Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum NOACK values

[Gokhan]

I located some of the “Valvoline Premium Blue Restore” which only comes in 10w30 at a near by Cummins Sales and Service.

Question; if I’m burning on average about 1 quart every 1,500 miles and it’s probably best to run this stuff for 10,000miles(I’ll probably run it for 5,000miles). What do I do as the oil level on the VPBR starts to drop? Do I just top it off with any regular synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 FS 0W40 that you recommended?

also what is this Valvoline rebate I often see people talking about. Is it available only certain time of the year? Could I apply any kind of rebate to this expensive VPBR to help make it more affordable?

This is great! I hope they are giving you a good price!

I am guessing your oil-fill capacity is more than 4 quarts. Therefore, you will need two 1-gallon bottles, as they are not 5-quart but 1-gallon bottles. If any oil is left after a 10,000-mile OCI, you can later use the remaining oil in the future for engine cleaning by mixing it with regular engine oil.

Note that this is a 10W-30 HDEO, which is thicker than a 10W-30 PCMO. HTHS is at least 3.5 cP for a 10W-30 HDEO (as opposed to about 3.0 cP for a typical 10W-30 PCMO) and KV100 is typically higher as well.

You will also need an excellent full-synthetic oversized oil filter—in other words the Fram Ultra XG3600:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FRAM-Ult...-20K-mile-Change-Interval-Oil-Filter/16878921

https://www.amazon.com/XG3600-Ultra-Synthetic-Spin-Filter/dp/B000C2ZKJM/

It is very important not to use a regular oil filter with this oil, as you need both high efficiency and high capacity to filter out and collect the tremendous amount of carbon that will come loose.

I am pretty sure that the XG3600 will fit in, but you may want to verify the height and width clearances around the oil filter. In the unlikely event that it doesn't, you can downsize to the XG3614.

Good luck!

 

[Salzamani]

This is great! I hope they are giving you a good price!

I am guessing your oil-fill capacity is more than 4 quarts. Therefore, you will need two 1-gallon bottles, as they are not 5-quart but 1-gallon bottles. If any oil is left after a 10,000-mile OCI, you can later use the remaining oil in the future for engine cleaning by mixing it with regular engine oil.

Note that this is a 10W-30 HDEO, which is thicker than a 10W-30 PCMO. HTHS is at least 3.5 cP for a 10W-30 HDEO (as opposed to about 3.0 cP for a typical 10W-30 PCMO) and KV100 is typically higher as well.

You will also need an excellent full-synthetic oversized oil filter—in other words the Fram Ultra XG3600:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FRAM-Ult...-20K-mile-Change-Interval-Oil-Filter/16878921

https://www.amazon.com/XG3600-Ultra-Synthetic-Spin-Filter/dp/B000C2ZKJM/

It is very important not to use a regular oil filter with this oil, as you need both high efficiency and high capacity to filter out and collect the tremendous amount of carbon that will come loose.

I am pretty sure that the XG3600 will fit in, but you may want to verify the height and width clearances around the oil filter. In the unlikely event that it doesn't, you can downsize to the XG3614.

Good luck!

During this cleansing period of 10k miles OCI do I need To change the way I drive the car and not redline it? can I drive the car hard from time to time like I always do?

 

[Gokhan]

During this cleansing period of 10k miles OCI do I need To change the way I drive the car and not redline it? can I drive the car hard from time to time like I always do?

The rings may be reseated while the carbon is being removed; therefore, I would consider this as a break-in period and drive the car gently if I were you.

 

[Salzamani]

The rings may be reseated while the carbon is being removed; therefore, I would consider this as a break-in period and drive the car gently if I were you.

oh and I almost forgot to ask what is the consensus on what this stuff does to gaskets? Could I potentially develop an oil leak using this VPBR product?

 

[OVERKILL]

The rings may be reseated while the carbon is being removed; therefore, I would consider this as a break-in period and drive the car gently if I were you.

I wouldn't call it "re-seating", as ring seating depends on the cross-hatching being present on the cylinder walls, which in an application that already went through break-in has long been removed (though you can often still "see" it in tear downs, but it doesn't perform the same function any longer). The process of ring bedding happens shortly after first fire and the rings and bores "mate" to each other during that process as the material is removed to facilitate seating. This is why break-in is important. Even if the rings are stuck, all they'll do is come back out to where they were, there won't be any additional bedding taking place.

