The new Passat does as well. From '98-'05, the Passat was a modified Audi.
Passat 2.8L V6 eats 5W-30 like it's nothing!
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The new Passat does as well. From '98-'05, the Passat was a modified Audi.
Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna look up the VW502.00 spec and try to pick a more appropriate oil, and hopefully consumption will go back to normal. German Castrol for a German engine? Maybe I'll try that first.
It's true, I shouldn't generalize all German cars, but my 2.8L 30V V6 has had numerous misfiring issues within the first three years of ownership (bought new). I've also had ECU problems (which were fixed under warranty) regarding catalytic converter inefficiency, and it caused me to fail an emissions test and suffer several CELs. And I admit I'm a little bitter over the quality of service at the dealerships I've been to.
I love the euro-charm and power of some German cars, but the one thing I hate is that they are so difficult to DIY in comparison to an import. It almost seems like the engineers purposely made it difficult so you would have to take it to the dealer.
I do agree in a certain capacity; my car feels somewhat ordinary in stop-and-go traffic. However, in wide open throttle, there is no lack of pep at low rpms in the first two gears. VW is about low-end torque, Honda is about high-end horsepower. Two ways of achieving the same goal.
Once again, you must compare two vehicles with as much similar equipment as possible, for the sake of accuracy. DSG (which is quite impressive, by the way) requires no driver skill; you must compare both cars with 6-speed manuals, driven by the same driver.
Not true at all. Honda's 8,000rpm is reliably reached through a fully-balanced, shot-peened, forged steel crankshaft. The intake manifold runners are designed for high-rpm breathing. The compression ratio is 11:1, and all conditions are controlled with a MAP/MAF combo. Every element of this drivetrain is designed with high-rpm performance in mind.
Also, any major modification like aggressive camshafts require tuning, using a shop with a dyno and knowledgeable tuners. You will severely distort the torque curve with new hardware, and it's quite possible to gain peak horsepower while losing overall engine performance, creating a slower car.
Same can be said of VW tuners. At least, from what I see at VWVortex.com.
I completely agree. I find many Honda tuners modify their cars with tasteless abandon, substituting fake carbon fiber anywhere they can. It's quite a shame.
I was amazed when I first read about the Audi V12 TDIs consistently winning in Le Mans, what an achievement for diesel supporters! Yes, the torque plays a large role, but again, it's not about peak figures, it's about the total package. Rules and regulations in Le Mans prevent the cars from being too dissimilar to each other, as most specifications are capped to prevent unfair advantages, so you can't really use this as comparison. Audi gambled with the all-aluminum diesels and won out over the competition.
"No replacement for displacement" is a widely accepted adage, and it's mostly true. But again, the 2.8L VR6 vs. the 2.2L F22 (S2000) shows that, as technology progresses, the old rules don't necessarily apply.
VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) vehicles, in general, have been notorious for bad reliability. I know people that drive them and they usually have some problem that needs fixed. Even worse, these machines are very difficult to work on yourself. I know a guy with a TDI who's valves and pistons decided to have a conversation after he replaced his timing belt (the outcome was pretty ugly). My best friend just spent over 3 days replacing a thermostat on an A6. You have to remove the bumper, lock the crank, lock the cams, remove the timing belt(!), pull some other ---- off and finally, you can get to the thermostat that's sitting on the front side of the block. Remarkably, it went back together and is running fine. If you want reliability, as you already know, get a Honda or Toyota. Oh, and back to the question at hand, if you want to stick with a 30 weight, German Castrol would probably be your best bet. Otherwise, I agree that you need a 40 weight to satisfy that engine.
I had a 1995 Volvo 850 turbo that ate oil like crazy late in its life. Tried GC, M1 0w-40 and even havoline dino to no avail. The one oil that slowed consumption to a trickle was Synpower 5w-40, which is VW502 approved.
BTW, help me out here: how does someone this knowledgeable about engines exercise this much neglect so as to allow the oil level to reach dangerous levels? I'm not trying to be hard on you, I just don't understand.
