Walmart's are here but no MMO sold at them. I was down in Rochester couple weeks back and picked up 2 qts. Haven't used it yet but I'd like to try em out closer to my oil change interval as I don't want to keep it in there long.
Pics after a few MMO cycles in a Saturn 1.9L DOHC
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Originally Posted By: ahoier
I think I'll keep the MMO in this ride
Since it's obviously been neglected, she didn't have any records/receipts or anything, lol. The glove box is really tiny on this old car 
And it's been driven very short trips the majority of it's life.....to the corner store and back, church on sundays, etc....
I'd do a 3000 mile run with it, then maybe another. That should get things good and clean. Then if you like add a pint for the last 1000 miles of your normal OCI.
I think I'll keep the MMO in this ride
And it's been driven very short trips the majority of it's life.....to the corner store and back, church on sundays, etc....I'd do a 3000 mile run with it, then maybe another. That should get things good and clean. Then if you like add a pint for the last 1000 miles of your normal OCI.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Originally Posted By: ChuckBerry
To be fair, there are no "before" pictures to compare. I believe MMO helps in both fuel and crankcase, however, and I wish that there were some "before" pictures to silence skeptics.
Yep, that would have been ideal, but I didn't feel like doing this job twice. I'm sure there will be people second guessing and opining about MMO having nothing to do with the results, etc. I know what I did and I know what I saw. I'm convinced.
EDIT: LOL, it didn't take them long. *shrug*
Best,
I'll take Familyguy's word, he has no agenda! Familyguy I'd bet if you continue another full OCI or two that varnish will disappear too. Those prictures prove what many of us have been saying all along! Thanks for posting.
No second guessing here. I just completed a 3k OCI on MMO and PP together and was pleased with the results. PYB is in for another 3k OCI and MMO is only being skipped this time while I test another product without other variables (my Corolla has become my additive guinea pig).
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Originally Posted By: ChuckBerry
To be fair, there are no "before" pictures to compare. I believe MMO helps in both fuel and crankcase, however, and I wish that there were some "before" pictures to silence skeptics.
Yep, that would have been ideal, but I didn't feel like doing this job twice. I'm sure there will be people second guessing and opining about MMO having nothing to do with the results, etc. I know what I did and I know what I saw. I'm convinced.
EDIT: LOL, it didn't take them long. *shrug*
Best,
I'll take Familyguy's word, he has no agenda! Familyguy I'd bet if you continue another full OCI or two that varnish will disappear too. Those prictures prove what many of us have been saying all along! Thanks for posting.
No second guessing here. I just completed a 3k OCI on MMO and PP together and was pleased with the results. PYB is in for another 3k OCI and MMO is only being skipped this time while I test another product without other variables (my Corolla has become my additive guinea pig).
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
...you can even see the detailed "styrofoam looking" casting marks on the head. This is EXACTLY what things looked like when I took off the cover. I didn't clean anything (yet).
Best,
Really does look like styrofoam, LOL
...you can even see the detailed "styrofoam looking" casting marks on the head. This is EXACTLY what things looked like when I took off the cover. I didn't clean anything (yet).
Best,
Really does look like styrofoam, LOL
Getting close, but not quite close enough, to somebody posting "before and after" pictures of an oil additive. Still waiting to see something ...
Various people have posted them in different threads, though its not always easy or feasible to do. Were I take the kind of pictures folks such as yourself would like to see, I'd either have to pop the cylinder head off or drop the oil pan. The two issues that raises is that both are sealed by 10 year old gaskets that aren't presently leaking, but may very well begin to were I to do either just to satisfy someone else's need to see something proven.
As I'd have to foot the bill for the replacement gasket, as well as the time to replace it, its not at all worthwhile to do just to satisfy someone else's need for proof. I'd imagine most other people come to the same conclusion.
If I use something and its satisfied me, then as I've purchased it, I am the only one who needs to be satisfied by the use of it. From my POV, that is the only before and after required.
-Spyder
As I'd have to foot the bill for the replacement gasket, as well as the time to replace it, its not at all worthwhile to do just to satisfy someone else's need for proof. I'd imagine most other people come to the same conclusion.
If I use something and its satisfied me, then as I've purchased it, I am the only one who needs to be satisfied by the use of it. From my POV, that is the only before and after required.
