Owner denied warranty for being outside OCI by 600 miles and short tripping.

Another thing that seems odd to me is that this is reported to be a CX-50. (introduced in 2022, so it can only be a couple years old ...)
Being so new in design, would it not have an IOLM ??? Not a OLM, but an "intelligent" one?

If so, why would they need the "severe service" disclaimer? Shouldn't the IOLM keep track of the use factors and adjust the OCI accordingly???

Does anyone have a CX-50 and know if there is an IOLM?
 
CarlB said:
Hey, have the typical "didn't happen" skepticism. Conspiracy of fabricated Mazda response.

Time for some BITOG bingo cards?
Click to expand...
So let it be written....so let it be done...

download.webp
 
Very odd to me that a company would use an OLM that would allow the customer to go past the severe service limit, if the vehicle was operated under severe service. Isn't that the whole point? Anything else is just a mileage counter.
 
First of all, we have no idea if this report is really true or not, but for the sake of BITOG chatter, we'll just play along here with the minimal info we have.



Here is the info from the 2024 CX-50 manual. I have to presume the 2023 and 2022 are very similar if not identical. (we don't know the MY of the car in question, so it's kinda moot ...)

Sec 6-2:
" Claims against the warranty resulting from lack of maintenance, as opposed to defective materials or authorized workmanship, will not be honored."

"Scheduled Maintenance (U.S.A. and Puerto Rico) Vehicles utilizing the vehicle status monitor feature: The vehicle status monitor feature alerts you of maintenance needs by turning on the wrench indicator light or displaying a message in the instrument panel, or both. Every maintenance must be done when the display/wrench indication comes on.The display/wrench indication will come on before reaching the maximum interval of 16,000 km (10,000 miles), or 12 months (after the previous maintenance).

If you drive your vehicle under any of the following conditions, follow the Severe Driving Scheduled Maintenance and replace the engine oil and filter every 8,000 km (5,000 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first.
1. The vehicle is idled for long periods or driven at low speeds, such as with police cars, taxis, or driver's education school car.
2. Driving under dusty conditions.
3. Driving for long periods in cold temperatures or driving regularly for short distances only.
4. Driving under extremely high temperature conditions.
5. Driving continuously in mountainous regions.
If you are following the Severe Driving Scheduled Maintenance (8,000 km (5,000miles) or 6 months oil replacement interval), set the vehicle status monitor manually. Refer to the Information section in the Mazda Connect Owner's Manual. Please contact an Authorized Mazda Dealer if necessary"


So I have a few questions ...
Where are the following terms defined? (Hint ... I don't see the definitions in the owner's manual ...)
"dusty conditions" (how much dust exists be to "dusty")
"long periods" (is this an hour? 5 hours? 12 hours?)
"regular" (what is this, versus irregular?)
"cold temperatures" (is this 50F, 20F, -10F ???)
"short distances" (is this 1 mile? 5 miles? 10 miles?)
"extremely high temperature conditions" (is this aove 60F, 80F, or 100F ?)
"diving continuously" (as opposed to what; what's "continuously mean here?)

These are all very subjective, ambiguous terms. What is "hot" to one person is not "hot" to another; ask someone on the Maine coast about hot versus someone in Tucson. What is "cold" to one is not "cold" to another; someone in AK may have a different idea than someone in FL. And most importantly, "short distances" is not at all defined. Someone who lives in a downtown urban area has one idea of what a "short distance" is, but someone who lives in remote WY or MT has a completely different idea of "short distance" (It's just 58 miles into town; a short drive ...). And for goodness sake, what is "driving continuously" even mean? Like the engine is never shut off? Or does that just mean one hour a day???

The owner's manual leaves a LOT of wiggle room for the OE, but it ALSO gives a lot of wiggle room to the user/owner to make counter claims. And if an IOLM is present, why wouldn't the owner just say "Hey, I changed the oil as soon as practical after the little light came on. You can't expect me to pull off the side of the road and call for a tow truck just because the light came on. I made an appointment and had the service done at the dealer. Is your product not capable of going a few hundred miles past the light coming on?"

