the filter they stamped. Did they cut it open then seal it back again?
I trust the OP over any FRAM rep, anyday.
BTW, do you have an axe to grind with me? You seem to be fixated on my replies for some reason. Or, is it because I am talking about your cherished FRAM filters?

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: LScowboy


what is the deal? - I am frankly taken aback by all the Fram hate in online forums, not this one so much, but in most other automotive forums.


A lot of it is groupthink and the internet echo chamber effect. Maybe a grain of truth gets blown out of proportion and repeated over and over until it's a "fact." I understand that some people don't like to buy them because they feel they're cheaply constructed, whether or not that really has much or any impact on the performance. Heck, I personally choose other brands, but not because I think there's really anything wrong with Fram

And, there probably are certain engines that don't "like" Frams as much as as other brands, but that's true about any brand of filter.

Actually, the Consumer Reports bashing by a few vocal member here is the same thing. People repeat a few anecdotes about CR rating similar cars differently (Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix or Toyota Corolla/Chevy Prism) and use those examples to say CR is biased against one brand or another. But when I looked up those examples (I'm a CR subscriber), those cars aren't rated differently and CR says they're the same. They also ignore the fact that CR attempts to be more unbiased by actually buying all the products they test, they don't get them for free from the manufacturers like the other auto publications. CR isn't perfect, no organization is, but a lot of the claims bashing them on this forum aren't really accurate.

 

[ufbbc]

The answer is value. You can buy a better filter for the same price. Other brands have what most of us believe to be higher quality parts, at the same or similar price. I agree Fram will probably never hurt your engine, but why would you buy it if it is of less VALUE. I used to believe in Fram too. I have seen the light.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open?


This was what Mullick2001 quoted from Jay:

The response I got from jay.

"Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me."

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jfking106
Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open?


This was supposedly the quote from Jay:

The response I got from jay.

"Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me."

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jfking106
Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open?


This was what Mullick2001 quoted from Jay:

The response I got from jay.

"Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me."


Where is "Jay's" quote, then? All I saw was pictures of an unopened, dented filter. So we're supposed to take the word of someone who went on a crazy rant over a defective part, even after the company gave him six free replacements? Or the person who thinks said pictures of the unopened filter proves they never opened it?

The point is I'm annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality that some people seem prone to. I don't work for Fram, don't have stock, don't have family working for them by the way. I use their filters if they're in front of me when I buy oil, use others when not. So, I'm not white-knighting for Fram. I'm just as annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality of the never-ending Pennzoil Ultra UOA's. Really, we another 50 of those?