-Spyder
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gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
No second guessing. It's simply the fact that most people who post up MMO (or any additive for that matter) "results," it's always while cleaning up a new-to-them motor. In other words, it's never proven whether the addition of shorter OCI's into the mix with higher quality oils than the previous owner would ever have run is responsible, or if it was solely the MMO.
I have nothing against MMO, nor does any one think that those singing MMO's praises have an agenda. If I witness a single instance where MMO cleaned up what was left behind by proper OCI's, or where MMO cleaned up a sludged up motor AFTER the new owner tried a few shorter OCI's, then I'll most certainly be a believer.
FWIW, there's a difference between the haters who have never tried and those who have and still remain skeptical. The skeptics keep things interesting, IMO.
I have nothing against MMO, nor does any one think that those singing MMO's praises have an agenda. If I witness a single instance where MMO cleaned up what was left behind by proper OCI's, or where MMO cleaned up a sludged up motor AFTER the new owner tried a few shorter OCI's, then I'll most certainly be a believer.
FWIW, there's a difference between the haters who have never tried and those who have and still remain skeptical. The skeptics keep things interesting, IMO.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
No second guessing. It's simply the fact that most people who post up MMO (or any additive for that matter) "results," it's always while cleaning up a new-to-them motor. In other words, it's never proven whether the addition of shorter OCI's into the mix with higher quality oils than the previous owner would ever have run is responsible, or if it was solely the MMO.
I have nothing against MMO, nor does any one think that those singing MMO's praises have an agenda. If I witness a single instance where MMO cleaned up what was left behind by proper OCI's, or where MMO cleaned up a sludged up motor AFTER the new owner tried a few shorter OCI's, then I'll most certainly be a believer.
FWIW, there's a difference between the haters who have never tried and those who have and still remain skeptical. The skeptics keep things interesting, IMO.
*shrug*
Believe what you want. Outside of a laboratory, it's impossible to eliminate all the variables. Had I done everything "to your satisfaction" I'm sure you'd still be grousing about how the oil did all the work. I'll mark you into the professional heckler category and move on.
Best,
No second guessing. It's simply the fact that most people who post up MMO (or any additive for that matter) "results," it's always while cleaning up a new-to-them motor. In other words, it's never proven whether the addition of shorter OCI's into the mix with higher quality oils than the previous owner would ever have run is responsible, or if it was solely the MMO.
I have nothing against MMO, nor does any one think that those singing MMO's praises have an agenda. If I witness a single instance where MMO cleaned up what was left behind by proper OCI's, or where MMO cleaned up a sludged up motor AFTER the new owner tried a few shorter OCI's, then I'll most certainly be a believer.
FWIW, there's a difference between the haters who have never tried and those who have and still remain skeptical. The skeptics keep things interesting, IMO.
*shrug*
Believe what you want. Outside of a laboratory, it's impossible to eliminate all the variables. Had I done everything "to your satisfaction" I'm sure you'd still be grousing about how the oil did all the work. I'll mark you into the professional heckler category and move on.
Best,
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
I'm not really sure how to respond. I come here to read and post on BITOG because I like how civil the discussions are. Every so often some one's intent will be miscontrued, but to be called a heckler for something as benign as what I posted seems a bit odd.
Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on observations and personal experience, nothing more. Take care, bud.
Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on observations and personal experience, nothing more. Take care, bud.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
FWIW, I've used Irish Spring and Dial most of my life. I just recently bought a package of Lever 2000 and I'd swear I'm at least 20% cleaner.
I used MMO in the crankcase* of my Toyota PU (22R) the engine had no real issues, but it is 26 years old, and was a little shaky at Idle and low RPM.
I ARx'ed the engine as per instructions 2 years ago, with no discernible results (I monitored compression, fuel consumption, vibration etc.)
This Fall I decided to try MMO.
I purchased a Quart at Autozone while visiting Port Angeles WA
Half a Liter was added to the oil pan for the last 2K of my normal OCI (oil was it's normal 1/2 liter down at that point)
Suddenly at about 200 mile after adding, Something happened!
The engine, for the first time, ever became smooth* and the Truck (again for the first time) could be driven in 2nd or even 3rd gear without gas at idle speed. I have not checked compression and I have not checked fuel consumption (My driving at this time is too inconsistent) but 'feel' there may possibly be a slight improvement (it's certainly not worse)
Old oil at the end of my OCI was VERY black.