AND ... if the owner was taking his car to the dealer for service, as the report indicates, did the dealer ever say "Hey Mr. Man, you're overrunning your maintenance and you should be on the servere schedule."? If the dealer was doing the service, doesn't he have some skin in the game? If the car's IOLM isn't indicating a change is due RIGHT NOW, and the dealer is just resetting the IOLM, then how is the owner gonna know he's "severe" by those incredibly ambiguous terms? What if the salesman just said "bring your car in when the light comes on and we'll get your service done." Would that not indicate that the IOLM is to be followed? Why would the owner think anything other than "believe the little light and everything will be OK"?

After all, right on page 6-11 is says this:
"If you are unsure about any servicing or maintenance procedure, have it done by an Authorized Mazda Dealer ... We recommend that you entrust the oil and fluid changes of your vehicle to an Authorized Mazda Dealer."

If the owner did just that, if he followed the little IOLM service light and took it to the dealer, I'd think he'd have a very strong case in arbitration.
 
Last edited:
Great read for those who are curious about the warranty denial arbitration process, this is exactly how it works from the customer’s point of view. The ruling is also typical in my experience as I have been on the dealer side of this.

Honda Warranty and NCDS Story​

This entire process just wrapped up for me and there's not much online about the NCDS arbitration process so I figured this was a good place to share.

TLDR: Dealership and Honda corporate denied my warranty claim, but I fought it in NCDS arbitration and won.

So I have a 2020 Honda Civic Sport with the 6-speed manual transmission. It's an absolutely amazing car and has been a joy to drive. Until recently. With just over 22,000 miles on it, the clutch started slipping. I would be driving on the highway and trying to accelerate, but it would do so very slowly and the engine revs would shoot up. I realized this was a problem and found out it was the clutch slipping after some research, so I took it into the dealership as soon as I could.

At the dealership, they confirmed that it was the clutch slipping, but denied to cover it under warranty. They claimed both that it was a wearable part so it wasn't covered and that the damage was caused by user error. I argued this with the dealership because I don't ride the clutch, I don't race the car, and don't do anything reckless. The service manager told me that this is just the way it is and if I have a problem, to take it up with corporate.

And so I did. I called the Honda service number in the warranty booklet and the first person I talked to said that this issue should be covered under warranty. With this information, I called back the dealership and was rudely told that corporate was wrong and that this would not be covered. I called corporate again, hoping to file a claim for the dealership wrongfully denying my warranty. Instead, I was told by corporate that this issue was not covered and they misspoke before hand.

With this, I kinda just thought I was SOL and would have to take it to a mechanic to get it fixed, which was quoted at $1600, far less than the $3600 Honda wanted but still a lot of money. Then, upon reading the warranty booklet again, I found out about the NCDS arbitration process.

This process is a 3rd party mediation process where you present your case before an arbitrator and he will give a decision that is binding for Honda, but not for the individual, so small claims is still an option if the NCDS denies your case. I did some research about this process, but did not find much online to guide me. I filed a claim anyway, not expecting much out of this process.

In filing the claim, you fill out the form on the NCDS website and tell your side of the story, what the problem with the car is, why you think it should be covered under warranty, etc. I filled this claim and within a week got a response from Honda, saying they wanted to try to come to an agreement outside of this system.

I got a call from a Honda mediation specialist, which I thought would go somewhere, but he simply reaffirmed what the dealership had told me, that Honda didn't believe this was an issue with these cars and intended to fight this through arbitration.

So we got our arbitration scheduled over teleconference call and I didn't hear back from Honda until the day before, when they sent their 'manufacturer response form' less than 24 hours before the arbitration. In this form, they made multiple claims, saying that it was definitively caused by abuse, that it was a wearable part, that I did not service my car because I never took it for service at a Honda dealership, that body damage from a no-fault accident proved that I drove my car in an abusive way, etc.

So I spent the next hours reading through this and figuring out ways to fight every point they were trying to argue. They thought that they could gain an edge by sending this in at the last minute and I was determined to take this away.

We get to the arbitration and it is me, my father, two representatives from Honda, and the arbitrator on the line. First, I gave me side of the story, explaining the issues I had with the car and why I believed it should be covered under warranty. Then Honda had the chance to ask clarifying questions, and they had none.

