Oil reccomendation for 2011 NA Subaru Forester

[DR Racing]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: DR Racing
Have the car manufactures tested 20w out to 20 years and 300k miles of consumer use? No they have not!!! I will keep 30w in my cars until the day comes when we all know the long term effects of 20w oils.


Sure they have. There's been real world testing with such weights and miles. There are a lot of taxis and police interceptors in North America that have used 5w-20 and been retired on that weight, with engines in perfect working order.

With respect to your vehicles, however, I'd agree with you. The makes and vintages suggest thicker oil. I'm not going to try 5w-20 in a Ferrari anytime soon, nor would I use it in my old Audi (even though it's within the acceptable range). I would use it without question in a vehicle for which it has been specified as the primary or sole viscosity.


Miles is one thing but 20 years is another. All of your examples are vehicles that are used continually where the engines spend most of there time fully warmed up.

A soccer mom in a mini van is a much better example who drives 4 blocks to the bus stop and back and then shuts it off. If I owned a new Honda hybrid (God forbid) I would run 30w.

Cavit I already read the 101 thing and I don't buy his arguments

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: cavitating
Go to the link below and you will have a better understanding of oil viscosities, why it can make sense to use a 0W-20 in a Ferrari and possibly your Audi.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/


I've read all that. There certainly are compelling reasons (and situations) to use a 0w-20 in my Audi. There are, however, more compelling reasons not to. If I were short tripping with lots of cold starts in our -40 C winters, I'd use it without hesitation. Since it's always been in a heated shop and has an oil pan heater for the rare situation it's not, the 0w-20 isn't as necessary. For my driving habits, the best choice (where price wasn't a concern) would be a quality 0w-40 synthetic. The conventional option I used was either a 5w-30 or 10w-30 in winter (as per the manual's chart) and 15w-40 in the summer. Since I don't short trip, the light weight would just get consumed. 40 weights would be in service with very little consumption, with no addition needed over an OCI; 30 weights needed a top up. Don't trade protection for consumption reduction? I've heard that before. It has 250,000 km on the engine, and the engine is in perfect condition and is the strongest and most durable component in my vehicle, by far.

Originally Posted By: DR Racing
Miles is one thing but 20 years is another. All of your examples are vehicles that are used continually where the engines spend most of there time fully warmed up.

A soccer mom in a mini van is a much better example who drives 4 blocks to the bus stop and back and then shuts it off. If I owned a new Honda hybrid (God forbid) I would run 30w.


You have it backwards. The vehicles that are used continually and have their engines almost always at operating temperature have a lot less need for a 0w-xx or a 5w-xx anything. In fact, they're the only reasonable candidates for a straight weight. If it's speced for a 5w-20 and it's going to be running all the time at optimal temperatures, there's no need to go thicker than recommended nor, for that matter, to switch to an expensive 0w-20 for cold starting benefits.

For the soccer mom who starts cold, drives four blocks, and then shuts off her vehicle, she should be using a 0w-20 oil, and that would apply to my 40-weight preferring Audi, if it were driven in such a fashion. As others have pointed out, even a 0w-20 is far thicker at room temperature than is a 20w-50 at operating temperature.

Fuel dilution is a consideration, but only to a point. Fuel dilution isn't terribly desirable, regardless of the viscosity of the oil. A soccer mom short tripping would be better served by more frequent oil changes or switching her driving habits, rather than switching from a recommended 0w-20 or 5w-20 to a thicker oil.

0w-20 and 5w-20 aren't the holy grail of oils, and certainly not ideal for every engine. For most engines where they are recommended, they're the best choice. There certainly are exceptions where 5w-20 is recommended but far from optimal that some could point out - the Mazda RX-8 comes to mind - but automatically thinking that the manufacturers are dead wrong, and that we should blindly run to a thinner or thicker oil is, I think, misguided.

If I had a Ford or Subaru that recommended 5w-20 or 0w-20, I'd use it without hesitation, and wouldn't deviate much under warranty. Warranty considerations aside, there had better be an actual issue that one is trying to address. I realize many engines specify different oils elsewhere in the world, or even a few years ago, with time being the only variable, not the engine design. Do the Europeans know better and our oil specs are addled by the EPA? Or are the Europeans stuck in the past?