BTW, help me out here: how does someone this knowledgeable about engines exercise this much neglect so as to allow the oil level to reach dangerous levels? I'm not trying to be hard on you, I just don't understand.
tele, change to a 5W-40 VW 502 oil to start with. Then, at about 5K miles pull and oil sample and send it to Terry Dyson for analysis.
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Uh, no.
VAG = Volkswagen AG
AG = Aktiengesellschaft (= corporation)
Audi AG is an own entity, owned by VW. Porsche AG owns now over 30% of VW stock and may eventually take over VW.
Those are both good advise. I don't see why you don't just throw some 5W-40 Synpower or Rotella in there and be done with it. Not all engines are designed to run on that thin 5W-30. Myself, I don't even consider 5W-40 to be a thick oil, but I'm kind of old school.
I guess what it boils down to is... I have to go to Walmart and find a suitable 5W-40 502.00 oil. Rotella, GC, SynPower; whatever is available.
I've never had to cater to an engine's tastes before. I'm a Honda man through and through, and their engines take pretty much anything, so I don't have much experience with picking the "right" oil. I feel like I'm this guy:
I didn't go so far as to explain this before, but the Passat is not my vehicle. I am "holding onto it" for a friend for a few years until he returns from Europe. I rarely drive it; usually only when I need the wagon's cargo space. And, I have a couple of other cars I am obsessed with at the moment, so I end up neglecting the Vee-Dub.
Now that you mention it, it's not very becoming of a car enthusiast, is it?
I've never had to cater to an engine's tastes before. I'm a Honda man through and through, and their engines take pretty much anything, so I don't have much experience with picking the "right" oil. I feel like I'm this guy:
I didn't go so far as to explain this before, but the Passat is not my vehicle. I am "holding onto it" for a friend for a few years until he returns from Europe. I rarely drive it; usually only when I need the wagon's cargo space. And, I have a couple of other cars I am obsessed with at the moment, so I end up neglecting the Vee-Dub.
Now that you mention it, it's not very becoming of a car enthusiast, is it?
I think it is hilarious that you feel that you are in a position to judge what is tasteful and what deserves respect, a tuned car is an individual form of expression. What makes your idea of what is good better than anyone else's? It is this holier than thou attitude that makes me laugh every time I have an argument with a VW person after they diss Honda.
Also, you can't reasonably compare a DSG equipped GTi to a Civic Si, you need to compare the six speed GTi vs. Si to have a valid comparison.
Next, your argument about the R10 being better than a gas LeMans prototype because of torque holds absolutely no water. The ACO decided to stack the deck in favor of diesel prototypes at LeMans because diesels constitute over 50% of cars on the road in Europe. Because of this a diesel prototype engine can be much larger (5.5L), run more boost, use larger air restrictors, and have a larger fuel tank than an equal gasoline powered prototype. With equitable regulations a gas engine would always be faster than a diesel engine in a race car because the engine and transmission would be considerably lighter and have higher output and a larger usable powerband. You don't need much torque to make a race car fast because they aren't very heavy, look at F1 for an example in that. A modern F1 engine makes less than 250lb/ft of torque at a stratospheric 19,000rpm yet are easily the fastest race cars on the planet because they weigh around 1300lbs with a driver and fuel. VWs often need more torque because they are consistently among the heaviest cars in their class.
Finally, your line "there is no replacement for displacement" is ironic as VW has recently been focusing a majority of their engineering on designing small engines that have respectable power output and good fuel economy IE: the 1.4L "Twin Charged" gasoline engine available in Europe.
It is obvious that you are a very passionate about VW and don't like it when someone challenges your favorite brand. I understand completely as I am the same way about Honda (and to a lesser extent Subaru and BMW). But realizing this fact, you can't reasonably expect to change anyone's mind on the subject as we can't expect to change yours. The thing that made me jump at your argument was your attitude of superiority (which I deal with daily from my Eurocentric car enthusiast friends).
Jon
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You can pick up Synpower 5w-40 at Napa autoparts. They usually have it on the shelves. Another option is maxlife synthetic 10w-30 which you can get at Walmart. While the latter has not been officially tested for VW502, it is recommended for engines requiring the spec, because according to a valvoline tech I spoke to, the maxlife syn has the same basic chemistry as the synpoweer 5w-40.