I don't think at this time I will use MMO on a regular basis, but may use it in a similar manor as a 'once a year' clean-up.
* Even the wife noticed this, and in the past she has driven on a flat tire and not noticed!
*at that time MMO was used ONLY in the oil. I have since used it in the gas, but have not had such spectacular results (just seems normal)
I ARx'ed the engine as per instructions 2 years ago, with no discernible results (I monitored compression, fuel consumption, vibration etc.)
This Fall I decided to try MMO.
I purchased a Quart at Autozone while visiting Port Angeles WA
Half a Liter was added to the oil pan for the last 2K of my normal OCI (oil was it's normal 1/2 liter down at that point)
Suddenly at about 200 mile after adding, Something happened!
The engine, for the first time, ever became smooth* and the Truck (again for the first time) could be driven in 2nd or even 3rd gear without gas at idle speed. I have not checked compression and I have not checked fuel consumption (My driving at this time is too inconsistent) but 'feel' there may possibly be a slight improvement (it's certainly not worse)
Old oil at the end of my OCI was VERY black.
I don't think at this time I will use MMO on a regular basis, but may use it in a similar manor as a 'once a year' clean-up.
* Even the wife noticed this, and in the past she has driven on a flat tire and not noticed!
*at that time MMO was used ONLY in the oil. I have since used it in the gas, but have not had such spectacular results (just seems normal)
I've seen friends engines over the years that were maintained with 3000 mile OCI's that had some sludge and varnish. A Ford Maverick a friend had comes to mind. I helped him replace a valve cover and saw some sludge and varnish, and suggested he add MMO. I was not going to clean it out! About a year later he was leaking oil again, I guess we didn't do the VC gasket job well. We pulled the VC and did the job over, nice clean valve train under that cover. So the shorter OCI's that he was doing didn't help do any cleaning. The only thing that was different was the addition of MMO. Believe what you want, I've seen enough examples over the years of MMO working to believe Familyguy's results. Sorry no pictures! This guy was a Valvoline user, in fact that was the only oil that little 200 I6 ever saw!
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
FWIW, I've used Irish Spring and Dial most of my life. I just recently bought a package of Lever 2000 and I'd swear I'm at least 20% cleaner.
Have any tests to back that? UOA's maybe?
Someone may want before/after pics....
FWIW, I've used Irish Spring and Dial most of my life. I just recently bought a package of Lever 2000 and I'd swear I'm at least 20% cleaner.
Have any tests to back that? UOA's maybe?
Someone may want before/after pics....
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'm not really sure how to respond. I come here to read and post on BITOG because I like how civil the discussions are. Every so often some one's intent will be miscontrued, but to be called a heckler for something as benign as what I posted seems a bit odd.
Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on observations and personal experience, nothing more. Take care, bud.
Civil is good. But frankly, I found your tone a bit off-putting. I have no financial interest in MMO or it's counterparts. I'm simply providing a datapoint and some pics along with my explanation of "where things were" vs "where things are."
Perhaps you can color me a bit paranoid. There's been a number of downright abusive folks who prefer "another product" (cough....ARX....cough) and have been "heckling" MMO users in the forums. If you're not one of those, then please accept my apology.
Best,
I'm not really sure how to respond. I come here to read and post on BITOG because I like how civil the discussions are. Every so often some one's intent will be miscontrued, but to be called a heckler for something as benign as what I posted seems a bit odd.
Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on observations and personal experience, nothing more. Take care, bud.
Civil is good. But frankly, I found your tone a bit off-putting. I have no financial interest in MMO or it's counterparts. I'm simply providing a datapoint and some pics along with my explanation of "where things were" vs "where things are."
Perhaps you can color me a bit paranoid. There's been a number of downright abusive folks who prefer "another product" (cough....ARX....cough) and have been "heckling" MMO users in the forums. If you're not one of those, then please accept my apology.
Best,
I've seen ARX suggested for so many different purposes, some of which an oil additive of any kind wouldn't even seem effective, that it comes across to me as "the miracle cure for everything" from some posters. Except the miracle cure seems to be offered only online and its not exactly inexpensive. Or versatile.
