please explain to me all the FRAM hating! - why?

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: jfking106
You sure are quick to take his word as gospel on the matter, though. Why is that?

You looked at the pics of the filter they stamped. Did they cut it open then seal it back again?
I trust the OP over any FRAM rep, anyday.
BTW, do you have an axe to grind with me? You seem to be fixated on my replies for some reason. Or, is it because I am talking about your cherished FRAM filters?


I'm not brand loyal to any company. I'm just amused and curious why you have an axe to grind over this filter, when you don't know anything about it, other that what an obsessive compulsive ranted about it in his novel of posts. What's your beef with Fram?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jfking106
Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open?


This was what Mullick2001 quoted from Jay:

The response I got from jay.

"Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me."


Where is "Jay's" quote, then? All I saw was pictures of an unopened, dented filter. So we're supposed to take the word of someone who went on a crazy rant over a defective part, even after the company gave him six free replacements? Or the person who thinks said pictures of the unopened filter proves they never opened it?

The point is I'm annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality that some people seem prone to. I don't work for Fram, don't have stock, don't have family working for them by the way. I use their filters if they're in front of me when I buy oil, use others when not. So, I'm not white-knighting for Fram. I'm just as annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality of the never-ending Pennzoil Ultra UOA's. Really, we another 50 of those?


Just passing along that Mullick2001 relayed what Jay had said, and that was that the filter was not cut open.

If you want more info then that, then PM Motorking on this website, who is Jay from FRAM.

Read this first. Shows photos of the filter ... doesn't look cut open to me.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3000396/

And here's the original thread:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3000396/

 

[LScowboy]

I use a FRAM Ultra and Pennzoil Ultra, because, ya know, these things need to match!

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
As an ASE certified mechanic for 35+ years, I have probably installed many thousands of the plain old Fram orange can Extra Guard oil filter - I have *never* even heard of any direct firsthand knowledge of one of these failing that was properly installed.


Not to knock you or your mechanical abilities in any way, but very few mechanics know anything about oil or oil filters and when it comes to oil and filters, seasoned mechanics still have some of the worth stereotypes still stuck in their head. A friend of mine had his car at a Ford dealer recently and their oldest "tech" told him that his car had sludge because there was a Valvoline oil change sticker on the windshield. A Jiffy Lube jockey has changed thousands of oil filters in his lifetime, and I wouldn't hold his opinion over yours either.
The cheapest filters at a quickie lube place will get your car to 200K miles, as well as a Fram. Most people knock them because you can get a better filter than the OCOD for less money. Hey, somebody is paying for the 20 foot inflatable faux orange filters at the race track or the TV engine building shows that prominently display an orange filter on a $10K engine.

 

[measureman]

I bought and installed a Fram Tough Guard filter because it was the only one on the shelf at Walmart that fit my car and I did not feel like going to an Auto parts store.
I woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat thinking "What did I do!"
I BOUGHT AND USED A FRAM FILTER.
So tell me I can rest easy tonight.

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jfking106
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jfking106
Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open?


This was what Mullick2001 quoted from Jay:

The response I got from jay.

"Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me."


Where is "Jay's" quote, then? All I saw was pictures of an unopened, dented filter. So we're supposed to take the word of someone who went on a crazy rant over a defective part, even after the company gave him six free replacements? Or the person who thinks said pictures of the unopened filter proves they never opened it?

The point is I'm annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality that some people seem prone to. I don't work for Fram, don't have stock, don't have family working for them by the way. I use their filters if they're in front of me when I buy oil, use others when not. So, I'm not white-knighting for Fram. I'm just as annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality of the never-ending Pennzoil Ultra UOA's. Really, we another 50 of those?


Just passing along that Mullick2001 relayed what Jay had said, and that was that the filter was not cut open.

If you want more info then that, then PM Motorking on this website, who is Jay from FRAM.

Read this first. Shows photos of the filter ... doesn't look cut open to me.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3000396/

And here's the original thread:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3000396/


Again, all we have is the word of Mullick, who lost his mind over an oil filter, of what "Jay said." I don't see an email with "Jay's" name on it, or his message. Pictures of unopened filters are not proof that the filter was not opened and inspected after. What does it matter if it was opened, anyway? It was a defective part. It happens to every manufacturer on the planet. They gave him 6 new $9 Ultra filters ones in recompense. You think Wix and Purolator filters are never defective?

"But, but... cardboard endcaps! My brother's, uncle's girlfriend's motor was blowed up because of Fram! Fram causes autism!"

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jfking106
Where did "Jay" say they didn't cut it open?


This was what Mullick2001 quoted from Jay:

The response I got from jay.

"Here are the only pictures I can get. They didn’t even bother to cut open the filter as they seem to agree that the dent stressed the leaf and that’s it. If you want to post a few of these, it is fine by me."


Where is "Jay's" quote, then? All I saw was pictures of an unopened, dented filter. So we're supposed to take the word of someone who went on a crazy rant over a defective part, even after the company gave him six free replacements? Or the person who thinks said pictures of the unopened filter proves they never opened it?

The point is I'm annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality that some people seem prone to. I don't work for Fram, don't have stock, don't have family working for them by the way. I use their filters if they're in front of me when I buy oil, use others when not. So, I'm not white-knighting for Fram. I'm just as annoyed with the sheep-like, mob mentality of the never-ending Pennzoil Ultra UOA's. Really, we another 50 of those?