After this, Honda gave their side of the story, explaining the form that they had sent in the day before. Then, we were given the chance to ask clarifying questions. This was the most important part of the arbitration. We attacked every point that they tried to make. We asked them for definitive evidence that it was abuse and they had none because THEY NEVER EVEN LOOKED AT THE CLUTCH PLATE, the very part they claimed wasn't defective. The only evidence they had was that there was excessive clutch dust in the transmission housing, which comes from the clutch wearing down and is not a sign of abuse.

We asked where in the warranty does it say that the clutch is a wearable part and they had no answer, because it is not in the warranty. We asked if there was any service that should have been done to the clutch so soon (given that on Honda's website, the listed lifetime of the clutch is 100-120k miles), and the Honda rep had to answer no. We attacked their claims that I drove the car recklessly and that I didn't service my car, making it clear that they had no real evidence of this.

After question time, both sides were able to make a closing statement. This is time to tell your side of the story and your interpretation of the evidence, how it fits your claim. I brought up how they had no evidence that ruled out a defective part and no evidence that I drove the car recklessly, even pointing out that a Honda employee at a dealership taught me to drive stick.

Then Honda gave their closing, restating their argument which basically boiled down to "our clutches don't fail and this 19-year old kid's did, so it must have been abuse."

The arbitration ended after closings and we were told that the ruling would be out in 10 business days.

In just five business days, we got our ruling, stating that my request for repair was awarded! The arbitrator did not see enough evidence to support Honda's conjecture that this was not a defect.

So final thoughts on this: it's a long process and that's by design because Honda doesn't want people to use it. It takes time and money for them. And they will play dirty every step of the way, lodging personal attacks and bringing forward "evidence" to make you look worse. They'll release their report just the day before the hearing so that you are unprepared. But if you have the time and know that your are right, you can win.
 
Glenda W. said:
Great read for those who are curious about the warranty denial arbitration process, this is exactly how it works from the customer’s point of view. The ruling is also typical in my experience as I have been on the dealer side of this.

Honda Warranty and NCDS Story​

This entire process just wrapped up for me and there's not much online about the NCDS arbitration process so I figured this was a good place to share.

TLDR: Dealership and Honda corporate denied my warranty claim, but I fought it in NCDS arbitration and won.

So I have a 2020 Honda Civic Sport with the 6-speed manual transmission. It's an absolutely amazing car and has been a joy to drive. Until recently. With just over 22,000 miles on it, the clutch started slipping. I would be driving on the highway and trying to accelerate, but it would do so very slowly and the engine revs would shoot up. I realized this was a problem and found out it was the clutch slipping after some research, so I took it into the dealership as soon as I could.

At the dealership, they confirmed that it was the clutch slipping, but denied to cover it under warranty. They claimed both that it was a wearable part so it wasn't covered and that the damage was caused by user error. I argued this with the dealership because I don't ride the clutch, I don't race the car, and don't do anything reckless. The service manager told me that this is just the way it is and if I have a problem, to take it up with corporate.

And so I did. I called the Honda service number in the warranty booklet and the first person I talked to said that this issue should be covered under warranty. With this information, I called back the dealership and was rudely told that corporate was wrong and that this would not be covered. I called corporate again, hoping to file a claim for the dealership wrongfully denying my warranty. Instead, I was told by corporate that this issue was not covered and they misspoke before hand.

With this, I kinda just thought I was SOL and would have to take it to a mechanic to get it fixed, which was quoted at $1600, far less than the $3600 Honda wanted but still a lot of money. Then, upon reading the warranty booklet again, I found out about the NCDS arbitration process.

This process is a 3rd party mediation process where you present your case before an arbitrator and he will give a decision that is binding for Honda, but not for the individual, so small claims is still an option if the NCDS denies your case. I did some research about this process, but did not find much online to guide me. I filed a claim anyway, not expecting much out of this process.

In filing the claim, you fill out the form on the NCDS website and tell your side of the story, what the problem with the car is, why you think it should be covered under warranty, etc. I filled this claim and within a week got a response from Honda, saying they wanted to try to come to an agreement outside of this system.