 

[Gokhan]

oh and I almost forgot to ask what is the consensus on what this stuff does to gaskets? Could I potentially develop an oil leak using this VPBR product?

POE and AN, which make up ¾ of the base oil of the Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore are seal swellers, with the remaining ¼ being PAO, which is a seal shrinker. Therefore, the overall effect will be a seal swell.

@The Critic, who is a professional mechanic, has run in it in his Gen 3 Prius for 10,000 miles. I don't think he's had any issues.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...emium-blue-restore-10w-30-9-861-miles.331194/

https://priuschat.com/threads/valvo...-oil-consumption-repair-or-prevention.211774/

I've seen on Toyota 2AZ-FE forums people suggesting using two gallons of the Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore along with the Fram Ultra XG3600.

 

[Salzamani]

POE and AN, which make up ¾ of the base oil of the Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore are seal swellers, with the remaining ¼ being PAO, which is a seal shrinker. Therefore, the overall effect will be a seal swell.

@The Critic, who is a professional mechanic, has run in it in his Gen 3 Prius for 10,000 miles. I don't think he's had any issues.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...emium-blue-restore-10w-30-9-861-miles.331194/

https://priuschat.com/threads/valvo...-oil-consumption-repair-or-prevention.211774/

I've seen on Toyota 2AZ-FE forums people suggesting using two gallons of the Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore along with the Fram Ultra XG3600.

Thanks again Gokhan! Great references.

 

[Salzamani]

POE and AN, which make up ¾ of the base oil of the Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore are seal swellers, with the remaining ¼ being PAO, which is a seal shrinker. Therefore, the overall effect will be a seal swell.

@The Critic, who is a professional mechanic, has run in it in his Gen 3 Prius for 10,000 miles. I don't think he's had any issues.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...emium-blue-restore-10w-30-9-861-miles.331194/

https://priuschat.com/threads/valvo...-oil-consumption-repair-or-prevention.211774/

I've seen on Toyota 2AZ-FE forums people suggesting using two gallons of the Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore along with the Fram Ultra XG3600.

Ok I finally had the time to read both threads and I must admit I’m a little concerned about the first thread by mechanic “the Critic” he did just recently report that his timing cover started to seep a little bit of oil (on post #20) like it was potentially the start of something I would hate to see. I absolutely hate oil leaks. I was gonna go straight down today my day off and pick up some of that VPBR. Am I being paranoid Gokhan?

 

[Gokhan]

Ok I finally had the time to read both threads and I must admit I’m a little concerned about the first thread by mechanic “the Critic” he did just recently report that his timing cover started to seep a little bit of oil (on post #20) like it was potentially the start of something I would hate to see. I absolutely hate oil leaks. I was gonna go straight down today my day off and pick up some of that VPBR. Am I being paranoid Gokhan?

Why don't you PM @The Critic and ask him? He's a pro mechanic. I doubt it will be an issue.

On a separate note, this patent discloses what is inside Auto-RX Plus. It is mostly a synthetic ester of Lanolin. Lanolin is a natural oil ester that comes from sheep's wool. It also has a lubricity-improver ester and an extreme-pressure ester.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6544349B1/en

 

[Salzamani]

I’ve been researching a bit more and have now discovered piston soaking technique?

As far as Toyota’s 2AZ-FE engine and it’s oil consumption issues goes what is more effective using this Valvoline Premium Blue Restore for 10k miles?

or

Piston soaking? (using an effective product to soak it with for 3 days or so)

 

[Salzamani]

Why don't you PM @The Critic and ask him? He's a pro mechanic. I doubt it will be an issue.

On a separate note, this patent discloses what is inside Auto-RX Plus. It is mostly a synthetic ester of Lanolin. Lanolin is a natural oil ester that comes from sheep's wool. It also has a lubricity-improver ester and an extreme-pressure ester.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6544349B1/en

Hey Gokhan, could I get your opinion on this. With Toyota’s 2AZ-FE engine is using this Valvoline Blue Premium Restore just as if not more effective to reach the piston rings and drain holes or do you think I might be better off using the best known product using the piston soak method to directly clean those areas?

