Motorcraft Diesel 5w-40 Full Synthetic in flat tappet engine?

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Dentside Garry

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Dec 21, 2024
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Howdy people. This past spring I built a 1977 Ford 400 and installed Comp Cams 268H camshaft in it. I want to run a 5w-40 oil in it so it'll lubricate better on cold starts but also has characteristics of a 40 weight oil at operating temperature. There are no oils thinner than 10W-30 that are advertised as containing "high zinc" so I have to look into Diesel oils. Since I work at a Ford dealership and I get discounts and have access to Motorcraft parts and oils Im curious about the Motorcraft diesel oils. Does Motorcraft's Diesel 5W-40 Full Synthetic oil have enough zinc for flat tappet cams or will the detergents be too much for the zinc to perform? FYI, I'm specifically asking about this oil, not Rotella or any other diesel oils.
 
You work at a Ford Dealership! I have already swallowed 8 Coors Banquest Beers.
This beer is so much better than Coors Light.

Where are you from Dennis?
 
Dentside Garry said:
Howdy people. This past spring I built a 1977 Ford 400 and installed Comp Cams 268H camshaft in it. I want to run a 5w-40 oil in it so it'll lubricate better on cold starts but also has characteristics of a 40 weight oil at operating temperature. There are no oils thinner than 10W-30 that are advertised as containing "high zinc" so I have to look into Diesel oils. Since I work at a Ford dealership and I get discounts and have access to Motorcraft parts and oils Im curious about the Motorcraft diesel oils. Does Motorcraft's Diesel 5W-40 Full Synthetic oil have enough zinc for flat tappet cams or will the detergents be too much for the zinc to perform? FYI, I'm
specifically asking about this oil, not Rotella or any other diesel oils.
Click to expand...
Take a look around at this list of tested CK-4 HDEO oils.
fantastic

Thread 'VOA Diesel Oil Database'

I stumbled across @himemsys thread that combined a bunch of PCMO VOA in one spreadsheet (You can find that sheet linked below). I figured it was such a great idea that I decided to also put one together but with HDEO (Diesel Oil).

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/voa-database.360118/#post-6244004

I created a line that adds up the Additive Package in the oil. This is displayed with the most additives towards the top, to the least additives at the bottom. This line is labeled "Add Pack". It is not listed in alphabetical order. On the bottom left side of the sheet...
  • Like
 
Because of the larger lifter diameter, .875” vs .843” and larger camshaft core diameter, Ford engines are easier on camshafts than small block and big block Chevrolets.
Nevertheless, an engine oil with P1200 is enough.
For FT applications, I like a high friction engine oil such as the ones approved for wet clutch for traction to keep the lifters spinning.
Due to temporary shear, a VII containing engine oil will lose viscosity between the spinning lifters and camshaft lobes.
 
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userfriendly said:
Because of the larger lifter diameter, .875” vs .843” and larger camshaft core diameter, Ford engines are easier on camshafts than small block and big block Chevrolets.
Nevertheless, an engine oil with P1200 is enough.
For FT applications, I like a high friction engine oil such as the ones approved for wet clutch for traction to keep the lifters spinning.
Due to temporary shear, a VII containing engine oil will lose viscosity between the spinning lifters and camshaft lobes.
Click to expand...
I've seen only a few Black Stone Lab tests on this oil and it pretty consistently has above 1200 ppm of zinc and 1150 ppm of phosphorus. The problem is because it's a diesel oil, the detergents could potentially wipe the zinc off the cam lobes. I ran the 10w-30 version of this oil in an old 400 Ford that had an RV cam from the 80s or 90s and the engine didn't care. With these new cams though you have to be pretty cautious.
 
The Ford Cleveland, Boss and M series use the same valve springs as the BBFs and BBCs, which have a higher seat and open pressure than the small blocks.
For this reason I would avoid engine oils loaded with VIIs that lose viscosity between the spinning lifters and cam lobes from temporary shear.
As far as the AW additive package competing for surface with the detergents and modern cam metallurgy is somehow inferior to old school, you’re on your own.
 
1200 ppm of phosphorus is a lot, even for an HDEO 5w40. The PDS usually lists zinc by weight, but the P is usually 100-200 ppm less than Zinc. Most 5w40 HDEOs have P of 1000 or less.

A used oil analysis on Motorcraft 5w40 from 2023 shows P at 1084 ppm.

ETA: The Motoraft bottle design is identical to P66 bottles and the oil is likely identical to Guardol XT 5w40. You can get XT from P66 distributors for around $30/gallon which may be cheaper than your discounted price.
 
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MParr said:
Then, why is it still on Kendall's website? Kendall Oil is owned by Phillips 66.
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That PDS is from 2019. It was probably an oversight.

I tried to order some SHP from my local P66 distributor in 2019 as it was listed as a clearance item @ $14/gallon. I ended up getting a case of new P66 Triton ECT as they couldn’t find the last case in their inventory and they honored the clearance price. I haven’t used it yet. I also got a 5 gallon pail of Delvac ESP 5w40 for $25 on clearance as it was old CJ-4 spec. I filed a rebate through Mobil on it as well, ended up making $25 on the deal.

Triton ECT was renamed again later to Guardol XT. It’s all the same and has identical specs as Kendall SHP.
 
CleverUserName said:
1200 ppm of phosphorus is a lot, even for an HDEO 5w40. The PDS usually lists zinc by weight, but the P is usually 100-200 ppm less than Zinc. Most 5w40 HDEOs have P of 1000 or less.

A used oil analysis on Motorcraft 5w40 from 2023 shows P at 1084 ppm.