I got a call from a Honda mediation specialist, which I thought would go somewhere, but he simply reaffirmed what the dealership had told me, that Honda didn't believe this was an issue with these cars and intended to fight this through arbitration.

So we got our arbitration scheduled over teleconference call and I didn't hear back from Honda until the day before, when they sent their 'manufacturer response form' less than 24 hours before the arbitration. In this form, they made multiple claims, saying that it was definitively caused by abuse, that it was a wearable part, that I did not service my car because I never took it for service at a Honda dealership, that body damage from a no-fault accident proved that I drove my car in an abusive way, etc.

So I spent the next hours reading through this and figuring out ways to fight every point they were trying to argue. They thought that they could gain an edge by sending this in at the last minute and I was determined to take this away.

We get to the arbitration and it is me, my father, two representatives from Honda, and the arbitrator on the line. First, I gave me side of the story, explaining the issues I had with the car and why I believed it should be covered under warranty. Then Honda had the chance to ask clarifying questions, and they had none.

After this, Honda gave their side of the story, explaining the form that they had sent in the day before. Then, we were given the chance to ask clarifying questions. This was the most important part of the arbitration. We attacked every point that they tried to make. We asked them for definitive evidence that it was abuse and they had none because THEY NEVER EVEN LOOKED AT THE CLUTCH PLATE, the very part they claimed wasn't defective. The only evidence they had was that there was excessive clutch dust in the transmission housing, which comes from the clutch wearing down and is not a sign of abuse.

We asked where in the warranty does it say that the clutch is a wearable part and they had no answer, because it is not in the warranty. We asked if there was any service that should have been done to the clutch so soon (given that on Honda's website, the listed lifetime of the clutch is 100-120k miles), and the Honda rep had to answer no. We attacked their claims that I drove the car recklessly and that I didn't service my car, making it clear that they had no real evidence of this.

After question time, both sides were able to make a closing statement. This is time to tell your side of the story and your interpretation of the evidence, how it fits your claim. I brought up how they had no evidence that ruled out a defective part and no evidence that I drove the car recklessly, even pointing out that a Honda employee at a dealership taught me to drive stick.

Then Honda gave their closing, restating their argument which basically boiled down to "our clutches don't fail and this 19-year old kid's did, so it must have been abuse."

The arbitration ended after closings and we were told that the ruling would be out in 10 business days.

In just five business days, we got our ruling, stating that my request for repair was awarded! The arbitrator did not see enough evidence to support Honda's conjecture that this was not a defect.

So final thoughts on this: it's a long process and that's by design because Honda doesn't want people to use it. It takes time and money for them. And they will play dirty every step of the way, lodging personal attacks and bringing forward "evidence" to make you look worse. They'll release their report just the day before the hearing so that you are unprepared. But if you have the time and know that your are right, you can win.
Click to expand...
19 year old never driven a stick? Yeah, he toasted it....HAHAHAAHHA. J/K - good story to read and see how the process works.
 
zzyzzx said:
Even if they had changed their oil on average less than 5000 miles, Mazda would have made up another reason to deny the warranty.
Click to expand...
How do you know this? Is this something Mazda does, find reasons to deny claims when maintenance has been done properly?
 
This is why I change my own oil. No dealer to log it into their system. I usually don’t go over, ever. But, if I did the manufacturer would never know it. My 24 is setting at 8500, the OLM when reset is good for 10k under perfect circumstances. I’ve done 2 oil changes so far and have receipts for 80k worth of oil and filters. I vlog the miles before and after and log it into car fax. Something sounds way off here. Either this story is far fetched or Mazdas are like glass slippers. I had an 03 Altima that never had the pre cat issue but spoke with my tech many times about it. At 1st Nissan was doing anything and everything they could to pin it on the owners. Towards the end they just threw their hands up.
 
dnewton3 said:
First of all, we have no idea if this report is really true or not, but for the sake of BITOG chatter, we'll just play along here with the minimal info we have.



Here is the info from the 2024 CX-50 manual. I have to presume the 2023 and 2022 are very similar if not identical. (we don't know the MY of the car in question, so it's kinda moot ...)