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue Restore is not an engine-oil additive. It is a heavy-duty engine oil (HDEO). It's mostly POE with some AN and some PAO. It does not contain any Group III or GTL. This is why it is so expensive. POE is a very expensive base stock. It comes as a repair package with several gallon-size bottles (you need about fifteen gallons for a semi) and the Fleetguard LF14000NN oil filter to clean the carbon deposits in semi engines. It is a much cheaper alternative to an engine rebuild.

https://volvo.cummins.com/file/1380.pdf
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/africa/sites/cumminsfiltration.com.africa/files/PD10021.pdf

That's only part of the reason it is "so expensive". The other part is that the availability is restricted to parts stores at dealerships. The product is high quality no doubt, but cost of manufacturing is no where near the $76 retail price. There are offerings of Mobil 1 that also claim to remove sludge at a fraction of the price. Just saying...

And the good part is that you don't have to deal with the parts manager at a truck dealership that is usually an ignoramus and a complete tool in my personal experience...

Again, this OP would be better off ordering Kreen from a price point...

 

[Gokhan]

That's only part of the reason it is "so expensive". The other part is that the availability is restricted to parts stores at dealerships. The product is high quality no doubt, but cost of manufacturing is no where near the $76 retail price. There are offerings of Mobil 1 that also claim to remove sludge at a fraction of the price. Just saying...

And the good part is that you don't have to deal with the parts manager at a truck dealership that is usually an ignoramus and a complete tool in my personal experience...

Again, this OP would be better off ordering Kreen from a price point...

Of course, economics is always a factor, but keep in mind that POE costs several times as much to the oil blenders as PAO, which in turn costs several times as much as GTL or Group II. You're starting from a base oil that costs perhaps about six times as much as a conventional base oil.

 

[Gokhan]

Hey Gokhan, could I get your opinion on this. With Toyota’s 2AZ-FE engine is using this Valvoline Blue Premium Restore just as if not more effective to reach the piston rings and drain holes or do you think I might be better off using the best known product using the piston soak method to directly clean those areas?

I really don't know what is the best for you. However, I suspect that Cummins/Valvoline Premium Blue Restore (VPBR) is the easiest and most failsafe method and most likely to work among different product choices, as it has good solvency and used for the entire OCI. However, you don't know if your oil consumption is due to ring wear, for which carbon removal would do nothing to remedy it.

Something can always go wrong with piston soaks and/or aftermarket oil additives and they may lead to more problems at the end. They may also not work well.

You have many options: do nothing, sell the car, use the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, use the Auto-RX or a similar oil additive, do a piston soak with the Kreen or a similar product, etc. Perhaps go with the cheapest option for now.

 

[Salzamani]

I really don't know what is the best for you. However, I suspect that Cummins/Valvoline Premium Blue Restore (VPBR) is the easiest and most failsafe method and most likely to work among different product choices, as it has good solvency and used for the entire OCI. However, you don't know if your oil consumption is due to ring wear, for which carbon removal would do nothing to remedy it.

Something can always go wrong with piston soaks and/or aftermarket oil additives and they may lead to more problems at the end. They may also not work well.

You have many options: do nothing, sell the car, use the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, use the Auto-RX or a similar oil additive, do a piston soak with the Kreen or a similar product, etc. Perhaps go with the cheapest option for now.

Cheapest option is probably a logical thing to do and the next OCI with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40.

So I'm doing an experiment during this tank full. I'm driving the car with very low RPM (conserving fuel) and also seeing how much of an impacts that has on the oil consumption. I'm almost half away down on the tank already and can tell the fuel economy has improved to around estimating 24ish mpg. that's up 2+ from my aggressive style of driving. half of my commute is on the freeway and I'll tell ya its really hard for me to drive under 80. This 06 Scion tC is a 5 speed manual and at 80 I'm already above 4000 rpm. The next gen tC with the 6 speed manual sounds very desirable right now. They usually come at twice the price and that just Isn't a fair exchange right now. I just can't see how people are achieving close 30 mpg on this vehicle when that 5th gear is so tall. Anyways I will continue to watch fuel economy and oil consumption and will try what you suggested originally (Mobil 1 FS 0W-40) and if necessary will consider the VPBR in the future. That 2AR-FE engine which is in the second gen tC is SUPPOSE to better as far as oil consumption goes too, although there is a Toyota master tech on Youtube that goes against the grain and actually says it is worse than the first gen.

 

[Gokhan]

Cheapest option is probably a logical thing to do and the next OCI with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40.