My point is that there aren't any easy answers. We shouldn't switch every new Subaru to 20w-50, nor should we be running to put 0w-20 in Ford 7.3 Powerstrokes, either.

 

[4x4chevydude]

Ya I agree with having that logic statement backwards, the engines that constantly run would be more candidates to use a thicker oil since that when the "thinner" oil will supposedly break down. For short cold starts the thinnest oil out there is better. A soccer mom starting the car to drive the kid to the bus stop should not use 15 40 because on a cold winter day the oil by the time she gets back to the drive will still be thick like molasses versus a 0w20. If they tested 20w oil in taxis and police cruisers and it held up I will take my chances. Also if it doesnt hurt the motor and saves a little MPG then why not as long as it RECCOMENDED. I would not use 0w20 in my truck which is an old 350 with 140k but in my Hyundai I see no reason not to.

 

[Eddie]

I find it absolutely amazing that we have so many self-appointed oil and engine experts on this site ). I'm reasonably sure that Subaru engineers have put 10s of thousands of test hours on their engines before making recommendations. In fact, Subaru doesn't make it a recommendation but, a REQUIREMENT that 0w20 be used in this engine. I would just use a major brand 0w20, follow the OCI recommended by the factory and enjoy my vehicle, sleeping well, knowing the fact that the factory knows more than I.

 

[subiedriver]

I have an '04 Subie 2.5, I've always run Mobil 1 HM oils in it, 5w-30 and 10w-30. This motor likes the thicker oils, reduces the pistol slap. The 5w-30 HM still has excellent cold flow properties for the winter, but the HTHS is higher than the non HM oil.

 

[tig1]

I used M1 5-20 in 1978 in a Dodge truck with the slant 6 engine. Only noticable differance from the 40wt that was recomemded was a little more oil consumption. If you engine calls for a 0-20 then use it.

 

[Thermo1223]

I motor oil can't reduce piston slap, the dynamics of the oil absorbing some of that sound just means you can't hear it anymore.

No oil can stop a large physical problem like that. As far as it liking thicker oils, well when I ran Rotella T6 it was smooth mind you but there was a noticeable difference in topend power and response. It felt as if it was dragging at some point. I should plumb in my oil temp gauge already.

Debating on going back to AFE 0w30 for the next oil but I also need to replace the radiator first.

 

[4x4chevydude]

Subie...you better watch out if your car is pistol slapping you can get arrested for carrying the pistol in your car.

 

[subiedriver]

Lol, I meant "piston slap". The car has 123,000 miles on it, these cars are known to be "slappers". Anyway, I think the M1 HM 5w-30 is the ideal winter oil and I really like M1 HM 10w-30 in summer. The motor is responsive, very little consumption, seems to be the ideal viscosity.

 

[cavitating]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I find it absolutely amazing that we have so many self-appointed oil and engine experts on this site ). I'm reasonably sure that Subaru engineers have put 10s of thousands of test hours on their engines before making recommendations. In fact, Subaru doesn't make it a recommendation but, a REQUIREMENT that 0w20 be used in this engine. I would just use a major brand 0w20, follow the OCI recommended by the factory and enjoy my vehicle, sleeping well, knowing the fact that the factory knows more than I.


I agree and I could not have said it better myself. Why do engineers waste time studying and doing research when all they have to do is ask these self appointed lubrication experts.

 

[Rand]

I think 0w20 is fine and thats what I'm using in mine,
the manual is very ambiguous.
on one page it says 0w20 required

and on the next it tells you what other oils you can use and for towing etc.

Basically my take was unless you are towing in death valley 0w20 is good for any occasion. (on the new fb25)

 

[JOD]

I feel pretty badly that you asked a simple question, and ended up having to read a lot of drivel, much of it incorrect and based on completely unsound logic...

If you're looking for an oil recommendation, I think your bests bets would be Toyota's 0W20, Eneos' 0W20 and M1 0W20, probably in that order. I haven't seen a VOA on Subaru's 0W20, so I really have no opinion. I don't think you'll get a 'bad' 0W20 oil. By definition, they're all pretty good. That said, if you can find the Toyota 0W20, at a reasonable price, that what I'd use (and am using in my Ford). I've found it locally for around $5.00 a quart.

