Pennzoil Ultra vs Amsoil XL

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Originally Posted By: sopususer
I wonder if someone used PU and had a hard copy of this TDS from Shell on Pennzoil Ultra and dexos approval what GM could do on a warranty issue?


That's an extremely good question. Or, what would happen if someone had a copy of the dexos1 site when/if PU were listed on it, or something similar?

All things being equal, I don't think GM would make too much of a stink, particularly if it happened around now. If it were from before PU were licensed, or some distant time in the future after it's license had lapsed for an extended period, I could see a potential issue. Notably, if they had receipts for PU from "around" when it were dexos1 licensed, they should be set.

Basically, if someone has a vehicle calling for dexos1, they should stay away from both Amsoil and PU!
wink.gif


SOPUS needs to quit playing the shell game (get it?) with their dexos1 approved oils.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: sopususer
with the Amsoil I'd have to rely on the one source for the good price you mention.


??? He can get the lowest price for the Amsoil from any good Amsoil dealer, preferably a BITOG Sponsor. I don't quite get the one source comment.

I love the way SOPUS does it. "Specifications and Approvals" and does a bulleted list. Interesting. Not challenged by SLO guy?


Pablo, it says "Approvals", not "recommended for".

Furthermore, if I had a warranty problem with a new vehicle and was using Mobil, Shell, or Conoco-Phillips products, I seriously doubt the auto manufacturer would void my warranty. If I used Amsoil products, I think they might.

I'll be candid with you, I am not a fan of Amsoil. I think Amsoil's claims are dubious, I question its business model, etc. When doing any online search that's oil related one gets 1000's of hits from different Amsoil dealers and distributors - all of them repeating the same anecdotal claims. And given the fact that Amsoil products are priced similarly to SOPUS, COP, Mobil products; I just don't see the attraction.

Anyway, it's all just my opinion. To each his own. All of us gearheads can make our own decisions.

Scott
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: sopususer
I wonder if someone used PU and had a hard copy of this TDS from Shell on Pennzoil Ultra and dexos approval what GM could do on a warranty issue?


That's an extremely good question. Or, what would happen if someone had a copy of the dexos1 site when/if PU were listed on it, or something similar?

All things being equal, I don't think GM would make too much of a stink, particularly if it happened around now. If it were from before PU were licensed, or some distant time in the future after it's license had lapsed for an extended period, I could see a potential issue. Notably, if they had receipts for PU from "around" when it were dexos1 licensed, they should be set.

Basically, if someone has a vehicle calling for dexos1, they should stay away from both Amsoil and PU!
wink.gif


SOPUS needs to quit playing the shell game (get it?) with their dexos1 approved oils.



I believe Pennzoil just decided to make a separate blend for DEXOS use. Will Quaker State do the same once the Quaker State's license expires? I prefer Ford's route if a oil meets API certifications it is good for Ford. So the speculation will begin. Does Ford believe that their engines are that much more durable than GM's that if you change your oil at the specified intervals with a API certified oil your engine will not have any problems during warranty. Or is it just that API's certifications although many have a opinion that API's certification process is weak, Is actually good enough to provide enough protection for many many miles of use. Or GM have other motives for a specialty product?
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Bottom line is...flip a coin or go with the best price.


cheers3.gif



Quote:
And given the fact that Amsoil products are priced similarly to SOPUS, COP, Mobil products; I just don't see the attraction.



Actually more expensive. Mobil 1 EP for example at Walmart in a 5qt jug comes to $5.79qt. Same with PU. Practically impossible to beat that.
 
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: sopususer
with the Amsoil I'd have to rely on the one source for the good price you mention.


??? He can get the lowest price for the Amsoil from any good Amsoil dealer, preferably a BITOG Sponsor. I don't quite get the one source comment.

I love the way SOPUS does it. "Specifications and Approvals" and does a bulleted list. Interesting. Not challenged by SLO guy?


Pablo, it says "Approvals", not "recommended for".

Furthermore, if I had a warranty problem with a new vehicle and was using Mobil, Shell, or Conoco-Phillips products, I seriously doubt the auto manufacturer would void my warranty. If I used Amsoil products, I think they might.

I'll be candid with you, I am not a fan of Amsoil. I think Amsoil's claims are dubious, I question its business model, etc. When doing any online search that's oil related one gets 1000's of hits from different Amsoil dealers and distributors - all of them repeating the same anecdotal claims. And given the fact that Amsoil products are priced similarly to SOPUS, COP, Mobil products; I just don't see the attraction.

Anyway, it's all just my opinion. To each his own. All of us gearheads can make our own decisions.

Scott


You realize that Mobil and Castrol products currently do not meet Chrysler's specs? Castrol will state recommend for. Mobil will not even say recommend for but will recommend the appropriate grade of Mobil oil for your Chrysler vehicle. Mobil One list a slew of recommend for in applications that it does not have formal certifications that Pennzoil Ultra/Shell Helix have.

The point is a lot of companies other than Amsoil does this. But in each case including Amsoil if I had a warranty to protect I would not worry about using each product on every oil change at the recommended oil change intervals. The only thing I would not do is use GTX in a application that states a synthetic oil is required. But I would use the appropriate grade of Amsoil for every application without worries. Do I believe Amsoil is a superior product. No. But if I change Amsoil with the recommend OCI by the factory if the engine goes kaput. I know something else was wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Furthermore, if I had a warranty problem with a new vehicle and was using Mobil, Shell, or Conoco-Phillips products, I seriously doubt the auto manufacturer would void my warranty. If I used Amsoil products, I think they might.