ETA: The Motoraft bottle design is identical to P66 bottles and the oil is likely identical to Guardol XT 5w40. You can get XT from P66 distributors for around $30/gallon which may be cheaper than your discounted price.
Click to expand...

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1735563-bad-oil-report-with-motorcraft-5w40-synthetic.html

I'm pretty sure Blackstone measures Zinc by PPM. In the link above, somebody sent a used oil sample out of their 7.3 PowerStroke to Blackstone Laboratories and the test shows the "Universal Averages" for zinc at 1267. Yes I see the title says "bad oil report" but I'm pretty certain that it has more to do with the engine the oil came out of.

If the 5W-40 will work, I'm going to buy the Motorcraft oil not just because I have a discount but there's also no wait time to acquire it. Since I work at a dealership, that pretty much always has it in stock, it's available for me at any time. I'm kind of tired of ordering oil and I don't know anyone where I live that distributes P66.
 
Valvoline VR1 would be a good choice with a high lift cam though it only comes in 10w-30 or 20w-50. If your 400 has sufficient hot oil pressure, I would be very comfortable with 10w-30 in that engine.
 
CleverUserName said:
That PDS is from 2019. It was probably an oversight.

I tried to order some SHP from my local P66 distributor in 2019 as it was listed as a clearance item @ $14/gallon. I ended up getting a case of new P66 Triton ECT as they couldn’t find the last case in their inventory and they honored the clearance price. I haven’t used it yet. I also got a 5 gallon pail of Delvac ESP 5w40 for $25 on clearance as it was old CJ-4 spec. I filed a rebate through Mobil on it as well, ended up making $25 on the deal.

Triton ECT was renamed again later to Guardol XT. It’s all the same and has identical specs as Kendall SHP.
Click to expand...
You are correct about the Guardol XT being very similar. The data sheet looks the same as the Kendall SHP. Petroleum Service Company only carries the Guardol XT in bulk. They are only carrying Kendall automobile and light truck oils. The Motorcraft 5W40 Synthetic is likely the same stuff.
 
ripcord said:
Valvoline VR1 would be a good choice with a high lift cam though it only comes in 10w-30 or 20w-50. If your 400 has sufficient hot oil pressure, I would be very comfortable with 10w-30 in that engine.
Click to expand...
Right now I'm running Amsoil's Zrod 10w-30, which has been VERY good. I ran VR1 not too long after I broke-in the engine and didn't really have any problems. If I don't go with MC 5w-40 I'm goanna stick with one of those two oils.
 
Dentside Garry said:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1735563-bad-oil-report-with-motorcraft-5w40-synthetic.html

I'm pretty sure Blackstone measures Zinc by PPM. In the link above, somebody sent a used oil sample out of their 7.3 PowerStroke to Blackstone Laboratories and the test shows the "Universal Averages" for zinc at 1267. Yes I see the title says "bad oil report" but I'm pretty certain that it has more to do with the engine the oil came out of.

If the 5W-40 will work, I'm going to buy the Motorcraft oil not just because I have a discount but there's also no wait time to acquire it. Since I work at a dealership, that pretty much always has it in stock, it's available for me at any time. I'm kind of tired of ordering oil and I don't know anyone where I live that distributes P66.
Click to expand...
Oil analysis metallic additives are always in PPM.

Zinc is an antioxidant. Phosphorus is the anti-wear element that will protect your camshaft. Zinc is combined with Phosphorus in the anti-wear additive called ZDDP.

The P (phosphorus) of Motorcraft was 1084 PPM in that oil report. Likely the same for Guardol XT. This is higher than most HD oils, you won’t find anything higher unless you try a CI-4+ oil, these are high ash diesel oils which typically have 1400+ of Zinc and 1200+ PPM of P along with a boatload of calcium.

If you want 1200 ppm of P you can get some ZDDP booster from Redline and add it to the Motorcraft 5w40 to raise it another 120 ppm to 1200. Do the math and follow the directions on the bottle. Remember, it will also add zinc.

https://www.redlineoil.com/engine-oil-break-in-additive
 
CleverUserName said:
Oil analysis metallic additives are always in PPM.

Zinc is an antioxidant. Phosphorus is the anti-wear element that will protect your camshaft. Zinc is combined with Phosphorus in the anti-wear additive called ZDDP.

The P (phosphorus) of Motorcraft was 1084 PPM in that oil report. Likely the same for Guardol XT. This is higher than most HD oils, you won’t find anything higher unless you try a CI-4+ oil, these are high ash diesel oils which typically have 1400+ of Zinc and 1200+ PPM of P along with a boatload of calcium.

If you want 1200 ppm of P you can get some ZDDP booster from Redline and add it to the Motorcraft 5w40 to raise it another 120 ppm to 1200. Do the math and follow the directions on the bottle. Remember, it will also add zinc.

https://www.redlineoil.com/engine-oil-break-in-additive
Click to expand...
I've always been told "if you need to add an additive to your oil, you're not running the right oil", so I'd prefer to stick with my Amsoil Zrod 10W-30.
 
fantastic said:
Take a look around at this list of tested CK-4 HDEO oils.
fantastic

Thread 'VOA Diesel Oil Database'

I stumbled across @himemsys thread that combined a bunch of PCMO VOA in one spreadsheet (You can find that sheet linked below). I figured it was such a great idea that I decided to also put one together but with HDEO (Diesel Oil).

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/voa-database.360118/#post-6244004

I created a line that adds up the Additive Package in the oil. This is displayed with the most additives towards the top, to the least additives at the bottom. This line is labeled "Add Pack". It is not listed in alphabetical order. On the bottom left side of the sheet...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Last I checked, ford only recommended their motorcraft oil and said ck-4 was inadequate for whatever reason. That was a while ago though. I'm not sure what their stance is now on it.
 
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