I recommend MMO frequently because I've tried it myself and was pleased with the results. I also like its versatility: it can be used in the oil, as a UCL in the fuel, or as a piston soak shot right into the cylinders. Not many products have its versatility.
Its also inexpensive for most people. Where it combines lubricating and mild solvency and is recommended at a 10-25% concentration in oil, it can happily co-exist with any engine oil where its mild solvency can help along the detergent/dispersant add pack in the oil.
Its also time tested. I don't understand why it draws as much skepticism as it does. Were it available locally I'd keep a gallon on hand, as I know I'd find uses for it and it won't go to waste. There's few additives I can say that about.
-Spyder
I recommend MMO frequently because I've tried it myself and was pleased with the results. I also like its versatility: it can be used in the oil, as a UCL in the fuel, or as a piston soak shot right into the cylinders. Not many products have its versatility.
Its also inexpensive for most people. Where it combines lubricating and mild solvency and is recommended at a 10-25% concentration in oil, it can happily co-exist with any engine oil where its mild solvency can help along the detergent/dispersant add pack in the oil.
Its also time tested. I don't understand why it draws as much skepticism as it does. Were it available locally I'd keep a gallon on hand, as I know I'd find uses for it and it won't go to waste. There's few additives I can say that about.
-Spyder
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gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'm not really sure how to respond. I come here to read and post on BITOG because I like how civil the discussions are. Every so often some one's intent will be miscontrued, but to be called a heckler for something as benign as what I posted seems a bit odd.
Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on observations and personal experience, nothing more. Take care, bud.
Civil is good. But frankly, I found your tone a bit off-putting. I have no financial interest in MMO or it's counterparts. I'm simply providing a datapoint and some pics along with my explanation of "where things were" vs "where things are."
Perhaps you can color me a bit paranoid. There's been a number of downright abusive folks who prefer "another product" (cough....ARX....cough) and have been "heckling" MMO users in the forums. If you're not one of those, then please accept my apology.
Best,
Wasn't my intent to offend.
I've used both MMO and A-Rx a handful of times each with zero verifiable results. I'm skeptical of anything I can't prove to myself is all.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'm not really sure how to respond. I come here to read and post on BITOG because I like how civil the discussions are. Every so often some one's intent will be miscontrued, but to be called a heckler for something as benign as what I posted seems a bit odd.
Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on observations and personal experience, nothing more. Take care, bud.
Civil is good. But frankly, I found your tone a bit off-putting. I have no financial interest in MMO or it's counterparts. I'm simply providing a datapoint and some pics along with my explanation of "where things were" vs "where things are."
Perhaps you can color me a bit paranoid. There's been a number of downright abusive folks who prefer "another product" (cough....ARX....cough) and have been "heckling" MMO users in the forums. If you're not one of those, then please accept my apology.
Best,
Wasn't my intent to offend.
I've used both MMO and A-Rx a handful of times each with zero verifiable results. I'm skeptical of anything I can't prove to myself is all.
I haven't used MMO, but used ARX. in my '96 where the first owner's maintenance was obviously spotty, the idle was noticeably improved after 200 miles in to the 1st phase.
I'm sure MMO has positive benefit to this engine.
Suggestion: use LC for continued cleanliness. Using it for about 80K or so, the engine internals looks brand new. Pix of my '96 SL2 with 160K (or was it 180K??) was uber clean.
Two thumbs up!!
I'm sure MMO has positive benefit to this engine.
Suggestion: use LC for continued cleanliness. Using it for about 80K or so, the engine internals looks brand new. Pix of my '96 SL2 with 160K (or was it 180K??) was uber clean.
Two thumbs up!!
to:tpitcher your sludge may be cause the crankcase ventilation system needs a new valve. happened to me, on a dodge v-8, the oil filler cap had moisture on it, then i changed the pcv valve, and it stoped.
Now that the valve cover are off, you might as well do a piston soak, and see if it helps with oil consumption....
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Now that the valve cover are off, you might as well do a piston soak, and see if it helps with oil consumption....
What does valve cover removal have to do with a piston soak?
You simply pour the MMO into the spark plug hole, which doesn't require you remove anything other than the spark plug.
Best,
Now that the valve cover are off, you might as well do a piston soak, and see if it helps with oil consumption....
What does valve cover removal have to do with a piston soak?
Best,
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