Sec 6-2:
" Claims against the warranty resulting from lack of maintenance, as opposed to defective materials or authorized workmanship, will not be honored."

"Scheduled Maintenance (U.S.A. and Puerto Rico) Vehicles utilizing the vehicle status monitor feature: The vehicle status monitor feature alerts you of maintenance needs by turning on the wrench indicator light or displaying a message in the instrument panel, or both. Every maintenance must be done when the display/wrench indication comes on.The display/wrench indication will come on before reaching the maximum interval of 16,000 km (10,000 miles), or 12 months (after the previous maintenance).

If you drive your vehicle under any of the following conditions, follow the Severe Driving Scheduled Maintenance and replace the engine oil and filter every 8,000 km (5,000 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first.
1. The vehicle is idled for long periods or driven at low speeds, such as with police cars, taxis, or driver's education school car.
2. Driving under dusty conditions.
3. Driving for long periods in cold temperatures or driving regularly for short distances only.
4. Driving under extremely high temperature conditions.
5. Driving continuously in mountainous regions.
If you are following the Severe Driving Scheduled Maintenance (8,000 km (5,000miles) or 6 months oil replacement interval), set the vehicle status monitor manually. Refer to the Information section in the Mazda Connect Owner's Manual. Please contact an Authorized Mazda Dealer if necessary"


So I have a few questions ...
Where are the following terms defined? (Hint ... I don't see the definitions in the owner's manual ...)
"dusty conditions" (how much dust exists be to "dusty")
"long periods" (is this an hour? 5 hours? 12 hours?)
"regular" (what is this, versus irregular?)
"cold temperatures" (is this 50F, 20F, -10F ???)
"short distances" (is this 1 mile? 5 miles? 10 miles?)
"extremely high temperature conditions" (is this aove 60F, 80F, or 100F ?)
"diving continuously" (as opposed to what; what's "continuously mean here?)

These are all very subjective, ambiguous terms. What is "hot" to one person is not "hot" to another; ask someone on the Maine coast about hot versus someone in Tucson. What is "cold" to one is not "cold" to another; someone in AK may have a different idea than someone in FL. And most importantly, "short distances" is not at all defined. Someone who lives in a downtown urban area has one idea of what a "short distance" is, but someone who lives in remote WY or MT has a completely different idea of "short distance" (It's just 58 miles into town; a short drive ...). And for goodness sake, what is "driving continuously" even mean? Like the engine is never shut off? Or does that just mean one hour a day???

The owner's manual leaves a LOT of wiggle room for the OE, but it ALSO gives a lot of wiggle room to the user/owner make counter claims. And if an IOLM is present, why wouldn't the owner just say "Hey, I changed the oil as soon as practical after the little light came on. You can't expect me to pull off the side of the road and call for a tow truck just because the light came on. I made an appointment and had the service done at the dealer. Is your product not capable of going a few hundred miles past the light coming on?"

AND ... if the owner was taking his car to the dealer for service, as the report indicates, did the dealer ever say "Hey Mr. Man, you're overrunning your maintenance and you should be on the servere schedule."? If the dealer was doing the service, doesn't he have some skin in the game? If the car's IOLM isn't indicating a change is due RIGHT NOW, and the dealer is just resetting the IOLM, then how is the owner gonna know he's "severe" by those incredibly ambiguous terms? What if the salesman just said "bring your car in when the light comes on and we'll get your service done." Would that not indicate that the IOLM is to be followed? Why would the owner think anything other than "believe the little light and everything will be OK"?

After all, right on page 6-11 is says this:
"If you are unsure about any servicing or maintenance procedure, have it done by an Authorized Mazda Dealer ... We recommend that you entrust the oil and fluid changes of your vehicle to an Authorized Mazda Dealer."

If the owner did just that, if he followed the little IOLM service light and took it to the dealer, I'd think he'd have a very strong case in arbitration.
Click to expand...
1737062848114.webp

Here is the block diagram for Mazda's Oil Life Monitor, so it should be intelligent enough to account for all the variable except dusty conditions with the deterioration determination block. I'm assuming the deterioration determination block has access to all the sensors in the PCM so it can calculate a deterioration factor.
 
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