I would use some 15w-40 or 10w-40 HM until consumption ceases, not synth. For now, you could add some Valvoline SynPower Oil Treatment or MaxLife Engine Protector to thicken the oil. Auto-Rx with 15w-40 or 10w-40 dino oil is another way to go.
If it isn't VW certified will the engine be covered if it fails with this oil in it?
Jon
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From how I interpret the label on the Valvoline 5W-40 bottle, this oils is also not VW certified. It may well (I have no reason to believe otherwise, and I use this oil) meet the VW 502 et all performance requirements, but Valvoline likely didn't want to pay for official VW approval. If the oil were approved by VW, it surely would say that on the bottle.
F1 fanatic...I don't care who you are, or what you drive, but if your expression of yourself is a muffler the size of my fist that farts, and you find a bench on your trunk stylish, and fake carbon fiber, and being dangerously lowered on cheap parts or even worse cut suspension components, then your expression of your self sv<ks.
Jon,
It really depends on the service advisor. My service advisor is cool with the Maxlife synthetic because he just needs to see it on the bottle and doesn't care whether it's "recommended" or "approved". But other advisors are more anal.
Mori,
The valv tech I spoke to said that Synpower 5w-40 is the only NA valvoline oil that has been approved by VW (almost exact words). He was very clear in making the distinction between synpower and maxlife saying that the maxlife only meets (but has not been approved by VW) the specs. Considering that this oil is also on the sludge list, my assumption is that it has been approved by VW.
It really depends on the service advisor. My service advisor is cool with the Maxlife synthetic because he just needs to see it on the bottle and doesn't care whether it's "recommended" or "approved". But other advisors are more anal.
Mori,
The valv tech I spoke to said that Synpower 5w-40 is the only NA valvoline oil that has been approved by VW (almost exact words). He was very clear in making the distinction between synpower and maxlife saying that the maxlife only meets (but has not been approved by VW) the specs. Considering that this oil is also on the sludge list, my assumption is that it has been approved by VW.
I am glad you feel that way, I am sure everyone who modifies their car does so thinking "Will KieferS on Bob Is The Oil Guy approve of what I do?!??!".
Jon
I think it would've been nice if this thread remained about the 2003 Volkswagen Passat in question and kept the Honda the [censored] out of it.
HA! you call that modifying? Thats not modifying. Get real.
I frikin' swear, the SAME DAY after Fast and the furious came out, when i was like, i don't know, 14 or 15, I came out the mall the theater was in, got in my moms car, sat in the passenger seat and as i was fiddling with the radio, i saw 3 KIDS GET IN A WRECK.
RIGHT THERE
Smart kid in his civic pulled the hand brake up around the parking lot turning right at the end of the road, the other kid tried to do the same while also turning right and he clipped his rear end, the first guy fish tailed and got hit from the side FROM ANOTHER GUY IN AN ACCORD WITH NEON LIGHTS
THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE,3 or 4 years later, it still brings me to TEARS
If everyone cared about what i thought, this world would be a much better place.
I frikin' swear, the SAME DAY after Fast and the furious came out, when i was like, i don't know, 14 or 15, I came out the mall the theater was in, got in my moms car, sat in the passenger seat and as i was fiddling with the radio, i saw 3 KIDS GET IN A WRECK.
RIGHT THERE
Smart kid in his civic pulled the hand brake up around the parking lot turning right at the end of the road, the other kid tried to do the same while also turning right and he clipped his rear end, the first guy fish tailed and got hit from the side FROM ANOTHER GUY IN AN ACCORD WITH NEON LIGHTS
THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE,3 or 4 years later, it still brings me to TEARS
If everyone cared about what i thought, this world would be a much better place.
The TS took it there, IMO then it is fair game.
I do agree that Honda vs. VW is
though.
Jon
Jon
KieferS - For every brand of auto there are going to be those that do tasteless modifications and give them a bad name. It's not just Hondas, it's every make out there. That doesn't make them a bad car by any means or instantly mean that every owner is like that. For instance, my car is completely stock. And I'm happy with it that way. It has plenty of performance right out of the box.
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