So I'm doing an experiment during this tank full. I'm driving the car with very low RPM (conserving fuel) and also seeing how much of an impacts that has on the oil consumption. I'm almost half away down on the tank already and can tell the fuel economy has improved to around estimating 24ish mpg. that's up 2+ from my aggressive style of driving. half of my commute is on the freeway and I'll tell ya its really hard for me to drive under 80. This 06 Scion tC is a 5 speed manual and at 80 I'm already above 4000 rpm. The next gen tC with the 6 speed manual sounds very desirable right now. They usually come at twice the price and that just Isn't a fair exchange right now. I just can't see how people are achieving close 30 mpg on this vehicle when that 5th gear is so tall. Anyways I will continue to watch fuel economy and oil consumption and will try what you suggested originally (Mobil 1 FS 0W-40) and if necessary will consider the VPBR in the future. That 2AR-FE engine which is in the second gen tC is SUPPOSE to better as far as oil consumption goes too, although there is a Toyota master tech on Youtube that goes against the grain and actually says it is worse than the first gen.

When you go to Walmart to get the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 (two five-quart bottles at $24.97 each so that you can regularly top off), also get the oversized Fram Ultra XG3600 oil filter ($8.97). Do a 10,000-mile OCI, and the oversized Fram Ultra will safely and efficiently collect the carbon deposits removed by the POE in the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. Also note that the Fram Ultra XG3600 requires 10 ounces (0.3 quarts) more oil than the Toyota 90915-YZZF2 (superseded by 90915-YZZN1) does.

Repeat this for at least two more 10,000-mile OCIs, and hopefully some carbon deposits will be removed.

 

[Salzamani]

When you go to Walmart to get the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 (two five-quart bottles at $24.97 each so that you can regularly top off), also get the oversized Fram Ultra XG3600 oil filter ($8.97). Do a 10,000-mile OCI, and the oversized Fram Ultra will safely and efficiently collect the carbon deposits removed by the POE in the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. Also note that the Fram Ultra XG3600 requires 10 ounces (0.3 quarts) more oil than the Toyota 90915-YZZF2 (superseded by 90915-YZZN1) does.

Repeat this for at least two more 10,000-mile OCIs, and hopefully some carbon deposits will be removed.

Yes I’m familiar with those more expensive Fram filters. I’ll aim for that version since I’m gonna go to 10k. Are there a couple different version of that Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. In the past I’ve noticed them making like a high mileage one and maybe another one or two. Is there a certain one I should go after? Is there only one like a “European Formula”?

 

[Gokhan]

Yes I’m familiar with those more expensive Fram filters. I’ll aim for that version since I’m gonna go to 10k. Are there a couple different version of that Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. In the past I’ve noticed them making like a high mileage one and maybe another one or two. Is there a certain one I should go after? Is there only one like a “European Formula”?

LOL No, there have never been high-mileage and/or extended-performance versions of the Mobil 1 Euro oils (formally known as Mobil 1 ESP (mid-SAPS) and Mobil 1 FS (full-SAPS) oils). High-mileage and/or extended-performance oil is an American thing. Euro oils are extended-performance and high-mileage by definition.

 

[Salzamani]

LOL No, there have never been high-mileage and/or extended-performance versions of the Mobil 1 Euro oils (formally known as Mobil 1 ESP (mid-SAPS) and Mobil 1 FS (full-SAPS) oils). High-mileage and/or extended-performance oil is an American thing. Euro oils are extended-performance and high-mileage b

LOL No, there have never been high-mileage and/or extended-performance versions of the Mobil 1 Euro oils (formally known as Mobil 1 ESP (mid-SAPS) and Mobil 1 FS (full-SAPS) oils). High-mileage and/or extended-performance oil is an American thing. Euro oils are extended-performance and high-mileage by definition.

so as long as I find a 0W-40 version of the Mobil 1 FS I’m good to go right?

 

[Gokhan]

Yes, there is only one Mobil 1 0W-40 ACEA A3/B4. (There is a Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 ACEA C3, but you won't find it at Walmart.) A while back they added FS in the name, meaning full-SAPS, which refers to ACEA A3/B4. There was a formulation change associated with the name change, and I think there was another formulation change recently. However, yes, there is only one Mobil 1 0W-40 ACEA A3/B4, which goes by the official name Mobil 1 FS 0W-40.