Oil for flat tappet musclecar motor

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ucdcrush

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I am looking for an oil to run in a 440 mopar with flat tappet hydraulic cam with somewhat stiff single valve springs.

Based on limited understanding of all that would make an oil a good choice for this kind of motor, I have found two commonly available, affordable oils and would like to get your input on them. I think I understand that zinc and phosphorous should be high, but I do not know the effects of the difference in calcium, magnesium, boron and moly between these two oils. In a gas engine with no smog concerns or cat converters, would the difference in these make the NAPA oil, even with it's higher zinc and phosphorous, not as good (in terms of wear protection of cam lobes) as Delo 400 le?

These numbers are pulled from the TDR article:
2256299763_c5a7e7c6dc_o.jpg


Thanks for any input!
Dave
 
both would be Ok boron and moly replace the zn and P when they are reduced stick to a "diesel" rated oil meaning the "C" rating comes first on the label as in CI-4/SL or CJ-4/SM.
bruce
 
That NAPA stuff is supposed to be made by Valvoline, so it should work pretty well. I'd imagine anything with a CI-4+ rating should certainly handle your valvetrain concerns.

You could also check over in the VOA section here to get an idea of what oils are out there that have the recommended 11-1200 PPM (I saw that number on the 'net so it must be true
whistle.gif
) or more of zinc and phosphorous required to prevent cam/lifter wear.

In my brother's Boss 351 Mustang, which has a pretty nasty cam and triple valve springs, we've used either J-D (yeah, I know, tractor oil) 15-40 or M1 15-50 Red Cap (the older version) with no problems. Of course, one of the big issues with those type cars is they're run so sparingly, I doubt he puts 100 miles on it in a year - it spends most of its life in the garage under a cover, that you can't tell if you're getting unusual wear or not.
 
There is another part to this flat tappet oil problem. When our shop rebuilds such an engine we have to order 40 or 50 lifters to get 16 good ones. Our last supplier went out of business last year do to competition from China and Mexico. It's not that China and Mexico can not build good lifters it's that American distributors order the junk. We are looking at a new supplier in Mexico and are willing to pay the price for good quality but he is receiving too many orders for junk and his profit margins are so high that he is slow in delivery to us because we represent less than 1% of his business.
 
Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
There is another part to this flat tappet oil problem. When our shop rebuilds such an engine we have to order 40 or 50 lifters to get 16 good ones. Our last supplier went out of business last year do to competition from China and Mexico. It's not that China and Mexico can not build good lifters it's that American distributors order the junk. ...

frown.gif
frown.gif

That's the same thing I read in a thread over at the Ford site.
frown.gif
The one guy said some of the lifters he's seen are actually concave, and others must have been "polished" with 60 grit sandpaper!!
The Chi-coms are pretty smooth - lead based paint on kids' toys, tainted pet food, now, defective lifters, what's next, defective underwear or something?!?! We'll be an easy takeover mark for 'em fer sure!!
crazy2.gif

Oops. Got a bit off track there. In any event, I think that same guy said the ones Comp Cams and maybe Crane use, are still US made. Where do they get 'em from?
 
Originally Posted By: ucdcrush
I am looking for an oil to run in a 440 mopar with flat tappet hydraulic cam with somewhat stiff single valve springs.
Based on limited understanding of all that would make an oil a good choice for this kind of motor, I have found two commonly available, affordable oils and would like to get your input on them.
Thanks for any input!

Those TDR specs are for the NAPA 15w-40 CI-4+ version which has been replaced by the new CJ-4 grade. Unless you find some old stock the CJ-4 15w-40 specs will be in the same neighboorhood as the Low Emisson Chevron Delo.
Now, you may get lucky and find a NAPA store that has a 5 gal pail of older CI-4+ grade, if so grab it.

If not, Castrol 15w-40 GTX Diesel, (not Tection), is still CI-4 grade and claims a Zinc level of 1300+ ppm. Also, I would consider Shell Rotella straight 30 wt., (1200 ppm zinc and no VI improvers).
Another option is full synthetic Mobil 1 15w-50 which also claims a 1300+ ppm zinc content and is recommended for older high perfomance flat tappet engines. Plus, it's a good deal at $21.97 for a 5 qt. jug at Walmart.
 
Darn, didn't realize that.

I just bought 4 quarts from NAPA (they didn't have the gallon) of 15w40 univeral fleet that is CI-4. He was going to order some of the gallon containers, but I don't know if they will be CI or CJ.

Back to CJ, doesn't the Delo CJ-4 look like enough for a flat tappet cam (perhaps with an additive to raise the levels to mid 1300s for zinc)?

I might very well go with the mobil 1 in the future, I only have a couple hours on my 440 so far and want to run it in a bit better before switching to synthetic.
 
Most all the VOA and UOA I've seen show that Delo 400 LE 15W40 has 1300 or more zinc ppm, plus it has moly where Rotella doesn't.
 
Originally Posted By: ucdcrush
I am looking for an oil to run in a 440 mopar with flat tappet hydraulic cam with somewhat stiff single valve springs.

Based on limited understanding of all that would make an oil a good choice for this kind of motor, I have found two commonly available, affordable oils and would like to get your input on them. I think I understand that zinc and phosphorous should be high, but I do not know the effects of the difference in calcium, magnesium, boron and moly between these two oils. In a gas engine with no smog concerns or cat converters, would the difference in these make the NAPA oil, even with it's higher zinc and phosphorous, not as good (in terms of wear protection of cam lobes) as Delo 400 le?

These numbers are pulled from the TDR article:
2256299763_c5a7e7c6dc_o.jpg


Thanks for any input!
Dave



Those numbers for Delo 400 LE are out- the boron has skyrocketed to over 300 ppm and moly has been dropped to about 100 or slightly less
 
Originally Posted By: ucdcrush
Thank you guys. The info and links were very informative. I'll go with the NAPA stuff.

Dave

Anticipating a temporary stock shortage of CI-4+, I cleaned out the NAPA, a real bargain!, and some old stock Delvac at a tractor store.

As you can see from the paper, you will see that CJ-4 is not what you want in this case. However, there is a trend to create "vintage" CI-4+ for all the fleet operators who were unhappy. Check out the papers I noted above, I just added 4 new "oils" that meet the old specs.
 
Originally Posted By: 99
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0802_pontiac_performance_engine_oil/index.html


Nice article. Thanks!
 
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