For one, that wouldn't be an issue if you're using the correct grade and API/ILSAC specification. Secondly, even if you weren't, technically, they'd have to prove that the oil caused the failure. I bet filters fail more often than oil, and even filter failures are rather rare.

However, if a product isn't certified for your application, don't use it under warranty if you're worried about it. It's that simple.

Originally Posted By: dave1251
I believe Pennzoil just decided to make a separate blend for DEXOS use.


Yes, I saw that. I hope for dexos1 users that it will actually be readily available, unless SOPUS just wants to hand over the sales to XOM.
 
I could let a few of the smaller specs slide and be ok with it, but if it came down to a high end car like a MB, I would DEFINITELY want approval. MB specs are among the toughest out there.

Specs give the consumer confidence otherwise you have to rely on the reputation of the blender. In many cases, there is nothing wrong with that.
 
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Pablo, it says "Approvals", not "recommended for".


It very clearly says: "Specifications and Approvals". There is a HUGE difference. Either you don't understand that, or you are just stirring the pot.

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Furthermore, if I had a warranty problem with a new vehicle and was using Mobil, Shell, or Conoco-Phillips products, I seriously doubt the auto manufacturer would void my warranty. If I used Amsoil products, I think they might.


They would not or could not void your warranty. You don't really know, so you type you "think they might". Doesn't make a whole ton of sense right there.

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
I'll be candid with you, I am not a fan of Amsoil. I think Amsoil's claims are dubious, I question its business model, etc. .....


So that's what it is all about. You haven't tried the products, you really haven't bothered to learn other than to put some very biased scrutiny on Amsoil, scrutiny that you never even apply as deeply to other oil marketing and you post about it. I'm actually fine with that. It's your opinion and you are welcome to it. But please don't tell other people what you think will happen to their warranties.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I wonder how many GM car owners just change with their favorite brand of oil and do not pay attention to DEXOS?


No doubt about it all. Most just use their fav API brand.

I have NEVER had any customer ask me about DEXOS. NEVER. And moved a SERIOUS amount of motor oil the last three months.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo


Has OE been tested to HTO-06? That marketing spec is now outdated and most any decent oil can meet it.


Why do you consider it a "marketing spec", and why do you believe that any decent oil can meet it? Lastly, why do you consider it an "out of date" spec?

I wasn't aware that any of the GF-5/SN test parameters (or OEM approvals) mimicked the testing of HTO-06?
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I wonder how many GM car owners just change with their favorite brand of oil and do not pay attention to DEXOS?


Quite frankly,people these days have waaaay too much goin on in their normal lives,to worry about if an oil is Dexos,etc etc.People change their own oil,people take their vehicles to places to change their oil for them,they simply get the job done,because family activities,jobs,and other more demanding things are more pressing then worrying about a specific approved oil,sorry but it's the truth.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Pablo


Has OE been tested to HTO-06? That marketing spec is now outdated and most any decent oil can meet it.


Why do you consider it a "marketing spec", and why do you believe that any decent oil can meet it? Lastly, why do you consider it an "out of date" spec?

I wasn't aware that any of the GF-5/SN test parameters (or OEM approvals) mimicked the testing of HTO-06?


Because of the way M1 marketed with it. They still mention it but only in regard to turbocharged engines, and most any synthetic oil with decent additive chemistry does fine in even the most severe turbo conditions. Because Honda is moving away from it, and hasn't updated the spec.

http://www.infineum.com/sitecollectiondocuments/notebooks/gf5/J Jetter Honda 042109.pdf

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/synthetics/Mobil_1_Advanced_OEM_Specs.aspx
 
I refuse to use Amsoil because I dealt with a representative one time who just rubbed me the wrong way. I was stuck on a test drive with him searching for a problem on his vehicle and all the while he is trying to sell me on the magical elixir that is Amsoil. I told him I changed my oil every 3k with VWB and my last 2 vehicles were traded off with 200k on the odometer. He pretty much told me I was trying to destroy my vehicle by not using Amsoil. I had to be nice because he was a customer at my work but I wanted to tell him he was a dip donged mongoloid. I try not to bash the product as I have never tried it and it may be an excellent oil. I just know that 3k on a name brand conventional oil is just fine (I actually do 5k now) and anyone who tries to tell me otherwise is just insulting my intelligence(and I am not even that smart! lol).
 
Well, Honda's getting out of the turbo business (at least it appears that way), but the spec still seems relevant to turbocharged engines.

I don't actually remember the results of the test M1 published forever ago, but at the time I thought there were quite a few GIII oils which didn't pass the test? I certainly could be misremembering it, though.

All that said, I don't really view it as a marketing spec more than any other OEM approval. Sure, lubricant mfg's take advantage of it for marketing purposes, but I have to think the OEM's come up with that spec for a reason. Honda doesn't sell their own brand of oil, so selling more Honda oil doesn't seem like a potential reason. Maybe they received a fat payout from Mobil1? I like conspiracy theories, so I guess I can roll with that... Thing is, the HTO-06 spec is publicly available, and any company can test their oil to see if it meets the spec if they choose to do so (and advertise accordingly).
 
If Honda randomly chose several brands off the shelf and found one that was way better than the rest, I'd use it as marketing too. And, it was Honda who did the testing so it's has significant credibility behind it.

That spec represents so few cars on the road, it's almost irrelevant. The only thing to take away from it is that at that time (2006) most off the shelf synthetics were not that good at preventing deposits. Most were pretty dismal. Syntec among the worst. PP was the only other oil to pass it.

Now I assume more oils would meet/pass that test as oil quality has gone up across the board.
 
That test should be an example though of how all synthetics are not created equal and that just assuming some of these oils meet certain specs is naive. As I said though, the quality gap has closed significantly and will continue to do so.
 
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