 

[lopek77]

Originally Posted By: badnews
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
Originally Posted By: webfors
Subaru engines will run on anything, including the new FB. I would use a good synthetic 30 weight.


And you suggest ignoring the factory spec because?


And we are off ---

what factory spec ?
American or European ( *Europe* where the oils are frankly better and oil is taken a bit more serious than here )

If you want to know what oil is the best for you vehicle check what European specs are for that vehicle -- and before the brainless suggest that the vehicle is made different let me assure you it isn't


* a lot of vehicles in the USA are factory recommended for 20 weight where in Europe they are 30 weight recommended -- I'd say go with the 30 weight oils - they are better for engines


Hard to trust most of the conversations, especially without knowing who is behind and with what experience.
First of all, engine won't brake in 3000 or 50000 miles just because oil type...
Second thing is that subaru stopped selling 2.5 engine in europe because its not clean for Euro 5 norm.
Another thing is that cars engine, at least most of them, can run without oil change for 100000 miles or even more. Many companies make tests which ignores what maintenance requirements are....

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: lopek77

Hard to trust most of the conversations, especially without knowing who is behind and with what experience.
First of all, engine won't brake in 3000 or 50000 miles just because oil type...
Second thing is that subaru stopped selling 2.5 engine in europe because its not clean for Euro 5 norm.
Another thing is that cars engine, at least most of them, can run without oil change for 100000 miles or even more. Many companies make tests which ignores what maintenance requirements are....


esp since you are talking about a different engine than the OP has.

This is a brand new FB25 not the EJ25

there has been alot of replies with reference previous years of subaru forester and not this one.

There isn't even a correct aftermarket oil filter for this engine. They all spec the one from the EJ25 which is not correct.

 

[lopek77]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: lopek77

Hard to trust most of the conversations, especially without knowing who is behind and with what experience.
First of all, engine won't brake in 3000 or 50000 miles just because oil type...
Second thing is that subaru stopped selling 2.5 engine in europe because its not clean for Euro 5 norm.
Another thing is that cars engine, at least most of them, can run without oil change for 100000 miles or even more. Many companies make tests which ignores what maintenance requirements are....


esp since you are talking about a different engine than the OP has.

This is a brand new FB25 not the EJ25

there has been alot of replies with reference previous years of subaru forester and not this one.

There isn't even a correct aftermarket oil filter for this engine. They all spec the one from the EJ25 which is not correct.


Subaru DOESN'T sell this engine ( I'm talking about newest one ) in Europe...and this engine was not tested enough to make sure its up to Subaru standards. Also, use of 0w20 oil is for better gas mileage than anything else.

 

[Brons2]

My gosh, the Luddites are out in full force.

Use the manufacturer specified oil for the warranty period. If it doesn't seem to cause any consumption problems during the warranty period, keep using it. If it does cause consumption, once the warranty is up try a thicker oil and do an oil analysis to make sure it's ok.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
My gosh, the Luddites are out in full force.

Yea..for sure. I suppose if I had the new FB25 engine I would hedge my bet and put a couple quarts of 5W-30 in the mix. Probably un-necessary since the EJ engine chews the 5W-30 down to 20 wt territory.

 

[Rand]

subaru barely sells it in the US also.
Its only in the forester.
In the next few years its going to get more variable cam timing(intake and exhaust) etc and DI. I expect it will make it back to europe then and also into more models.

I just wish we had a diesel option here hello 45mpg highway.

I dont think it really matters what Oil you use in it. There is a supplementary section that says you can use 5w30 5w40

I'd just recommend you use syn oil.

I ran the FF to 1200miles put g-oil in it until 3k.(half of that was towing a boat around canada)
and now have m1 0w20 in there.

with the m1 I have gotten almost an 8% fuel economy improvement in short tripping vs G-oil. Mainly the 7.5miles one way to work. Its been in the 60F's to 90F's for the most part.

Highway its harder to tell as most of my highway only tanks have a utility trailer with a JD318 or a boat trailer with a 14ft sea nymph on it.

M1 seems to be about .5 to 1mpg better in limited testing.(1000mile sample with g-oil) 3 150mile trips with m1 Which you would expect since the limiting factor is the huge wind sail behind the vehicle.

The utility trailer with a tractor and folding gate is less aerodynamic than your average house.. the boat is better at 55-65mph by far.