 

[chainblu]

I too, was disappointed that the defective filter was not cut open. I was also one of the few that thought I could see a dent in the pic, but I admit I could not be positive with the 'grip' surface there. The only way to tell for sure was if we could see the inside of the canister. So, the world will never know....

But, to answer the OP's question: I've used many, many different types of filters over the last 30 years. Some were cheapo store brands, others I paid good money for. I never saw where any of them failed to perform as expected. Did I cut every last one of them open? Of course not. It is possible one 'failed' without my knowledge? Of course it is. But I'd put even money on any given filter that I used.

If I can get a Fram at a good price, you bet I'll use it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Again, all we have is the word of Mullick, who lost his mind over an oil filter, of what "Jay said." I don't see an email with "Jay's" name on it, or his message. Pictures of unopened filters are not proof that the filter was not opened and inspected after.


Yeah, I'm sure Mullick2001 is lying and making up everything Jay said to him ... especially since Jay (Motorking) can come on here and see that Mullick2001 is making up things and lying about it all.

 

[AmishFury]

for me it's the whole better filters are available for less money

plus the HM filters... with the fitting choice by fram to put them in a brown can

now this completely excludes the FU because it's one of the best priced extended drain filters

 

[MrQuackers]

My stash of Orange Cans of Delight

A dozen High Mileage Frams for $19.95

One installed on my SL2 right now

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: MrQuackers
My stash of Orange Cans of Delight

A dozen High Mileage Frams for $19.95

One installed on my SL2 right now

That's a lot of Death in one box. Now, be a good BITOG'er and give them a proper burial.

 

[diver1972]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
...I understand that some people don't like to buy them because they feel they're cheaply constructed, whether or not that really has much or any impact on the performance.

 

[diver1972]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Fram causes autism!

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
That's a lot of Death in one box.

I don't "hate" FRAM. I just think the ExtraGuard and ToughGuard are overpriced for what's inside the can. I'm also underwhelmed by FRAM's habit of putting "miracle glop" in their filters, specifically the DoubleGuard with PTFE and the HM with who-knows-what. If the Ultra were far and away the best filter on the market I would use it, but it isn't, at least not for my purpose.

 

[iExcel]

Originally Posted By: diver1972
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
...I understand that some people don't like to buy them because they feel they're cheaply constructed, whether or not that really has much or any impact on the performance.

+3

I've been running FRAM's for a decade and have never had a problem with them. Still have about 20 in my stash and will use them with confidence.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: wag123
It would cost them MAYBE $.05 more per filter and the bashers wouldn't have anything to complain about.

It's more than that. I don't mind what they make the filters out of or what methods they use, provided they do the job. The issue is that their cost savings aren't passed onto the consumer. There are many other filters that are far more affordable than the Fram orange can. They involve less cost cutting, too.

I can get a Wix for my F-150 and a Bosch Premium for my G cheaper than the Fram orange can. Is it any wonder that I haven't used an orange can on them, ever?


Garak, if I could get a Wix or Bosch filter for cheaper than a Fram, I'd probably never use another Fram. However, where I am, the Fram, Purolator, and Motorcraft are all in the $3.50 to $4.00 range for common applications, and the Wix and Bosch are are in the $6.00-$8.00 range. I think that the FL-820S is probably the best sub-$4.00 filter there is, but it only fits one of my vehicles.

 

[danthaman1980]

A few thoughts...

1) The oil filter study referenced is what, 15 years old now? Invalid. Materials change, processes change, manufacturers come and go. Show me a recent study.

2) For me, filtration efficiency is important sure, but durability is more important. Any failure of the oil filter will result in loss of oil and potential catastrophic engine failure. You can roll the dice by using a Fram Extra Guard on your engine - I'll buy a well-made filter for mine. (after all, these spin-on filter thingys are external engine parts you know)

3) Although I haven't experienced any failures of Fram Extra Guard filters in use, I have experienced lots of failures in removal. Sometimes a filter will seize on the engine, even when installation was proper (happened on my Ford 4.9 I-6 once, tends to happen often on my friend's boat for some reason). If/when that happens, pray you weren't using a Fram Extra Guard.

4) Fram does make some good products - their air filters and cartridge filters are fine - their Extended Guard/Ultra spin-on filters are very good.

IMHO, YMMV, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Stelth
However, where I am, the Fram, Purolator, and Motorcraft are all in the $3.50 to $4.00 range for common applications, and the Wix and Bosch are are in the $6.00-$8.00 range. I think that the FL-820S is probably the best sub-$4.00 filter there is, but it only fits one of my vehicles.

Usually in Canada, we get hosed pretty good on filters. I do have a few good sources, though. Incidentally, at normal retail prices, the new Purolator Classics at Walmart are a better deal, as are the Hastings at Peavey Mart. Unfortunately, we don't have MCs anywhere except the dealer. Walmart used to have AC Delcos many moons ago, and they were dirt cheap.

 

[k1rod]

This is all a very interesting dynamic. And indeed, Fram has become the poster child for lousy oil filters. But why? Are they really Orange Cans of Doom, that scream out for the premature demise of your engine? Probably not a lot of hard evidence for that. You could probably use OCOD's changed out every 5K miles and get as many miles out of your engine as if you used M1 or Amsoil filters. So why all the hate? I think it is because although they function OK, they continously show as though they were made by a company that doesn't give a rip about the appeaance of quality (at least in the OCOD product line). The cardboard end caps may function just fine but most people don't want to see them in there. A corregated cardboard headliner in your car may also function just fine too but nobody wants to see it there. Uneven pleats may not cause significant problem with oil flow but people don't want to see them like that. I gives the impression of poor quality control.